Skybox Security?

No need to. If anyone is nosey enough to go to such high elevations, they get a couple of warnings and then they're gone. Serves them right. You can't have free skies. That's all there is.

You're either misinterpreting me or you're confusing me with Hank.

What difference does it make if the prims go all the way to the ground or not? It's not like they're attached to each other. Besides, skyhooks are supported from the top end, not the bottom.

The difference between physical builds and security orbs is visibility. You can see prims. You can't see mysterious yelling scripts that demand you go somewhere (but don't tell you where) in a ludicrously short amount of time.

Nobody's being nosey. I, and everyone I know, go out of our way to avoid little groups of green dots in the skies. Or even single green dots. There's nobody chatting in an empty skybox with a 96 meter warning zone that I can't avoid because my draw distance is 64 when I'm flying. How the HELL am I supposed to avoid that? Or know what direction to go to avoid being ejected?

This isn't about your security orb that you only run when you're making whoopie and you limit to 20m from your bed. This is about what griefing landowners actually put out there because they're asses. I had one guy next to my own land set up:

No object entry.
Access to group only.
Yelling copybot protector with a 96 meter limit.
Instant auto-eject security orb with physical attack backup.

And the last of those was able to orbit me FROM MY OWN LAND if I got within a couple of meters of his ban lines.

ON MY OWN PROPERTY.

And neither support requests nor abuse reports got rid of them.

This is not about "landowner rights". This is about legitimized griefing.

I have a friend that has a 1024m plot on the mainland with a skybox at 3900m. she has a security orb that projects a 20m bubble around her 10x20m home. if you want to cam in, you'll see a Tiny gray kitten perhaps lounging in her bean bag chair, her yule tree, her fish tank, single Tiny bed, & sparking windchime. very exciting stuff.

if the distance from the ground to about 3880m isn't enough to fly your airship, oh, well, too bad. though I think, you'll have a bigger problem navigating around the 7 or 8 planets stack up for 1500m on the parcel next to hers.

Remember that we are talking about normal use of security devices here.

Then I don't see the problem, unless you are saying that you and everyone you know would go to a skybox if there are no green dots in it, in which case, the word "nosey" still applies. I see no justifiable reason for people to have a look around other people's homes when they are empty, especially those that are high up in the sky, which are obviously intended to be away from people. Nosey people need to learn to mind their own business.

Increase your draw distance when flying high - fixed. There's no need for it to be as low as 64m. Reversing direction is a good way out of danger.

This is not about such cases. This is about the normal use of a security device, which can be permanently on, and about people who unreasonably want completely uninterupted passage through the sky. I support the idea of uninterupted passage, but not your idea of wanting it at all elevations, which is just selfish. You want it all (all elevations), and you can't have it all.

No. I'm not confusing you with Hank but Hank does want it all too.

It's the best I can offer, I'm afraid - no objects between certain elevations so that uninterupted flying can be done. Any more than that and it's just being selfish. Personally, I don't care whether or not that solution would allow you to fly around every object that you'd fancy flying around. It would allow you free movement over all the mainland. I think that's sufficient. Insisting on being able fly without interuptions, everywhere and at all levels, is just being greedy.

Now that's something that I can completely agree with, although I suspect that what is a ludicrously short time to you, is ample time to others. Visibility is currently a real problem. A security-free level would solve it.

Btw, I've changed my mind about an object-free level. A security-free level is better.

Yes, I'm talking about the normal use of security devices... as I have encountered as a landowner and explorer.

The problem is that a skybox can easily happen to rez right in front of me because of rendering lag. The only way to completely avoid skyboxes even at a sedate 8 m/s is to avoid the green dots on the mini map.

This is not about "being nosey", this is about "that's the only way you can tell they're there".

If I increase my draw distance, that actually makes it MORE likely I'll blunder into a skybox. because now I'll be rendering someone's skybox mall full of textures 100 meters below me instead of your skybox 30 meters the other side of a sim border in front of me.

It absolutely is, because these cases ARE the normal experience that people flying have with security tools.

