Stay Off My Property!

You are forgiven, but do come by sometime! You will not be orbited...we prommise!!!!

there is no extreme "polarized positions". you just refuse to accept the fact that the my land my rules rule does not fit into your i should be able to go and do anywhere and anything in SL. using your argument, i should be able to traipse through your RL hme any darn time i chose, right?



i beg to differ. your posts contradict each other so much, one wonders if you bother to read what you post previously. and as for you coming onto my or anyones land, yeah i'd ban you. not because i "fear" , what you may do to my "stuff", but because you are no better than an internet bully, making people bend to your will because they have the audacity to do with their land what they see fit.

whether you wishto believe it or not, Kitty is right,on the parcel i live two neighbors on either side of me have grouped accessed their land, can i see the banlines? only if i go right up to the edge of THEIR property. she is also correct in the view that as long as you don't build right up to the edge of your property, you shouldn't see the banlines.


sorry, missed that. does not change my opinion however. unless the estate you live on has clear cut covenants regarding the use of banlines or orbs, what your neighbor does on their land is not your business, unless they are in clear violation of the ToS, for example, your neighbor was perfectly within their rights to put up the banline around their property, you however violated the ToS when you countered with your "wall of do what i say".



yet that is exactly what you are doing. re-read your posts.

Okay--but you did say nazzi at first. That's what got me riled up. And how do you know what the german recordings were saying? Hypothetically, if other visitors to your land heard it, how would that reflect on you?

You got me there...I am not sure how they would view it, or how it would reflect on me...my (reputation was ruined long time ago) and it is only by association with Claire that it is in any sort of repair.
I did what I thought was the most logical and peaceable solution possible never the less. And I feel good about what I did. I suppose I would even UN-restrict the gent if he showed up without all the goose stepping.

My whole point in even posting this small incident is this:

I feel there are a few grey area situations where the person banned may have been lumped into a stereotypical melting pot of ‘possible griefers' (even though they did not do anything) and the person or group who banned them gave them such a horrible experience that they went over the edge and eventually became the griefer they were accused of being.

I can remember one incident where I Accidentally TP’ed to the wrong location and was screamed at and banned...wrong place at the wrong time, no real fault of my own, just SL decided to go nuts at the time.

I like to look at each and every situation with an open mind, and stand back and look at it from an observers eyes, rather than from the eyes of the 'authority'

True humility is best defined as: knowing exactly how much power one has, yet not looking for the opportunity to use it.

Then why go to the trouble of creating the nasty message texture and applying it? You could have easily given him a nicer view on his side. Of course, as you say, it's your right to do as you please.

But why for the love of Pete do you go out of your way to be nasty to people? It's so much easier to be nice. Try it sometime. Perhaps you'll be happier. Because from what I see you are a very unhappy person.

And excuse me....you did NOT fully accept that he could have removed them.. You were griefing him, pure and simple.

Some people like privacy and dont want people to be sitting in their homes.
You cant do anything but sit or use poseballs in someone else's home. But some people like the feel a bit of privacy. One of my best friend's has a security device that ejects people out that are not allowed in her home. She doenst want to come on and find people sitting in her house.

What I dont like is the ban fences. Some sims dont even allow those. Because when I was an explorer, I would hit many of those when I was flying around. Would have to fly up over them.

LL has since made the banlines even lower so that those who liek to fly can do so without running into them. i do believe its around 50m(?) now?

I left about 10m on either side barren, mostly because it puts all of the areas on my land I actually frequently use out of anyone's chat range.

Since there's nothing there, I also have no need to ever go or be there and I'm entirely oblvious to whether a neighbour has banlines up or not. I'm sure they're visible on that stretch, but when it comes to the garden or looking out the window, they're just not visible.

People on smaller parcels have to put up with plenty more problems than just banlines: chances are good they're in the neighbour's chat range if it's that small, light/particles bleeding through, noisy scripts, etc. "Banlines" certainly aren't the issue they have to deal with (that doesn't make the visual impact a non-issue, just that it's far from the only issue, or even the most important one).

It's ironic that your solution to an ugly build is something that annoys you, annoys the neighbour, takes up prims, is noticable everywhere on the plot and will always look ugly (compared to the natural view). Even a visible ban line isn't as ugly as textured screens or an akward line of 20m tall trees.

/me sighs happily at the REAL face of the user base ...

Maggie, your post is so wrong-headed in the light of a clear written record that one has to assume one of
1) You genuinely have great problem with comprehending what you read
or
2) You are deliberately trolling




Wrong.
See the end of this post.



