Why do men pay for sl sex when there're so many orgy rooms?

Perhaps you missed my disclaimer...



Gah.. now you are dragging me into defending this..

*shrug* I wouldn't necessarily disagree with it out of hand. It's possible. I don't see how it is any kind of gross generalization. Looks like he went out of his way to avoid the gross with the explicit wording "many, perhaps most". Maybe you don't like what he said (because you are a woman, for example), or the way he said it (because you don't like Phil, for example), or just simply don't believe it (because that's not who you are and no one you know is like that, for example). That doesn't make it any less valid as his opinion.

As a corollary, I would say that it is likely that many, perhaps most men are the same way.

It's even more interesting as a Dragon the number of human women who come up to me and mention how they would like a big, strong male Dragon to carry them away to his lair and ravish them. It certainly isn't most, but it happens a lot more than I would ever expect.

QFT x2

/me makes mental note to find dragon avatar

The thing is that nobody has objected to that statement, or found fault with it. What people have objected to is an imagined change to that statement - from "many, perhaps most" (i.e. some) to "women in general". I've explained it enough times, but still they want to continue with the "women in general" idea, which is totally false. What esle can I do. I've explained what it actually said, and what was meant by it, but they don't want to know. They only want it to be about women in general.

I do think there's been a mob or bandwagon effect in this thread, and I also think that even the words "many, perhaps most" *might* have touched a few nerves of self-recognision.

Oh boy. The old "the forums don't represent the user base" argument. I never got why people were so adamant about maintaining the (statistically impossible) myth that forum users represent some kind of radical extremists with no connection to the opinions of the rest of the userbase. I have found that we represent a fairly accurate cross-section of the rest of the user base and, statistically speaking, we should.

As for the temp-rezzer threads. Your anecdotes don't trump mine or anyone else's, and there were a lot more negative anecdotes than positive ones, so I think it was fair to say that there was a recognizable-enough trend to say that they are more problematic than their perceived benefits. I also note that, though I don't know if it had anything to do with the forum posts, you don't sell them anymore.

Considering the small number of regular posters here, some of whom say that they don't even go into SL much any more, as compared to the number of people who use SL, I think it's reasonable not to make radical changes on the strength of one or two handfuls of forum users.

The main reason I stopped selling the temp rezzer is because some people are not very good at following instructions, and I was spending too much time talking people through using them. The forum discussions were effective though. I may not have stopped selling them so quickly had it not been for the discussions here.

"Many perhaps most" implies a majority or a near-majority. Since "Most" would be a clear majority.

It isn't the same thing as saying "Some" or "Many" with are more ambiguous.

You basically are saying "Around half of the women in SL are this way .." and then seem confused people saw that as you making generalizations.

----------------

I didn't comment on your original "many not most" declaration - though I found it a bit of a weird way to just say <Many women in SL are vain>

I was commenting on your later comments about physical presence since I saw them being lost in your previous sure-to-be misinterpreted remarks.

This whole thing is just semantics. Phil, I think you would have been better understood if you had just said "many" and left it at that. The word "most" does imply "in general" or "majority". If I hear, or see, "most" I immediately infer from that "the majority". Okay, maybe not "in general". But most tends to implicate more than half which is a majority. "Many", however, is not interpreted to mean majority. I'm probably not the only one who inferred "majority" from "most", which resulted in people thinking you were making a generalization.

I don't think I'm involving myself in a mob mentality here, and I really hate to see that phrase. It just irks me to have someone tell me that I'm only disagreeing with something because someone else did it first. That's simply not true. I'm not saying that Phil is wrong in stating, in his opinion, many female avatars think a male avatar only wants to have sex with them on the basis of their avatar's attractiveness. I'm saying that, in my opinion, Phil is wrong in stating most female avatars. Again, please note the use of the word "opinion" for both my view and Phil's. Because these views are, IN FACT, opinions. No one should get that upset about someone disagreeing with their opinion.

Also, Phil, I do think you were much more insulting on this thread then anyone else, although you seem to view Collette as more insulting. That's my opinion, anyway.

Exactly. But, of course, I'm of a mob mentality, I'm sure, since I was typing my post and didn't see this from Colette until my reply was submitted.

I may be an exception to the 'rule'

Going back to the OP:
I have never paid for sex either in RL, or in SL.

Since I met Claire, I have turned down many free offers from women in SL...Not all offers, but most of them. I am not one who goes about hitting on women; I find quite the opposite to be the case.

I do find much of the 'physical' looks presented by many in SL simply that, physical attractiveness on the surface...and I am not talking about a specific sex or sexual orientation. Being hung up on looks alone can be a trap.
I am one who preferred a good conversation and romance with the opposite sex, even before her looks.
To be attractive in my eyes, she would have to attract my mind's eye even more so than my physical eyes.

On my friendships I have bought gifts... $L means nothing to me.
There is more to life (or second life) than sex.
But not even $1L spent on ‘sex’...

These words are my own personal experiences and opinion, and you (all of you in general) are entitled to your own opinions and experiences without the need for debate, as I do not wish to get sucked into an argumentative debate, thanks.

