Skybox Security?

Normal avatar flying speed is 20 m/s.

I normally fly around 8 m/s at low levels, and I still run into stuff.

Back in 2005 it wasn't like this. Stuff would rez for you as you approached it. You could fly across sim boundaries without problems. Sim-sim handoffs and teleporting were handled differently, though. Teleporting was basically logging out and logging in again.

I admit that it's much worse than I'd thought for seeing what's ahead. I only normally fly in my local area.

hehe. It tickled me when it happened lol

You just have to hope the text was tongue-in-cheek...since LL is unlikely to add a new color to the Property Owners palette (you know: owned by you, owned by other, owned by Governor, up for sale, and Sociopath Lives Here).

Of course, I made a mistake. I had my draw distance at 64m so I was hardly likely to see the ground below. I just did another run with my draw distance at 128m and, although I could see bits of stuff in front and below me, it wasn't possible to enjoy the landscape at the normal av speed. I went lower to try and get worthwhile trip out of it and actually see stuff properly. I didn't really see things properly. What I did see were structures suddenly start to rez right in front of me.

It hasn't changed what I found before. I still take Argent's point about not seeing things until it's too late - at least down near the ground. Next up - a flight towards a skybox

Well it didn't try to kill me, so the text was a bit tongue in cheek. But it was without any warning, so it meant.

How about a free security system, that also has a paired "warning" system for those who use vehicles? You could be notified if the system notices that you are headed right for the secured area and allow you to steer clear before you even go over that person's land?

Say a drop-in script (could add it to any existing vehicle) that would listen for sim-wide messages from the security system. It would know the location of the security system, and would know if you are headed right for the protected area because it would know the boundaries that the security protects. It could...

1. Let you know the number of protected parcels in the simulator
2. Let you know protected altitudes or safe altitudes (as calculated)
3. Let you know which one you were headed right for and were going to violate.

Of course everyone would need to be using the system for it to work, or all major security orb systems would need to sign-on to a common protocol for exchange of information.

That wasn't much better. With my draw distace at 64m, I flew straight towards where I know there is a skybox. 1 to 2 seconds before I got to it, a few of the objects that are inside appeared ahead of me, and the wall suddenly rezzed about 0.2 seconds before I hit it. I may even have had an advantage because it's my skybox and it's not a rare thing me to be there. I used my alt, but she was there as recenly as yesterday - we both were - and she may well have had the textures in her cache.

This is something of an eye-opener.

I am not questioning that you've heard all this. Nevertheless, all I can find in the Knowledge Base on the topic is, And I can nowhere find anything in, for example, or to the effect landowners shouldn't use "scripted objects to enhance [their] land ownership tools" above the level of banlines on the Mainland because of some right to free access to the airspace above it.

I don't think it can be right to infer this right from the fact that The commonsense interpretation of that is that it's so the landowner to permit general access to his land to users of vehicles on the same basis he permits it to anyone else without having to worry that he's thereby allowing people to rez all manner of stuff on his land, not that it's one of a "Second Life Resident's personal freedoms" to take his vehicle wherever he wants on the mainland above the ban-line limit.

Things may very well still be as apparently they were when you heard all this some years ago. It just seems a bit odd that something so important is nowhere stated, at least not that I can see, where people who weren't around at the time might expect to find it, even in explicit discussions of scripted security objects.

If a channel can be agreed, I would think that security device makers would be willing to issue a sim-wide Say, stating their positions. Airplanes do that - they repeatedly and automatically broadcast information about themselves.

The big problem lies with the devices that are already in users' possession. Some makers may be able to send a group message and offer an upgrade, but others, such as myself, couldn't do the group message. Even so, getting started is a good thing. Over time, the use of it will spread and any devices that do it are better than none doing it.

Flyers only need an attachment to listen to the channel. It doesn't have to involve vehicle makers, and it could be used by normal av flight - such as the Flight Feather

Right; but look at the last line from the knowledgebase...



Being able to freely fly across the mainland is a personal freedom on the mainland. This also includes getting to your destination whether it is flying your avatar, or in a vehicle. That is why if your security system is not allowing people free passage over and through your land at reasonably high altitudes above your parcel of land (several hundred meters above), you need to make it possible for them to do so. When you are unceremoniously teleported home (with your vehicle probably flying unmanned to God knows where, possibly lost forever if it's not copy enabled, this does happen) when you did nothing wrong...then it's a problem.

