Skybox Security?

You would like it if you had sex furniture for example and noticed someone had used it while you were away? Heck, if you don't have a security system and they now know about the bed, they can just wait for you to log off to use your private home as their own.

And Hank, I'm really interested to know where you are flying that you're supposedly bumping into protected areas every 10 meters. And no, noone here is talking about 'protecting their airspace'. What some *are* talking about is protecting their privacy and their right to be the sole users of their own home. Just because someone places a secure area around their skybox doesn't mean they see themselves entitled to booting anyone that's ANYWHERE within the airspace above their land.

You have also shown no proof of there being an explicit rule about so-called 'public airspace'.

Good grief. Does the phrase "gross exageration" mean anything to you? The height of normal building is 4096 meters, and the maximum range for a security device is 96m. Do you imagine that sims are full of parcels where the owners put security devices all the way up? Does *anyone* do that? Of course not. We are talking about a skybox here - a secure bubble somewhere in the airspace column - somewhere up to 4096 meters. If you can't negotiate that, then you should keep your feet firmly on the ground.

Not so. The landowner can set up parcel access control (ban lines) on the ground. The landowner can not set up access control in the air. That is a restriction that does not exist on private estates.

You just don't get it. MAINLAND is a shared resource...you rent a certain prim allocation on a server, which is also related to a certain pattern of land on that simulator. There are some public resources on every single MAINLAND simulator allocated for public use. From temp-on-rez objects, to prims for vehicles, to autonomous devices (birds, whatnot) that we all can take advantage of and use in a shared manner. It's always been that way. The only completely private land that you can own is a PRIVATE ISLAND, where you pay for the entire server and can do whatever you want...it's more correctly called an ESTATE, which is distinctly different from the MAINLAND. On an estate, you can do region-wide bans, you can even make your estate invisible if you want to.

This happened to me when I had a house. I thought it was interesting. I was vaguely curious as to who it was but didn't feel it was important enough to make it worthwhile writing a 20 line script to find out.

It's a proposal that would allow you to put a skybox over 3000-some-odd meters and make it genuinely private. Nobody who wasn't in the parcel's access control lists would be able to enter the zone, NOR would they be able to see anything in the zone except green dots on the minimap.

I didn't say that the same restrictions apply to private estates. I said that restrictions apply to them.

Alright, there are more restrictions in the air than on the ground. It doesn't make any difference.

I won't reply to the rest of your post, as there seems to be no point with you. I'll just say that it is you who doesn't get it. You only need to read this thread to realise that. You have some desires and the SL system doesn't provide the for you. You need to take it up with LL because they designed and run the system. Trying to push your desires onto other people is a fruitless task.

What, the point that I'm trying to get across to you doesn't make a difference?

The only reason those restrictions exist is to allow free flight over all parts of the sky that isn't actually built in. Because that free flight is an important right.

Hank takes it too far, I agree, but that doesn't make the underlying point wrong.

Now there's an idea. That would be cool, and in that case there would truly be a public and private airspace.

Oh and people keep mentioning 'free flight' as some sort of right, but... No fly zone anyone?

They don't agree. To them, their rights to their land extend up to an infinite height on MAINLAND. They want the public resources on the mainland to be removed because they don't feel that they should exist. If they had their way, there would be banline "pillars" (cube pillars, whatever) that would create huge barriers to movement within the mainland regions. They don't give a rat's a** about the history or community of the mainland. They think the mainland is just parceled private estates, which it is not.

You guys can disrespect me all you want, but I've been here a long time, and I know what I'm talking about with regards to how the mainland is supposed to work regardless of how you want it to be. If LL has decided to change what the mainland is supposed to be, then they are going back on their promises from many years ago (which wouldn't be a big surprise).

The problem is Hank that you see land owners as spiteful and opposed to community. Who here is talking about setting up huge ban areas? Noone. And again: show me this rule that land owners aren't allowed to set up secure areas over their land, and I'll completely agree with you. You are just as much projecting your own wants onto the actual reality of this whole debate.

The idea that people should be able to fly freely through the sky is fine, and I have no objections to it. But the system that LL created allows land owners to use their airspace more or less as they see fit. It's LL's doing if it's not suitable for some people, and not the fault of the landowners. It would only need a new rule from them, stating a height corridor where landowners are not allowed to place objects or restrict passage in any way. It would be very nice, actually - I could enjoy it myself.

But they haven't done that, or anything like it. And many landowners like to have a skybox that is as secure as possible. Nobody can reasonably object to that. So landowners place their skyboxes where they see fit. They don't place them to get in the way of people passing through, but they have no way of knowing at what height people like to fly through.