/me reaches out and gives Phil a big hug

I don't think you can say either way, what relevance forum posters opinions have to the population as a whole. Yes, we may be a minority of the total number of residents, even when you factor out alts and bots, but if the majority of forum posters say the sky is blue,it could well mean that most SL residents think the sky is blue too, *Windlight included*, they just aren't voicing their opinion here. So, while it is true that a majority opinion here may not apply to all residents, you can't positively say that it doesn't either.

You must have had the wrong attorney.

I agree that "many/perhaps most" implies near half, or to be more accurate, it implies a significant percentage - maybe even more than half. But I don;t agree that it implies women in general, or most women, or women on the whole, or anything like that. These inferences were wrong, but it's those inferences that people have wrongly used to criticise what I actually wrote.


Sunni:

I'm not being argumentative in this, so please don't read it that way...

If I'd just said "many", as you suggested, I would understand it if people took it to mean a majority. I'm not saying that it means a majority, but I'd understand it if it were taken that way. "most" certainly means most, but not when preceded by "perhaps". All it means then is perhaps/maybe most. In all honesty, and without intending to be argumentative, I think the the words, "many, perhaps most", were fine for the intended meaning.

I didn't suggest that any specific indivdual was involved in mob mentality/bandwagon effect, although the thread does give the impression that some of the posts may have been due to that - i.e. these people have that view, they must be right, so I'll post the same view.

Yes I was the most insulting in this thread. I expect to see little insults from Colette - as norm - in many threads, so I gave back more than she gave to me and the OP. It was wrong of me to do that. I thought that Isabeau bringing my RL family into it was way out of order, especially as she was using it to perpetuated the falseness. I replied in anger. Perhaps it was just her misfortune that I do actually have daughters, so it hit a nerve.

That's true, Brenda. But some things, like the color of the sky, have a lot to do wioth common sense, whereas the temp rezzers and traffic bots discussions were a lot to do with people's desires, and a little to do with the technical side of things. There was a lot of discussion on the effects of temp rezzers on sims, for instance.

/me snickers

Okay, Phil, not being argumentative here, either. Really. I was trying to make the point, in my previous post, that there is a reason people inferred what they did, regardless of the actual intention of your words. I still think by using "most", whether preceeded by "perhaps" or not, majority was implied and most was also implied. The ineferences made were, therefore, quite understandable.

I didn't necessarily direct the mob mentality comment to you, it was stated by someone, not by you, and right now I really don't feel like going back and looking for the phrase. I know i read it, or something similar, earlier in this thread. Once again, my opinion is mine, if it's the same as someone else's that's not through mob mentality, it's just through individuals having similar throught processes. It's been known to happen......go figure.

I still think that just stopping at the word "many" would have gotten your point across much more effectively and without a lot of what you see as misunderstanding. You don't see it the same way, and that's fine. We'll just agree to disagree on your word usage. Again, it's all semantics.

Though it is generally held that women are more moody creatures than men, I find myself to be quite a moody creature, when it comes to representations of eroticism.

If a certain mood is upon me, 3 squiggles by picasso can launch me into an erotic reverie, if I find my self at the opposite end of the mood spectrum......then a RL naked Susan Sarandon leaping into my lap, might not elicit my full attention.

(Hmmmm....ok....perhaps I am exagerating a little with that last example. )

Now aesthetes love playing the competitve game of my artistic antenae are more finely calibrated than yours, but even allowing for this...I find it hard to believe, that everybody is ALWAYS consistent on this subject.

Can the somewhat rudimentary SL avatar inspire erotic longing. ??
If the mood is on you.......I would say yes.

Does this then, make me a "Sad" person.

Shrugs.....perhaps.

But hey, dont knock "Sad"

Being "Sad" makes me happy.

All you did is call me stupid over and over and over.

Which I find laughable.

At least the OP hit me with "bitch" which at least could be accurate from her point of view of my comment about her post.

I think you blew up unnecessarily at Isabeau's comment. Especially since you don't feel you were making generalizations at all.

(DERAILMENT eminent)

Fair enough, Sunni. People did infer the wrong thing, but I explained it a number of times since it started, so I do think that some of the people in the thread were just intending to be critical. I also think that some of them jumped on the bandwagon, without even knowing what was written originally. I can't help but think it when I wrote something, people responded as though I wrote something different, I corrected them, but still, they continued the criticisms as though I wrote something different. It certainly looks as though they had no interest in what was meant by the original statement, and that their only interest was in being critical. I'm not talking about you, btw.

You're wrong. Bald assertion? Yes, but so was yours. The difference is that I am right and you are wrong.

Welcome to your world.




Okay, then. "Some" people are guilty of anything under the sun. So, in effect, your statement was banal.

Oh come on Yosef.....you can't tell me that a good looking woman will give an average to ugly looking guy any chance at all to even get to know his attitude - usually, at first, it is about looks.

Eh hem...

I think I'll invite Claire to go with me to see an orgy room, just to see what all the fuss is about...

So far, I haven't felt any erotic longing for an SL avatar. But as you say, when you're in the mood, anything can set you off. A kind word, a touch, a bag of corn chips - a dragon or a handsome avatar. Maybe I'm sad, too.