Well it doesn't necessarily have to be something the security device manufacturers need to support at all. It could just be a script that you, as the owner of the prim, could just "plunk" in and it would handle all of that based upon some simple settings. (Of course this would only work if you have modify rights to the prim and they don't have some crazy security where they look for unknown scripts). If that doesn't work, you could just put the script somewhere else in your build.

Trouble is, if not all of the major security makers add this in by default, NOBODY is going to think to add it. I would surmise that hardly anyone (as a percentage of the SL population) is even reading this thread, or really care how their security system affects others.

I don't think that anyone would disagree with that. But what you can't say is that landowners, therefore, should not use a security device at any level because someone might want to fly through at that level. That would be a gross misinterpretation of it. We haven't been discussing the prevention of people flying over the land. We've been discussing the right of a landowner to use a security device for a skybox, which necessarily means that it covers just a small part of the column above the land.

That's true as far as it goes but I think it would advanatageous if security device makers/sellers included it as standard. If it's only down to people adding a script or another object, it requires people to get to know about it and for them to think it matters. Also, it would be best not to transmit when the security device is turned off, or you fliers would be avoiding places that don't need to be avoided.

I think you just have to be reasonable. I upped the default "courtesy" timeout in my security device to 120 seconds because of that. Why have 10second timeouts? 30 second timeouts? That's barely enough time to realize that you are not where you thought you were, and even less time to react. I'm thinking of adding in the ability of my security device to pre-notify people that it "thinks" are going to enter the "Forbidden Zone" (based on their elevation, trajectory and speed) with the option to "opt-out" of future "pre-warnings" if they want (for say a neighbor that's getting these triggered falsly). It could look out an extra 1000 meters and analyze all this.

This would be great. One thing though: I think it would have to use llShout instead of llRegionSay because the ones that really sneak up on you are just over the sim border.

Actually, it would be handy to have just for walking around, too.

Once, a year ago or so, I was out on a "house call" trying to figure out why somebody's sim was lagging, and got caught by a pair of secured parcels that used llEjectFromLand(). I've never understood how that function determines where to deposit the carcass, but these two parcels tossed me back and forth between them, over and over, until I got bored with it and TP'd out of the sim.

Hmmm. Okay, well, it seemed funny at the time.

Reasonable is all that any of us on this side of the discussion has been. It's you who was unreasonable by appearing to not want any security devices up there. Perish the thought that a flier might just hit one at whatever level it's at

And not only at the time. It made me laugh

Yeah, but don't my remarks on that very point in the second half of my post merit any sort of reply? Show me, please, something, somewhere, where it says that Not something that might possibly be interpreted as meaning that if that's what you already think is the case, but something someone who was coming to it with no prior knowledge might read and think, "ah, it's clearly a matter of personal freedom to fly freely across the mainland so I'd better not put up a security orb on this bit of mainland I've just bought, just as I can see I shouldn't put up bugging devices and the like"

I never said no security devices. I even make one. My point is that we have to share the mainland skies because it's a shared resource. LL never intended you to build builds up in the sky when they put in the parcel security measures. They intended the skies to be for free flight. Since people build up there now, there are some sharing issues that must be addressed.

It's nothing to do with what LL intended many years ago. It is everything to do with they way things are. Skyboxes have been a common part of SL since before I arrived 3 years ago and I don't recall ever seeing a single word said against them. So forget what you heard many years ago. It doesn't apply nwo. May I remind you that LL also intended not to create so much land that SL seemed empty, and what did they do? LL's early intentions are irrelevant.

And the sky space is not a shared resource. It is resource that is commonly used by all and sundry IF, and only if, the land owner allows it. Are you sure you don't want demo? Pleading "common resource" won't make any difference to your lack of ability to use the sky above my land

Their thinking seems to have changed with the increase of the build limit to 4096 meters.

Then why haven't they increased banlines up to 4096sqm? Seems to be a simple thing and then security devices wouldn't be necessary. People wouldn't get stuck in builds.

They increased the height to 4096 because they wanted to allow it. It didn't now make the skies offlimits to everyone else.

The relevant question is, why did they increase the build height?

Perhaps they consider scripted security devices adequate.

Regardless of their thinking on that, build limits are increased and flight is no longer unrestricted.