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Why do men pay for sl sex when there're so many orgy rooms?

Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
03-05-2008 22:37
From: Colette Meiji
ITo put it more bluntly, hormonal triggers and pheromones don't get sent and received via a cable modem.


Ever thought about upgrading to the PheroModem? :P

All this talk of paying for sex or not or males do more than females don't or whatever.

You hairless apes are quite interesting to study, if a tad shallow at times. :P

..and no, before anyone asks it, I don't breed prey. :P
Ricardo Harris
Registered User
Join date: 1 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,944
03-05-2008 22:45
Mine is a male, almost 2 years old. Walks real good, likes running all over the entire house and at such a young age too. Has the cutest cold nose and is tan all over. Very territorial, a tough guy although a tiny chihuahua. Ahh, gotta love the boys, too.
Lana Tomba
Cheap,Fast or Good Pick 1
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 746
03-05-2008 22:55
and for the "family" portion of our thread:.........."HUGGLES" teach your favorite creepy crawly rug rat that they're a BIG kid now!!..."HUGGLES"...((fits children up to age 9)) and gives the parent that summer fresh scented feeling that.. "yea!!..I DON'T have to potty train my child!!... "HUGGLES".


~Lana
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Victorria Paine
Sleepless in Wherever
Join date: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,110
03-06-2008 03:12
From: Missy Malaprop
Most men, in my experience, are first attracted to physical looks (even avatars), in choosing who to pursue.


As far as I understand what he is trying to say, he's drawing a distinction between what his eyes perceive as "flesh" and what they perceive as "pixels". But my question is: how does this distinction really work in practice? I mean, we all know that these days at least most men are looking at porn on the internet (all protestations from them to the contrary notwithstanding). Yes, these are depictions of "flesh", but they are pixellated images all the same. And in many cases the pixellated images are to a significant degree electronically altered and manipulated with post-production programs so that many of them don't resemble "reality" as it was before the digital camera took its exposure. I don't see a real distinction between porn's pixellated images (which I assume that many, many men find arousing, based on their porn consumption) and the ones in SL other than the porn pixels are more realistic looking because they are based on digital photo images before they are post-produced.

This raises some obvious questions. If avatar pixels in SL were more "realistic" flesh looking like porn's computer-enhanced pixel images, would it then be acceptable for men to be aroused by them without being considered "sad"? Or is his view that all men who currently are aroused by porn's pixellated images "sad" as a result? If it's the former view, it sounds like a distinction based entirely on the *quality* of the pixellated images (rather than being on the fact that they are pixels, because both images are pixels) -- which is a much narrower viewpoint than was being peddled here, I think--, whereas if it's the latter, then I think we can rest assured that his view is that of a distinct minority among men.
Sunni Jewell
Who said so?
Join date: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 748
03-06-2008 03:23
From: Ricardo Harris
Mine is a male, almost 2 years old. Walks real good, likes running all over the entire house and at such a young age too. Has the cutest cold nose and is tan all over. Very territorial, a tough guy although a tiny chihuahua. Ahh, gotta love the boys, too.


<sigh> Now you blew it, Ricardo. My whole view of you is just gone. I just can't really dislike someone who likes dogs.

To Trout & Yosef: I love that attitude. I wish my daughter's dad felt the same way. But that's okay, I'll be the one with the shotgun when she's ready to date. Well, either me or her step-father. We've already told her she's not dating until she's married.

And, yes, I DO remember what it's like to be a teenager. That's the reason for the gun.
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Lana Tomba
Cheap,Fast or Good Pick 1
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 746
03-06-2008 04:03
From: Victorria Paine
and the ones in SL other than the porn pixels are more realistic looking because they are based on digital photo images before they are post-produced.

This raises some obvious questions. If avatar pixels in SL were more "realistic" flesh looking like porn's computer-enhanced pixel images, would it then be acceptable for men to be aroused by them without being considered "sad"? .



very well put..my point exactly about my pixelated skin being "airbrushed".