I don't object to the idea of freedom of passage through the sky, but I do object to people finding fault with land owners who make their skyboxes, which are usualy their homes or workshops, as private as they can.

It would be nice to have a rule where the sky is to be kept clear up to the old 768 building height. There is loads of room above that for skyboxes with security devices that can never reach down to 768m.

It comes from flying the mainland and being griefed by overzealous "security" systems that make it impossible anymore to use an air vehicle over many parts of the mainland. I'm sick and tired of getting thrown from my vehicle because someone doesn't understand what the mainland is about, is too cheap to buy a private sim, and who violates the enjoyment of others in this world.

Without anything to support it, I can't accpet that LL made any such promises. What I do know is that, what you described is not the way it actually is. Whether or not LL went back on promises, I don't know, but one piece of evidence you brought does show that LL changed their minds about one thing, which wasn't a promise - not creating so much land that SL seems to be empty. That's exactly what they've done. So it doesn't seem to be very sensible to insist that something *is* as LL said it would be, when clearly it isn't.

But see, this is about YOUR wants. Which is understandable of course, but you're trying to make it seem like land owners are actually breaking rules, which they are not. And while your enjoyment is supposedly being violated, others' enjoyment is being violated as well when they can't have any kind of privacy.

And buying private sims isn't cheap by the way. If it was that easy, you could buy one yourself too for undisturbed flying.

Regardless of what I want, that is the way it has always been on the mainland. What has happened is people have either forgotten or don't know that mainland is a shared resource. You think you are getting security by abusing the LSL features of SL, but what you are doing is destroying the airspace that we have all enjoyed since the beginning of SL. That airspace was there by design. Being ignorant of that fact doesn't make it right for you to tell the rest of us how the mainland is supposed to work.

Now, if you want privacy, by all means use a security system. But they way they are used is abuse. You have decided to lump all of the innocent people who "stray" onto your land for whatever reason in with people who are trespassing on the land you have rented from SL.

Hank. You may be old but you're out of touch. That is the way that *you thought* it had always been, but it hasn't been that way since I joined late in 2006, and I doubt that it ever was that way.

Then go ahead, teleport everyone who strays on your land...petition LL to extend ban-lines up to infinity. Petition LL to get rid of temp-on-rez, get rid of the ability for vehicles to enter parcels that have entry restrictions on. Tell them to undo all those things they implemented, because obviously they have no purpose.

Erm, you're just as much telling us how the mainland is supposed to work. Show me a Linden Lab statement that the mainland is a shared resource and should stay that way. Otherwise it's just your word against that of others. Some vague notion of 'how things are supposed to be' never survives very long by the way. Things change.

I've no desire to do any of those things. I don't use a security device myself because I don't have a homelike place - I haven't had one for a long time. I have a skybox where I sometimes work. It has a security device and if I need to turn it on, I will, but I haven't had such a need for a very long time. It's at about 3000m and if I turn the device on and it knocks people out of sky way up there - tough. They'll get a couple of warnings first, of course.

What do you mean by "no fly zone"?

The "No fly" parcel flag?

That doesn't have any effect on people flying over the parcel.

It also has no effect on vehicles.

Rather less than more. There is no way you can practically fill your airspace with prims, for example. It's simply not practical to have more than a fraction of the volume taken up by actual building, and you can't fill it with ban zones, so in practice most space above the mainland is open for free flight. This is by design. The original design of SL was that people would fly or travel in vehicles everywhere. Point to point teleporting was only added later. Free flight is therefore a fundamental design rule of SL, and that has not been changed.

If people would simply do that, I would not find fault either, but they don't. They buy security orbs that create huge invisible zones that swat people out of the air with completely inadequate warning. If you don't want people objecting to reasonable security devices, then try and figure out a way to prevent the abusive ones from being emplaced.

But don't you dare imply that fliers have no reason to complain about what is ACTUALLY out there.

Hank, I think there's an important distinction between people saying, "I want to ban everyone but people on my access list from everywhere on my parcel from the ground all the way up to MAX_INTEGER metres" and saying "I want to ban them from the particular bit of airspace occupied by my skybox, but they're welcome to fly through any other part of it, above or below".

If someone actually drops by my land, they'll see I provide a heck of a lot more for the public than most mainland people give.

I've got a lot of publicly available usable content.

But in my home, or on my build platform.

Well, I have the power as the owner of that parcel to eject anyone I want to from it - and I use an automated method to it, but only do so within a very small portion of it.

If someone starts paying my tier bills, they can have access to the tiny tiny tiny portion of my land I restrict. But until then, STFU - because I'm already giving them a lot more than they're giving me.