Skybox Security?

I used to be a skybox owner with a security device 100m from a sky mall. >.>
One reason I sold the place.

Then you haven't run into one of mine. You get 2 warnings with mine

I've run into plenty that give multiple warnings. To be perfectly honest, I don't recall ever coming across a 1-warning-only device. I may have but I don't recall it.

It's unlikely that any skybox will be near the ground. There may be some, but the odd one here or there deosn't make any difference to the discussion.

Ugh, one store I used to go too had their next door neighbor's orb overlapping one of their walls.

1. It doesn't have to be a mall. That was an obvious example that should be easy to understand. Some people's skyboxes have so much porn on the walls they're as download-heavy as a mall.

2. I didn't say 30m, I said 100m below. The point I was making is that reducing the draw distance is essential to being able to see what you're about to run into when you're flying at altitude. THIS POINT HAS BEEN SECONDED BY OTHER PEOPLE, so I don't even know why I should HAVE to respond to your challenge.

So, no, I'm not "arguing for the sake of arguing". I'm describing my real experiences, giving examples, and you're telling me I'm lying and/or nitpicking.

Right. because I don't want to restrict where YOU can build, and because I'm perfectly willing to fly around your stuff when I see it... so I don't see a reason to KEEP you from building where you want to build, you're telling me *I* want it all?

You're nitpicking my examples and assuming I'm lying and telling me *I'm* arguing for the sake of arguing?

Physician, heal thyself.

It's not unlikely that security scripts will be installed in content near the ground.

The point I'm trying to get across is that there's SO MANY bad actors on the landowner's side, that just sitting there and pontificating about property rights without so much as acknowledging that bad actors are a REAL problem is precisely what radicalizes people like Hank.

Security scripts are a real, significant problem. Blithely saying there should be no restrictions on them is just being an ass.

Not to get between you two, but: I've encountered several devices that say "10 seconds" but eject immediately. (I used to fly over different parts of Mainland almost every day, so perhaps I was more likely to find such devices than is the average Resident.)

Alright. It's unlikely that *skybox* security devices will be near the ground. We *are* discussing security devices in skyboxes, and not security devices in general.

Nobody has tried to deny that there are "bad actors" out there, but we're trying to discuss security devices in skyboxes and their normal/sensible use. You have a bee in your bonnet about bad actors and that's fine. But it's not what we're discussing here. It doesn't help if you keep bringing up every possible way that security devices can or have affected you.

You're right. Blithely saying that would be the words of an ass. Who said it? It wasn't me.

Yes, but if you tp into the no fly zone you can't commence flight. The idea that flight is supposedly unrestricted and that the Lindens have adopted this as some envisioned value just isn't true.

If you didn't slam every comment I make suggesting that Hank might have a reason for his crazy ideas by accuding me of making it up for the sake of arguing, I wouldn't be posting at all.

But, WTH:

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Whichever way you slice it, you're still stuck with landowner rights, which include the space above the ground, and there is no way that the desires of outsiders should take precedence over them.

Then don't respond. Btw, it was ONE other person - Qie.

I didn't say you were lying. I said that is seems like you are inventing situations to argue for the sake of it. And it really does seem like that.

Yep. You do seem to want it all. You want the freedom to fly at all levels everywhere over the mainland, without being interupted by people's security devices. That's wanting it all to my of thinking.

That's what it seems like BUT I haven't assumed you are lying. That's a fallacy.

And there was me thinking it was the other way round. Silly me!

Landowners are not the only ones who have rights here.

[personal attacks ignored]

Who else has rights? I imagine you're saying that everyone has a right to fly above a mainland landowner's land. If that's what you mean, I disagree. It's excellent that people can generally do that, and, as a result of this thread and thinking about flying in SL, I really would like to see a no-security zone in the sky, but as things are right now, I disagree that flying over other people's mainland is a right. But maybe that's not what you meant.

My ideas are crazy, yes...but working to improve my security and make it work for everyone.

And Argent has a very valid point, as several others have mentioned.