Your post proved my point that there is a collection of people here who are determined not to engage in facts.
I assert that ban lines are visible up to 8 metres into a neighbour's parcel.
You refuse to engage with that. You use term like "right up to". You are deliberately avoiding
I challenge you to post here your measurement of ban line visibility *in metres*.
No cheating now. It can vary with the angle of view. What distance in metres do you measure when looking straight at a ban lines boundary?




You claim to have read my posts.
I challenge you to quote me as asserting such a thing.
Go find the posts. Publish them here.
I'm calling you out on this one.


I have very clearly and specifically stated on this and other threads that I fully support access restrictions/control. My only issue has been with the manner in which this is implemented.

Go ahead! Knock yourself out!
Find a post where I say the opposite.

Well lucky you being able to have a 10 metre barren strip around your boundaries.
Try that on a 512 or 1024.

You invalidate your arguments regarding the impact of ban lines as you are not faced with them.
Heres a little challenge for you. You owe it to yourself to check it out. I don't care if you do it or not, but if you have any self-respect at all or regard for people in general you might like to do it.

Subdivide out a 512 on one of you barren boundaries that has ban lines on the boundary.
Put your self in the boots of someone who has bought that and is going to build a house/garden.
By golly you'll be very concious of those lines.
Spend some time in the plot. Imagine it as your sole SL base.





Two things:
1) I have never said that my solution to an ugly build is the kind of screen that you seem to be talking about.
What I did say that ugly happens and that the effects of one *could* be softened with a scattering of textured prims.

2) What I did say was that if the issue was one of ban lines as opposed to ugly build then the *only* way to screen ban lines is a solid textureed rectangular screen. That's a technical fact.



What makes you so sure?
You don't know. You have a 10metre wide barren strip around your boundary. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be right up against ban lines all the time you are on your parcel. Yet you post here as if you have.


It is true that such things can be a matter of opinion.
However, my opinion is informed by a reality of dealing with ban lines on the boundary of a small parcel.
Your opinion is not so informed.
Try it as an exercise. Do a build in a 512 subdivision with ban lines on the boundary. Invite us around to inspect and discuss. Let's party!!

ok Sling here it is:



yet you call me a troll for having just that, a contrary opinion. hypocrisy points? +20
and well we know what they say about assumptions don't we? my post is so "wrong-headed" in the fact that there may be glimmers of truth in them that you recognize but refuse to accept for some reason. veiled insults wont change that either. yes to you i'm a troll, big surprise. wonder what i would be if i agreed with you and all your bullying tactics?

You really do have comprehension problems.

My issue with your posting is NOT that it is contrary.
My issue with it is that it is based on a fantasy that you have created. You persist in attributing to me opinions that I have never expressed.
It does not matter if it is contrary. It only matters if it is not based on reality, and your assertions are not based on reality.
Your accusation of hypocrisy is completely crazy.


Straw man arguments are a well known dishonesty in debate.
You are trying to make me into your straw man. It doesn't work that way. I'm actually here to point out that your premises are completely invalid. The whole point of the straw man thing is that the man does not exist.


You persist in avoiding factual information.

Where are the quotes of me asserting what you say I have asserted about access restrictions?
Come along now, you know you had a peep for them.
And you found......? Nothing to support your assertions.


Have you measured ban line visibility in metres?

Have you done anything to support any of your arguments with facts?

FFS, it's all opinion other than the fact that the damned things exist and are visible up to a point. Other facts? Some people get offended by them, others don't. Anything else about the morality, ethics, etc. is all opinion.

The entire thread summed up in about 1/2 a paragraph. Cristalle is right. Now, since this issue has been done to death, can we PLEASE move on with our lives?

QFT!

No two parcels are ever identical, but in one sim that I watch closely, two pretty comparable 512s went up for sale about the same time, one with a neighbor that has banlines up, one without. The one without sold to a newcomer for right at L$8K; the one with banlines is still sitting at L$5750.

And when you think about it, presented with a hypothetical choice of two small parcels, otherwise identical except for neighboring banlines, which would one choose? How much of a premium would one be willing to pay? I was frankly surprised at the almost 40% premium that seems to have been commanded by absence of banlines in this case, but... it's surely worth something, especially for the popular smaller parcels.

So, I'm not saying that one shouldn't use banlines. I'm just saying that one shouldn't be too surprised if one's neighbor isn't very happy to see them: just objectively, the lines take some L$s off the value of their property.

Yes. It is very tedious.
However I for one can put up with the tedium as the process of trying to get facts rather than a fog of misdirection has become a sort of fascination.