~Lana
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Marcel Flatley
Sampireun Design
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,032
03-06-2008 04:22
Though Phil said he doesn't post anymore in this thread, I sure hope he keeps reading, because I do have a message to say :-)

Phil, apparantly you do think you are very good with words. This I have seen happen on quite a few subjects. The fact that you get reactions that disagree with you, only seems to strengthen your belief in the fact you are misunderstood because they read wrong. Because you could not be the one making the mistake.
Try to take a different look upon things: If so many people disagree with you, while you are pretty sure they did not read your posts well, apparantly you failed in making yourself clear. No shame in that, with only words (and perhaps a smiley here and there) it is not easy to make a good point. Hell, even face to face it is sometimes hard :-)
Fact is, that you often seem to get misunderstood. Ergo, you fail to bring your thoughts onto virtual paper.
Again, no shame in that on itself, but the mud-fight resulting in people disagreeing, and you defending your choice of words, is a disgrace. And believe it or not, I do hold you for a much better person then that. We may disagree on views once in a while, but that is not the problem as long as at least we know exactly what the view of the other person is ;)

Then the arousing pictures/cartoons/avatars. You are entirely entitled to find that sad. As long as you do not bring it, as if it IS sad. There is quite a difference between the two.
Though my AV didn't yet participate in virtual sex, I can understand what drives people. A well formed girl avatar with a cute butt can actually look arousing. Hentai can be arousing. Erotic drawings in general can be arousing. Sometimes even more arousing then normal (real people) porn, depending on the scene unfolding. Many things can (or are allowed) only happen in drawed porn even.

So the fact that you find that part of me sad, doesn't offend me a bit. The fact you say i AM say, does. Not because of the word sad, but because of the word AM. No one is entitled to decide who or what I am, they can however have any opinion they have about me.

Hope to have made some sense (english isn't native to me), because I really do want you to understand me. You do not have to agree of course, but it would be nice to give it a good thought :-) Now I am back to the thread where you gave some valuable tips to get my parcel listed a bit better !


Greetings Marcel
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
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03-06-2008 04:26
From: Phil Deakins



I'll leave this thread with a reminder of the reasons why I am so dislikeable:-

1. I use traffic alts.

2. I defend the use of temp rezzers, and even used to sell one.

3. I think that people who get it off on animated drawings are sad.

4. I think that many SL females think much too highly of themselves, just because they are female.

5. I think it's Colette's nature is to insult people.

If I've missed any, I apologise.



Hmmmmm..... you've shown your disdain for the people who get off on animated drawings, yet you make and sell products that are used for that very purpose. Nice way to show contempt for your customers, especially from someone who claims SL is his livelihood.
Tacky, Phil. Very Tacky.
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Brenda Connolly
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03-06-2008 04:27
From: Damien1 Thorne
If you guys don't calm down I will turn this thread around and drive home. :p

Can we stop for ice cream on the way?
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Claire Silverspar
Pokes Badgers With Spoons
Join date: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 5,375
03-06-2008 04:27
*sigh*
How I wish I grew up with a daddy willing to learn how to shoot lol.

The bond between a father and her daughter is amazing...truly.
But my special bond is with my grandad. He is better than my father ever could have been and is just as protective lol. And he taught me to take most of life's annoyances with a pinch of salt. :D



I don't like Phil's generalisations, just like most people here, but I can see what he did mean by them. I don't agree, but I can understand his point.
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Lana Tomba
Cheap,Fast or Good Pick 1
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 746
03-06-2008 04:32
/me appears from behind the shadows and cloroforms Claire..dragging her off into the bushes. :p

~Lana
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Brenda Connolly
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03-06-2008 06:05
From: Claire Silverspar
*sigh*
How I wish I grew up with a daddy willing to learn how to shoot lol.

The bond between a father and her daughter is amazing...truly.
But my special bond is with my grandad. He is better than my father ever could have been and is just as protective lol. And he taught me to take most of life's annoyances with a pinch of salt. :D



I don't like Phil's generalisations, just like most people here, but I can see what he did mean by them. I don't agree, but I can understand his point.


It's true. While I love my Mom dearly, I adored my Dad. His job gave a him a schedule where he would be at home a lot of times when Mom wasn't so I would spend after school time with him. He would take me to Flushing Meadow Park to see the World's Fair Site, I loved the big globe there, or I especially loved when we would go to LaGuardia Airport to watch the planes land.He had friends who worked there so we always got to go into the "cool" areas. He'll be gone 4 years next month, and I still miss him terribly. He didn't teach me to shoot though, my brother did that.
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
03-06-2008 06:21
/me gives Brenda a hug.
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Victorria Paine
Sleepless in Wherever
Join date: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,110
03-06-2008 06:25
From: Brenda Connolly
It's true. While I love my Mom dearly, I adored my Dad. His job gave a him a scedule where he would be at home a lot of times when Mom wasn't so i would spent after school time with him. He would take me to Flushing Meadow Park to see the World's Fair Site, I loved the big globe there, or I especially loved when we would go to LaGuardia Airport to watch the planes land..


