Are some people really so stupid as to expect privacy in SL?

I do not allow them on my sim at all. No one living on my sims wants them either and they all respect each others privacy, or just dont really care...

But, if I found out they people were camming into their homes and taking pictures I would eject that person from the sim. (specificly porn pics)

Privacy in a Virtual World full of Virtual Residents = THE BIG X TOP RIGHT CORNER


Need a diagram?

I must point out that I did make sure that there was nobody at home when I did take a look in her home and the first time I contacted her I asked if she "needed the ban lines up on her plot as it hindered my access to my plot" and her reply was "yes because she wanted privacy." Which on an empty plot did not make sense. It was not till a couple of days later that I discovered she had another plot.

Fair enough, Del.

I don't think you are a stalker. And, to be honest, I don't like ban lines either. But I DO think that your response was frankly insensitive and inappropriate, even if you were careful to ensure that she was not home at the time.

Surely you see how this might be disturbing or upsetting to someone? And particularly to a woman?

You still violated her right to privacy, even if in her own mind.. I wonder if this is an ARable offence? Take care..

Given the semi-rhetorical title of this thread, I wonder how the whole thing would read were we to replace the word "privacy" with the word "respect" throughout.

Just a thought ......

No-one should expect respect.

Pep (You earn it.)

Nonsense. You can LOSE respect, but everyone is entitled to it until they prove otherwise.

Yeesh, you can be grumpy ...

Everybody gets respect from me to start out with. It's not hard to earn more, it's even easier to lose it.

That!

I wondered something like this after reading your original post, Del.



Why do you feel you have a right to dictate to others what they can or cannot do on, or with, their own land? So it's a tad inconvenient. If you are trying to walk down a sidewalk and someone is in your way, do you shove them aside?



That's fair enough isn't it? She replied, gave you a reason although she did not have to, and you seem to want more. She must "justify" her disposition of her belongings to you, a total stranger.



Oh. Stop. Fail.



Oh. Stop. Super Fail.



Gee - I wonder why!!



Did you expect to be rewarded for being rude, for trespassing, and for messing with her belongings that way? Seriously??



There are many reasons someone might put a ban line around empty property. First, they may not realise that not allowing public access even creates a ban line. Second, they may realise it creates a ban line but not mind that, because after all people can fly around a lot just as easily, or teleport. Third, they may like the ban line and the visual feeling of a safety net/blanket, as someone else suggested.

Fourth, they may have gotten sick of people flying airplanes, helicopters and such over their land. Perhaps those six prims are a skybox (I've seen as low as 3 prim ones), with a chair enjoying the view, and then, buzzz.... Fifth, that six prim skybox may be their little getaway and they may wish to send the 'message' of a ban line so no one thinks it's open to the public.

Sixth, People may have been hanging out on that 'empty' lot, using it as their sandbox, drag racing, running gestures all day long, poofing particles, and generally being a nuisance. Seventh, this is one Scylla has mentioned a few times but you have not seemed to understand, yet - this person may be or have been, the victim of stalking in RL and/or SL and wants it to stop.

Enough for you?

I'd much rather bounce off a ban line than get sent home by an orb I had no idea was there, or where it is coming from so I could avoid it. I say that all the time.

I can relate to some of the stories here and when I was a newer landowner I had a ban line AND an orb for some of the reasons above. At this point, if I see a newbie toddling across my land I usually just laugh - or even offer to help them if they need some help. But, I do get irritated if my scripts tell me someone's been sleepin' in my bed.

I didn't put up ban lines or an orb after I got new land, I took out the house that had those, but now some neighbors have ban lines. It is their choice. As for the house that gets hit by 'visitors' a lot, well I put a land description saying, you can enjoy the outer land, please do not go IN the house unless prior invited. It has cut way down on trespassing.

Depends, are they standing on a Segway?

The original scenario is made of fail. The neighbor for using ban lines, and the OP for being creepy.

we are all a bit creepy, yes?

No.



Is that the Silicon Valley version of cow tipping?

The funny thing about your example is that this is -EXACTY- what banlines -encourage-.

If you see banlines, you want to know why.

I for one almost always end up camming in and clicking on things when I encounter property with banlines. I'm always eager to find out just why those people are trying to keep me out, and what they might be hiding there.

On the other hand, if I see something that looks like its private (a home), but it has no banlines, I ignore it and move on, or get out of it quickly if I got into it by accident (like yesterday when I lagged so hard while moving that when I got control again I found myself 10 Sims north standing on a telephone wire like some kind of kitty-pigeon.


Ie: if you put up banlines you become an "attractive nuisance" - people are offended and want to find out what is going on. If you don't put them up, but have nothing on display out front asking people to come in, you gain privacy by "flying below the radar."

- That's how you get privacy in SL. Don't attract invasions, and make it obvious the place isn't meant for the public, but don't force them out. People will find they have no reason to want to invade your privacy if you give them no reason.

No-one is 'entitled' to anything in this life, without earning it.

Pep (and those that believe you are will lose out to those that recognise the truth.)

Hee. Wish I could see a pic of that.



My experience tells me otherwise.

For instance my rental was a busier thoroughfare than Piccadilly Circus and all it had was a few sticks of furniture. Nothing spicy, and no ban lines.

--

Pep - I'm curious - what is respect mean for you, in actions? I'm thinking you differentiate between respect and politeness (in real life, I'm talking about.)