Let's just leave it open for

1) Maggie to come back with quotes of me asserting that I should be able to go anywhere do anything. These would show me contradicting myself when I assert that I support access restriction. Bring it on Maggie!!

2) Kitty (apologies for having "Lindal" in the first shot) to report on her adventures of living in a 512 beside a set of ban lines.
How did the build in a 16 metres wide plot go after she left a barren 10 metre wide strip at the boundary?

That was Kitty, not Lindal. You're so angry that you're getting people mixed up. Don't get mad at me for telling you this, but all this anger can't be healthy for you. It's an issue that isn't going to be resolved. You can make all the noise you want and people are going to use ban lines, security orbs or whatever they have available. They can yell about their rights all they want and you will never be convinced that they are doing the "right thing".

It's just not going to be fixed. When you can't fix something, then it's time to accept it and move on to something you can fix.

I prefer the one with banlines, that's extra security for me. Less traffic flying to your home. I remember I bought 15,000 sqm of land in the corner of a region. The region connecting had 2 people on access list, so no one was allowed. Nothing was on the sim, so it was a beautiful flat green football field view. the person on another side was cool. Paid him to do some building for me. on the other side was a tatoo store (on a 512) and he was cool. Both had access to my land. I blocked access for everyone else and didn't have to worry about cleaning up too much except the occasional helicopter abandoned in the air.

Banlines don't bother me one bit. As a matter of fact, I prefer to be banned so when I build a skybox, I can see where the property line starts/ends Helpful when building.

Right, but that's 30 times as large as the most popular size of Mainland parcel, where the presence of banlines is presumably a lot more intrusive. But to each his own; I let my tenants blacklist ban whomever they wish on their parcels (since they're all skyboxes, whitelist restrictions don't mean anything), and they can have ToS-compliant security devices if they want (though I don't think any of them do).

To be honest, I really couldn't imagine doing much of anything at ground level on a 512 anyway, for all kinds of reasons. But I'm pretty sure the reality of the market is very different from that.

I little bit of anger now and then tones up the heart muscles
Adrenalin can be your friend!
Nope! I;m not mad at you.


Perhaps you misunderstand the cause of my little rant.
I'm angry at the repeated crazy attribution to me of opinions that are opposite to those that I have clearly posted. Maybe I've been trolled and I shouldn't respond. However, that sort of 'debate' is so common that I feel that I can stamp on it every once in a while.

I am quite passionate about the effects of ban lines. I'm not permanently angry about them. I've sold off nearly all of my small parcels because I see that in the short term society is not going to change. I've taken the Kitty route - have parcels big enough that I can sacrifice the use of 7 to 8 metres around the boundary. Most of them are double-protected and all have at least one protected water boundary.
Having to junk the small parcels is more a cause of regret than anger. I had a necklace of parcels beside Linden water spread at intervals in a circle right around the central land mass of Corsica. The idea was that people would be able to complete long voyages and take advantage of a 30-prim public build allocation in each parcel to start a journey and re-rezz boats and planes if they crashed.
I just found the incidence of ban lines both in neighbouring parcels and along the sides of the protected routes to be soul destroying.

I'll still agitate about the current implementation of ban lines as the default method of access control. I'm not affected to a great extent any more, but that is not true for the majority of people trying to enjoy SL.
Ban lines speak to me of a lack of imagination on the part of LL and to a lack of generosity on the part of people who use them in preference to a cheap device.
If I can ever find the time, I'll make such a device and give it away for free.

There are JIRAs with suggestions on how ban lines can be made less generally ugly and less of a hazard for people trying to move vehicles in restricted linden space.

It is not true to say "It's just not going to be fixed."

Kitty got my rant as she came on to downplay the visual effect of ban lines. She posted that she simply didn't see them from any part of her parcel. Not a problem!!
She neglected to mention that this actually meant the she couldn't see them from any part into which she *normally went*. There's a kind of unsubtle difference there.


Good night Neverland!

snicker snicker," my I-net feelings NEVA get hurt, except when ya wink at meh!"-Notebook Turd-Munch!

the only ban eject from private property i object to was the time i got banned from the first tee of the Holi Kai Golf course (like around 10m or so) AND ONLY THERE IN alla the sims there. Some random tard said. " hello", and I said, "beat it, chump" and we trashed each others avis at the same time...right by two tards teeing up at the first tee. WELL THEY PAID FOR THE GAME so i guess i respect it...er anybodygot any Holi Kai connects? I wanna get unbanned, i wanna play the first hole