Another member of the Queens Conspiracy, I see. We'll take over the world someday, I swear.

Nice to hear of your fond memories of your father as well.
Isabeau Imako
P'tite Poulette
Join date: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 2,335
03-06-2008 06:35
I can't help but wonder if Phil has a daughter and if he makes generalizations about her, too.

My mother used to say (still does) "You're just like your father!", and not in a good way.
I was (am) so proud...
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From: Macphisto Angelus
Just remember what my dear Grammy always says: "F**k 'em!"
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
03-06-2008 06:48
From: Colette Meiji
I was also trying to calm *YOU* down from your stance the OP set out to intentionally offend all men.
No I didn't. That's a bold assumption on your part. I didn't intentionally assume anything like that. I didn't even unintentionally assume it. I didn't think that any offense was intended in the OP's post.

From: Colette Meiji
I have made THOUSANDS of posts, I simply do not go out of my way to insult people. Your clinging to that belief only shows your ignorance of how I have posted over the years.
I didn't say that you go out of your way to insult people. You do it naturally. You don't need to go out of your way.

From: Missy Malaprop
how can Phil not understand that him saying "they are wrong" is a false statement. If he said, "I have found many females in SL who think that I want to shag them just because they are female and they think their avs are so attractive to me. They are wrong." then his statement would be fine.
The difference is so slight that I really don't think it would have changed the course of this thread. In fact it would possibly have made things worse, because it would have included a bit that sounded like me thinking very highly of myself.

From: Missy Malaprop
He talks for all males, assuming, like most people do, that he is normal, and that there is a minority of odd people different than him. From my own experience, on SL, RL, and in Psychology in general, his views are more than likely in a small minority of men. Most men, in my experience, are first attracted to physical looks (even avatars), in choosing who to pursue.
I'm no different to that. Looks are the first attraction. It's just that there isn't an avatar going that can hold a candle to RL looks, and avatar's looks are just drawings - not the same thing at all.

From: Missy Malaprop
But I do agree that I've seen many women (at least women AVs) on SL that are extremely full of themselves... just as I've seen many men that way too.
There you go. "Many" SL women are like that. That's what I said. I also happen to think that "perhaps" most SL women are like that, and nobody can find fault with that view/thought. They can dislike it, especially if it applies to them, but they can't show that it isn't true, so they can't fault it.

From: Victorria Paine
As far as I understand what he is trying to say, he's drawing a distinction between what his eyes perceive as "flesh" and what they perceive as "pixels". But my question is: how does this distinction really work in practice? I mean, we all know that these days at least most men are looking at porn on the internet (all protestations from them to the contrary notwithstanding). Yes, these are depictions of "flesh", but they are pixellated images all the same. And in many cases the pixellated images are to a significant degree electronically altered and manipulated with post-production programs so that many of them don't resemble "reality" as it was before the digital camera took its exposure. I don't see a real distinction between porn's pixellated images (which I assume that many, many men find arousing, based on their porn consumption) and the ones in SL other than the porn pixels are more realistic looking because they are based on digital photo images before they are post-produced.
First: The idea that most men are looking at porn on the internet needs to backed up with evidence, because I don't believe for a second that it's true. In fact I'd place a very very large bet that it isn't true. It may be true that most men haved seen it on the internet, but that's different.

Second: If you can't see the obvious difference between a picture of a naked girl, and a naked avatar, then do a search in Google for "glasses" or "spectacles" :) Generally speaking, the initial 'looks' attraction is the face, and I haven't yet seen a realistic face on an avatar. I'm not talking about times when a girl has her back to you and looks attractive from that view. It's the face that is the main initial attraction. What happens to real photographs in graphics programmes is irrelevant. They don't look as though they've been manipulated. Avatars never look like real pictures - never. They only ever look like animated drawings.