This isn't about "wanting it at all elevations". This is about "not wanting to restrict legitimate building". There is no elevation where I want to tell landowners "you can't build there". If I don't see your building and I run into it, I'll back the heck off and fly around it, no harm, no foul. You don't even know I was there. If I don't see your security zone and you teleport me home, where I end up sitting locked up for a minute before getting logged out, then there's definite harm... and it's *unnecessary* harm.

Jeez, Phil, at least *try* to understand what the problem is. Nobody *wants* to see inside the darn skyboxes. The whole damned problem is getting whacked by the security devices no matter how hard we try to *avoid* them.

Incidentally, it's come up a couple of times, and I just want to respond: cranking up draw distance doesn't actually help, unless you're barely moving, even at high altitude. I didn't really appreciate this until yesterday when I was flying very high over Zindra (not in a vehicle, just flying), hunting for prims that the Editor sprayed into space. I cranked up draw distance to 512 and flew off chasing the stray prims. I was astonished that even though there's very little up there to rez, what's there may still take several minutes of sitting idle before it will appear.

At one point I found myself trapped inside a skybox that rezzed around me as I tried to pass through what had appeared to be empty space. Luckily they didn't have a security device or I'd have never figured out how to get out of there before it sent me home--and then I'd have had no clue where to continue the hunt for my stray prims.

I just think folks don't appreciate how very broken this platform is, and have utterly unrealistic expectations for what people can do here--including evading or escaping security devices.

Argent:

We could go on and on with this, but I'd rather not do that. I'll just say one thing in reply to your post - if increasing your draw distance to avoid skyboxes with security devices, causes you to rez malls 100m below, then you're not flying very high, and you are very unlikely to run into skyboxes with security devices. In fact, you're not even talking about the same thing that most of us are talking about. I do get the impression that you are coming up with opposing arguments for the sake it, rather than because they exist to any significant degree, but it's just an impression.

I'm sorry if, when flying, you run into occasional problems with security devices, but that's just the way it, because land owners own the land and the space above it, and are free to use it as they wish, provided that it's within the ToS and doesn't affect neighbouring land.

I have been trying to understand, Qie, and I do appreciate that getting zapped by badly used security devices is an occasional problem. What I don't agree with is that flyers should take precedence over land owners rights. I absolutely disagree with that.

I agree that sufficient time should be given for someone to move away, even though I disagree with the amount of time that you suggested. But I don't agree that security devices should not be used or should not be left on permanently. That would be too much for landowners who want a degree of privacy.

As a realistic example (hypothetical):
I have mainland with space above it. I want a skybox to call home and I put it at, say, 3000m. I don't want anyone sniffing around my home, whether I'm there or not, so I turn the security device on permanently. I accept it's possible for someone to come up there looking for lost prims, but how often would that happen? I accept that someone could actually fancy flying over the mainland at 3000m and may even come close to my little bit of it, but how often would that happen? On balance, I think that my degree of privacy outweighs those possible rare occurences by a *very* long way. If you want to fly over my land, it's fine with me, but just don't do it around 3000m or, if you do, be prepared to move on without dawdling around my skybox.

Honestly, Phil, you might as well ask the wind not to blow than ask people not to be nosy. If there is an empty house, people will look. They will even look at an occupied one. People are interested in celebrity homes, they are interested in what's in the medicine cabinet over at the neighbor's house. Sure, these things are none of their business, but trying to tell people not to be nosy when it's basic human behavior is a losing proposition.

Assume people are going to look. It's just the way people are. Working with normal behavior is a lot easier than working against it.

There's a lot of truth in that, Isablan.

I don't see any need to work with them though, if I prefer people not to nosey around my place. It's my choice and if they choose to be nosey too long, they deserve to be booted.

I'm with you now. I think flying or being in a flight vehicle should be a hazardous task in SL. It's great knowing that you have no idea where you can possibly fly, kinda like flying through a swiss cheese of security devices throughout the world. It's wonderful to see people being blasted out of the sky and sent home. Serves them right for trespassing.

If you want to play Peeping Tom and watch people having virtual sex, you don't have to go flying around looking for them. I can send you some landmarks and save you a lot of time.

The point of the thread which has apparently been completely missed in favor of screaming like a banshee is security for SKYBOXES, not AIRSPACE.

If you're bebopping around in an aircraft at 500 meters and get close enough to a skybox with a properly and reasonably configured security system, you're flying too damn close to it.