A little late as I usually am but wanted to throw in my two cents....

SL by it's very nature is primarily a "social" world for people to explore and interact. On the other hand, it's evolved way past being just a chat room. There are a lot of things to do in public, and in solitary, including building up your own little world on your land and getting lost in it. There are also times when you only want to interact with people you know. It may seem "stupid" that someone would want privacy in a social world, but for some people there are times when they want limited or no social interaction, and by the nature of SL there are things you can do that don't require social interaction. For example, people just like to spend time in their own world by building and creating, or admiring the views from the world they've created while deep in thought. With that, it does get annoying when someone you don't know teleports in front of you out of the blue and wants to talk or even worse, they teleport in naked and start chasing you around. Privacy may be an illusion, but SL is a virtual world, and in itself an "illusion".

I think the biggest thing is just having respect for other people as you would in RL. Just because there are no consequences for going into someone elses house in SL of spying on people, it's just the right thing to do to be courteous and respectful. Unfortunately there are plenty of people who are just not mature enough to be courteous and respectful which seems to be the driving force behind restricting parcel access or putitng up security systems. I think it's also driven for some people being protective of the things they have created and just as in RL, they feel repulsed at the thought of people wandering around theor property while they are away, despite being little if anything harmful they could actually do.

You just need to understand both mindsets - those that want and expect privacy and those that assume that there is no privacy because you "can" go anywhere or cam into anywhere. People are different and feel and act differently about things, it's not people being "stupid", just people being human. "Stupid" is being hostile, or disrespectful to people. You should understand that there are a lot of newbies coming into the world every day and if someone jumps onto you land if I want to be alone or are having a private interaction with people, you can politely ask them to move on. Conversly, if someone puts up ban lines or alarm systems, you shouldn't insult them, be hostile toward them, or question their intelligence. Yes, sometimes they are just being a jerk, but usually it's because of something deeper.

From my personal perspective, I do hate ban lines as they make you feel closed in, and it makes you less happy with your own land when a neighbor restricts access to their parcel. It also tends to devalue neighboring properties. I do on the other hand occasionally use a security system when I am home and don't feel like being sociable, and if I've had a negative encounter with someone on my land may temporarily restrict access, or ban people. As a rule when exploring myself I respect residential parcels, and try to stick to actual "cities" with Linden roads to wander around. If I like a house and want to explore further, I'll ask the owner before doing anything.

Again, people have different reasons for what they do, and believe it or not everyone does not have the same feelings and beliefs as you. It's usually not stupidity, as what constitutes "stupid" is often defined by the person making that judgement. In the end it all comes down to being reasonable and respectful and understanding of why people may do what they do.

You are obviously not an advocate of the assumption of innocence until proven guilty.

So, you are routinely discourteous to people who have not yet had the opportunity to "earn" your respect? I don't for a moment believe it: your courtesy on this forum is LEGEND . And what, after all, is courtesy, if not an acknowledgment of another human's right to the basic respect that being a sentient, feeling person should entail?

I don't think you are NEARLY as sour as you pretend.

/me wonders where the hell Jig is when she is REALLY needed ...

Very well said and fair, Melody.

/me applauds.

See Clarissa's distinction between respect and politeness.

Pep (Politeness is about what *you* are; respect is about what the other person is - or isn't!)

My home is a skybox, and all routing for any kind of TP onto the land is to a spot at ground level in front of a nice welcoming Gazebo. The plot is set to no fly.

People could cam in from neighboring plots, but on the way over they're going to realize its just a home and not find much to look at. But down at ground in the Gazebo, they can sit and chat with each other, look at my garden, and enjoy my music without disturbing me.

My former neighbor had her home at ground, and sometimes just rotating my camera I would find myself having a view of her bed. Once I got that when it was occupied by her and another.

But otherwise, she had the same basic philosophy - no banline to attract people, and just a home so nobody saw a need to look further unless they were the sort asking to be muted by the SL community at large.

I use ban lines around my workshop. It's not for privacy. It's to keep people from getting between my camera and what I'm building.

But then, I don't expect privacy in SL. I do expect a certain intelligence level in people... like not letting me know they are watching me... I mean, if you're going to do a peeping tom routine, do it right!

Del, you probably shouldn't have used the word "stupid"....but it's a legitimate question.

I don't get it either. Even after reading all the responses....I still don't get it. I've never used ban lines or security systems, and generally have a pretty good conversation with whoever drops in out of the blue....one of the joys of SL. And it certainly leaves whatever island I'm living on at the time looking a heck of a lot better, and allows for a heck of a lot more enjoyment for those flying or sailing or walking by, and it's just respectful to your neighbors to NOT use them.

Since people can't "take" your virtual possessions....I don't understand the concept of having to protect those, and probably never will. And yes....am tempted to cam in and see what is so precious or lurid or risque in there, that has to be protected....it's an open invitation.

Del is not that creepy. (based on the question - I don't know Del). Many people do not understand this privacy issue thing, and think it's rather bizarre considering the venue and the whole scheme of things.

Mickey it is often more about the 'feeling.' Safety, security, and treasured isolation.

Yes it seems a paradox to want to be or 'feel' alone in a virtual world, but after all, don't most of us end up replicating our world and life in it to some extent, within SL, in a multitude of other ways?