From: Victorria Paine
This raises some obvious questions. If avatar pixels in SL were more "realistic" flesh looking like porn's computer-enhanced pixel images, would it then be acceptable for men to be aroused by them without being considered "sad"? Or is his view that all men who currently are aroused by porn's pixellated images "sad" as a result? If it's the former view, it sounds like a distinction based entirely on the *quality* of the pixellated images (rather than being on the fact that they are pixels, because both images are pixels) -- which is a much narrower viewpoint than was being peddled here, I think--, whereas if it's the latter, then I think we can rest assured that his view is that of a distinct minority among men.
It's an interesting question. If avatars looked like real faces and bodies, and moved like them, then they would be much more arousing than anything that's on the internet, because there would be no preceivable difference, and they would often be willing to do things with you that current internet content can't do.

From: Brenda Connolly
Hmmmmm..... you've shown your disdain for the people who get off on animated drawings, yet you make and sell products that are used for that very purpose. Nice way to show contempt for your customers, especially from someone who claims SL is his livelihood.
Tacky, Phil. Very Tacky.
Actually, I make and sell products that are used for sex, Brenda, and there's a big distinction. If people's whole idea of SL sex is to watch 2 avatars 'at it', and get off on that, then they can use those products for it. But I think that most people's SL sex is a lot more than that. For me, avatars are a visual enhancement to SL sex, which is between the RL people at the keyboards or on voice, and not the sex itself. So my products are very usefull for sex.


Marcel:

I don't know why people have been against what I wrote about "many, perhaps most". I didn't write anything that isn't true. I can imagine why they are against it though. It's possible that one or two misunderstood what I wrote - read it the wrong way, even though the words were perfectly clear. It's possible that others joined in later and didn't see how it started. It's possible that some recognise themselves in what I wrote, and don't like what I said about it. Whatever the reasons for it all, there are one or two people who have indicated an agreement with what i wrote, at least in some measure (I quoted one in this post, for instance), even though they feel they should be against it. If a person writes, "many, perhaps most", then it should be understood as exactly that. It should never be understood as "most", or "on the whole", or "in general", or "the majority", or anything similar. That's where people have gone wrong here. A couple of people have written that they have also seen many SL women like I described, so it's not just my observations. It wasn't me who got it wrong - it was people who either misunderstood what I wrote, or intentionally chose to add to what I wrote, for whatever reason. I didn't say most women, or all women, or women in general, or women on the whole, or even just 'women'. You said that english isn't your native language, but I assure that "many, perhaps most" is perfectly clear to those whose native language is english, and it doesn't mean what some of them like to pretend it means.

I could say things like, people who get off on drawings of child sex are sad, and people who get off on drawings of bestiality are sad, and it wouldn't have met with the same opposition. It's my view, and I'm entitled to write it down.
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Brenda Connolly
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03-06-2008 06:50
From: Victorria Paine
Another member of the Queens Conspiracy, I see. We'll take over the world someday, I swear.

Raised in the Shadows of Shea Stadium.

@Phil: Fair enough, concerning you comment on your products. ;) *of which I am a satisfied owner of*
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
03-06-2008 06:51
From: Isabeau Imako
I can't help but wonder if Phil has a daughter and if he makes generalizations about her, too.
I have two daughters, and they are none of your fucking business! You are totally wrong, and way out of order, to suggest that I made any generalisations about women. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to show that your grasp of english is minimal, or what?
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
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03-06-2008 06:55
From: Brenda Connolly
@Phil: Fair enough, concerning you comment on your products. ;) *of which I am a satisfied owner of*
:)
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Isabeau Imako
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Join date: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 2,335
03-06-2008 07:14
From: Phil Deakins
I have two daughters, and they are none of your fucking business! You are totally wrong, and way out of order, to suggest that I made any generalisations about women. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to show that your grasp of english is minimal, or what?



Yes, it could be that my 'grasp' of English is minimal. What's your excuse?
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From: Macphisto Angelus
Just remember what my dear Grammy always says: "F**k 'em!"
Victorria Paine
Sleepless in Wherever
Join date: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,110
03-06-2008 07:16
From: someone
Second: If you can't see the obvious difference between a picture of a naked girl, and a naked avatar, then do a search in Google for "glasses" or "spectacles" Generally speaking, the initial 'looks' attraction is the face, and I haven't yet seen a realistic face on an avatar. I'm not talking about times when a girl has her back to you and looks attractive from that view. It's the face that is the main initial attraction. What happens to real photographs in graphics programmes is irrelevant. They don't look as though they've been manipulated. Avatars never look like real pictures - never. They only ever look like animated drawings.