Yes. Linden Labs has repeatedly acted to support that right when they have infringed it, because free flight over the level of the ban lines is important to their vision of SL. This is a god thing. This right IS important to SL, and MUST be treated seriously.

If it is a right, I would approve of it. But, even though Lindens have dealt with it, presumably from ARs, I would still like to see it written, or even implied, before I can accept it as being an actual right. Individual Lindens do sometimes arrive at decisions that other individual Lindens wouldn't arrive at, so I'd like to see at least some reference to it if it really is a right.

ETA:
I'm not going to argue this point, because I think it should be a right.

I've heard Philip Linden (can't get any higher than that), several Lindens say it, JIRAs say it, olbies here say it. I have a feeling that you won't listen until it is written in stone, and then still won't believe it. Mainland is a shared resource, period. You have less rights than a private island owner. You have a certain amount of mainland server time, objects, (temp-on-rez and vehicles which can side-step prim limits) and space (albeit it is space above banlines; which is allowed because vehicles are allowed to circumvent certain parts of land owner ban settings such as object entry) reserved for the enjoyment of everyone in SL. That's the point of the mainland.

Do you have privacy rights? Absolutely! Will most people respect that? Of course! LSL scripting features give you some abilities that can be abused, but are necessary to deal with the rare griefer who finds ways to make your life miserable. LL has commented and worked to increase security for mainland owners for many years. But it is not absolute, and you should never think it is.

This goes for the situation where you own every single sqm of a mainland sim. You still don't have private island rights and privileges (except for concierge service as a high tier payer to LL). Believe me, I used to own 2 mainland sims myself back in the day.

Mainland is not a shared resource. We've been through this before. I pay for my part of it and it is not shared with anyone else unless I say so. If you don't like it, take it up with LL because you do have to live with it.

It doesn't matter whether or not I believe that flying over other people's land is a right, because I approive of such a right whether or not it exists. So don't concern yourself with my beliefs on that particular point.

You just don't get it. This has been discussed for years. Mainland is shared. I'm sorry, but you just don't understand. You own the land, and have certain rights to it, including the airspace...but the rest of the population has rights as well to enter your land for certain purposes such as flying to a destination, using vehicles, having automated objects passing over your land. I understand you think you own 20% of the simulator if you own 20% of the land in it, but that is not true. Simply not true. That only applies to private islands where you own 100%, have complete control, total privacy.

You are welcome to your illusions, Hank, but that's all they are - illusions. When you pay towards the rent of my land, then you will be able to think of it as a shared resource - shared by you and me, of course, but nobody else.

You don't have any right to walk over my land, or to do anything on my land, if I don't allow it. Some shared resource, huh? You want to fly over my land, fly vehicles over it. Would you like a demonstration of how my land isn't shared with you?

You are right about walking over your land; the ban-lines prevent that. However, you are mistaken about the rest of it. Oh well, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. And they aren't illusions...it's the truth.

Anyway... I thought I'd have a random fly around to see what would happen, so I set off flying over mainland sims at around 100m and below. The first problem I had was a full sim that I couldn't enter. Soon afterwards I was TPed home without any warning. The message was, "Nobody invited you to our house. DIE!" I only lasted about 5 minutes, so I don't think I'll take up ballooning as a hobby

One thing I did notice was that flying around like that is pointless - at least for me. I was not far above the ground, over land - not water, on a 20M connection, and using an nVidia 9500 GT (1G?) card in a Vista machine with 2G in it, and I could never see anything but water below and in front of me. So flying at normal avatar speed is useless for enjoying the landscape.

I do take Argent's point about not being able to see places before hitting them. I've no idea if the place that booted me was up close or on the ground below, because I stopped where I was in the air and left the room for a minute. When I got back, I was at home and had a blue notice, quoted above. There was no other notice and nothing my chat, so I know that I wasn't given any time to scarper.

What is truth to you is just illusion. Would you like a demo higher up where the banlines cannot reach?

OMG! That's terrible! Hilarious, but terrible!



(/me hurt herself laughing)