People who rudely configure security orbs to eject people instantly, or cover land with nothing on it or isn't theirs are douchebags. People can balance privacy with security, especially at lower altitudes.

Of course, they aren't any more douchebags than people who insist that other people's skyboxes are public property. If you're trying to fly through someone's skybox, you can reasonably expect to be told to leave.

You need to lobby LL for a solution.

For one, I do not have sex furniture. But what do I care what someone does on my land (say they wander in my stonehenge maybe) as long as it is not ARable and I am not there to trip over them. Maybe I am a dunce, but how does it does not affect me? Do they leave virtual flu germs on my stuff maybe?

people running emerald
anyone who knows how to tell the LL client to let you always fly
etc ad nauseum ....

So if you absolutely MUST use a script just have it message them to go away. Or like another poster said, the most efficient way is the mute function.

I have a security orb that I set to 36 meters. The sky island is less that 40 meters across. I never thought someone would have so big problems with rendering lag that they should accidentally fly into it. It makes me wonder what the attraction about flying is - if you can't see anything, does it feel rewarding just to fly over new land you can't see?

But I don't have any right to question what you get out of flying. Not my business. So, if you don't like security orbs, how about bees? I don't have an closed skybox, so a bee hive on the sky island would actually blend in well. You would have to actually stay there a bit before you were attacked, right? With bees, flying close and just passing by wouldn't be a problem?

Hehe, I didn't necessarily mean "work with them," I meant more like "work around them."

If you are inviting people over to your home in RL for a party, you DO put anything away that you don't want public, right? Because you know they are going to snoop in the bathroom and you know they will take a glance around the bedroom when they are putting their coats on the bed... Human nature is what it is, if you expect people to be people then you get a lot less disappointment when they turn out to be ....people.

And the mute button stops people from landing and tinkering with my half-built scripted toys how, particularly if I'm not there? Or clowns from deciding they want to come and disrupt proceedings when I'm half way through setting up the animations in some of our MLPV stuff. It's really fun to be working on a motorbike, too, trying to get the wheel speeds right, when some joker decides to sit on it.

Most of my building I do on a platform on my own island, where people know they touch stuff on the platform at their peril because it's quite likely to break something I'm half-way through, thus making me all ratty. But all this stuff has happened to me over the last few months when I've been working with friends on their mainland platforms. And I can't imagine I'm the only person it happens to.

Actually, it's a fair question. Flying above the cloud layer isn't for sightseeing. The only thing you really want to see is your own craft and those of the other flyers (whom you may be trying to attack, or just engage in aerial acrobatics). For this, empty water sims like the Blake Sea are best, but a lot of us don't live on the Blake Sea. Personally, I have land on the Atoll coast with protected water for two sims beyond, but it's pretty easy to venture far off course when the landmarks are few to none.

I don't know from bees; if they got into the cockpit probably they'd get disoriented and would be hard to swat at high speed, but I guess that's just one of the perils of flying.

And seriously, one has to accept some peril when piloting any vehicle. The fact that I can find myself trapped inside a build before it rezzes is just one of those things, so if the risk of intrusion is really a big deal for the person who owns the build, yeah, I accept that I'm never going to escape in time and will be teleported home, hoping to see the craft back in my Lost+Found whenever the landowner's auto-return decides to cough it up--or it will be forever a decoration in that skybox. Them's the breaks.

That's what security devices do - message them to go away. It's only after ignoring 2 or 3 of those messages that the boot kicks in. That's how it should be, and that's what people have been talking about here. We all rightly criticise security devices that are set to boot quickly and without warning.

The boot is necessary because, as Innula pointed out, your mute method does nothing.

Umm, you DO know RL is not the same as SL, right?

In RL people can get germs on something that is sterile, break that family heirloom, or even steal something. Please explain how any of those 3 things can happen in SL (of course barring a script or such where you gave them access to do just that).

You can even do something really embarassing in SL with no major worries about RL awkwardness if they do not know your RL info. Even if they know it, if they do not live near you, most ppl will not make a special trip just to go "haw! haw!".

And what are the chances of running into a security bubble whilst flying off course high up there in the sky? It's a genuine question.