But this is a difference in degree and not in kind, really. Your objection can't be to pixels, because that's what porn is. Your objection is that cartoon-ish looking pixel graphics are not something you find arousing (fine, but personal and seemingly contradicted by the experience of at least some others) and something with respect to which the arousal of others is "sad" in your opinion -- but isn't that then just a question of the degree of the realism of the graphics? I mean if I were having text sex with a typist which is graphically assisted/enhanced by an avatar who looked more realistic and moved more realistically, at the end of the day it's still a pixel avatar (albeit a more realistic one). This sounds to me less like a distinction between two different things (ie, reality vs. pixels) and more like a distinction between different degrees of realism in the world of pixellated images. In other words, a much narrower distinction, to me at least.

From: someone
If people's whole idea of SL sex is to watch 2 avatars 'at it', and get off on that, then they can use those products for it. But I think that most people's SL sex is a lot more than that. For me, avatars are a visual enhancement to SL sex, which is between the RL people at the keyboards or on voice, and not the sex itself.


Has anyone in the thread actually taken a contrary view?
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
03-06-2008 07:17
From: Isabeau Imako
Yes, it could be that my 'grasp' of English is minimal. What's your excuse?
I don't need an excuse. I haven't written anything about women in this thread that isn't true. You, on the other hand, have invented something - that I made generalisations about women.
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Yosef Okelly
Mostly Harmless
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Posts: 2,692
03-06-2008 07:28
Just a wild assed guess here, but how many people think Phil's attitude towards women and sex come from the fact he has been shot down a few times?

It has nothing to do with your looks, it's your attitude.
Beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes clear to the bone.
Your combative nature and dogmatic determination to be place blame elsewhere is a repulsive characteristic. You would be doing yourself and your family a favor if you try and find where all this anger is coming from and take steps to resolve it. But for me, I don't have to listen to you any more.
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
03-06-2008 07:31
From: Victorria Paine
But this is a difference in degree and not in kind, really. Your objection can't be to pixels, because that's what porn is. Your objection is that cartoon-ish looking pixel graphics are not something you find arousing (fine, but personal and seemingly contradicted by the experience of at least some others) and something with respect to which the arousal of others is "sad" in your opinion -- but isn't that then just a question of the degree of the realism of the graphics? I mean if I were having text sex with a typist which is graphically assisted/enhanced by an avatar who looked more realistic and moved more realistically, at the end of the day it's still a pixel avatar (albeit a more realistic one). This sounds to me less like a distinction between two different things (ie, reality vs. pixels) and more like a distinction between different degrees of realism in the world of pixellated images. In other words, a much narrower distinction, to me at least.
I don't believe I ever used the word pixels. I've used the words 'animated drawings' and 'drawings' all along. Of course pixel images can be arousing - webcams, movies, still RL images, etc. Even some very realistic looking works of art could perhaps be arousing. But avatars? There's nothing realistic about them. If any arousal takes place from seeing a naked avatar, for instance, it's surely got to be the likelihood of some real life sexual interaction between two real people. Avatars in themselves are not sexually arousing in the way that images of real nakedness can be. If they are to some people, then I do think it's sad.

From: Victorria Paine
Has anyone in the thread actually taken a contrary view?
It was a reply to Brenda - about my products :)
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
03-06-2008 07:39
From: Phil Deakins
No I didn't. That's a bold assumption on your part. I didn't intentionally assume anything like that. I didn't even unintentionally assume it. I didn't think that any offense was intended in the OP's post.


However you took offense at it.

From: Phil Deakins
My sentiments entirely.

The OP's question is offensive, because it appears to assume something about men that isn't true. Men do NOT pay for sex, either in SL or in RL. SOME men and women do, but that's all.


You sure didn't give her the benefit of the doubt here . Maybe you are just quick to take offense.

We already know by your strident assertions you made no clumsily worded posts on this thread.


---------------------------------------------------

From: Phil Deakins

I didn't say that you go out of your way to insult people. You do it naturally. You don't need to go out of your way.


Wow, you really are a crybaby.
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