FOX News is gonna RUIN SL with this video!

Hmm self verification? That' sounds effective
Yeah kid can steal their parents CC, not all kids can, and if they want to grief it only works once.
And if people want to set up 100 false griefing or bot accounts they need to steal 100 CC numbers.

parenting is even more effective when combined with teaching kids right from wrong

teaching the kids that doing wrong has consequences is a wonderful thing too

If you want to make sure the precious innocents are not getting in trouble online... put the computer in a public room of the house. Have them come to you for access to the online world on that computer... and watch the kids.

Don't complain if a kid bypasses a verification scheme that requires data that is checked (credit cards and licenses against a digital database) because they stole a parent's information and lied to the company doing the checking. They did their part, the parent's didn't do theirs.

A combination of things is required of course no one system will work alone, but if they all have some effect, the final result is better security. we can't rely on everyone keeping their kids from getting on SL and involving us unknowingly in underaged activity, so we need other measures as well, to protect us too.

Wise words spoken like a parent......
Those that are not parents don`t understand this, these days with all the data and resources Kids can get anything online personal INFO, credit Card Data etc........what you expect these days when they don`t even pay for software programs. They think everything is theirs and they don`t have to pay for a thing. Thats where parents needs to explain if you can`t afford it then either get a job or save up. If your not of age, you better not be using my personal infor because if you do you going to be in deep poo.....

The current systems work just fine (once age verification is out of beta)

If you want a system that results in hindering legit users from enjoying an entertainment service... then said service will lose users.

The systems in place will work just fine, especially is said innocents getting past them are forced to face the consequences for juvenile delinquency for the actions they took to get online.

A company is not supposed to be raising kids, it takes reasonable precautions to keep them out and relies on parents to do their part.


This is an argument that reminds me of the reasoning of the mom's and dad's that buy the 12 year old GTA to shut them up in the walmart and blame the game company for producing a game with a rating on the front cover that they as a parent should have looked at.

True, we may hinder some legitusers, but to hinder them for the sake of restricting a far greater number of non-legit users is a fair price to pay as we can't trust everyone to watch their kids properly.
But this is how the world is going, in my field of metal industry, everything in the last 10 years has had to become doubly idiot proof to protect people from their own stupidity as they bypass the first layers of saftey around machinery, 2nd & 3rd layers are having to be implememted.
Workers no longer turn machines off when they go home, we have to put sleep timers on them, oscillating fans are adjusted with tie wire to prevent them oscilating, then they wonder why they burnout. And these are the newest batch of "adults".

Or we can make those that commit fraud in order to gain unauthorized access face the consequences for it and take reasonable rather than extreme measures.

It's covered in the terms of service, and in the verification procedures. So by providing false information they accept full consequences for it, and the company is not responsible.

If you want a guarantee that no kids get on a service for adults - close the service or require verification chips implanted in the users.

It's basically like asking the night club to require a verified birth certificate, mother's maiden name, and proof of 6 months residency in order to come in and dance versus showing a driver's license at the door because some teenager might get a false id that lets them slip through

But whom? the person doing it or the parents that child got the data from?



Here the thong, those newbie portals don`t have any real email checkers on them. They get right in regaurdless of personal data or not......



Little would you know of one The others thats LL lack of there for....

The child that lies and provides fake information should at least get some community service, and as a minor their record is sealed at 18

If you or I enter false information to access places we should not, we can be found guilty and serve years behind bars for it.

Making a kid pick up trash in a park for doing it at least tells them it's wrong and there are consequences




And age verification is in beta, the portals do need be adjusted (and if you enter a false email, they don't send the verification link to log into second life... some already do this)

But there is still the TOS, if the data is invalid the account can be terminated or simply locked till the information is corrected to valid data.

Formost you will see is a shutting down of those "laughable" newbie portals until LL puts some better system for checking. ( maybe thats what the BEta age system wil be for when its ready ). Remeber we are reaching the 2nd year of lifting of the signups 6/6/2006 .

As for "invalid the account" this applies when said person omits he/she is under 18 they just delete the account without warning. I seen this happen when i reported someone they checked and they just deleted them. If they lied about the data in their personal data ( age) then they should go after the parent and as you said let the local laws ( intheir counry ) handle the kid.

we can't guarantee kids won't get in but to use the nightclub example, what we have now is a dumb bouncer who asks you if you are over 18 and if any kid wearing a set of Karl Marx glasses & nose with platform shoes says yes they are allowed in, without asking for any verification at all.

do you even have any children to understand this issue? doesnt sound like it

Doesn't matter if someone has kids now or not. We were all kids at one point, and I still remember what I was capable of when I was under 18, even if you don't, Usagi. My parents planted CACTUS under my bedroom window, so I couldn't sneak out at night. Guess who used hedge trimmers?

It was NOT the responsibility of the general public to ensure my safety. It WAS my parents' responsibility.

I really don't think it helps to hide the world from our children. I work online and my son has been at a computer since he could sit up. I didn't try to hide the "bad stuff" instead I told him all about it and let him run free on the Internet. I told him all about the predators and why they might want to get at him and made sure he knew how to keep safe, I explained pornography, online gambling, virtual worlds, role playing, etc. He's 18 now & has never had a problem, as a matter of fact he has helped friends who were very much monitored online but still managed to get into trouble. Because I was so open about it talked to me about his online activities, we discussed it rationally, not judgmentally.

You can't hide the world from your children and it's naive to think that they can't handle the truth at young ages - trust me, they're getting exposed to it anyway. And yes, he has viewed tons of online porn. He also has a very healthy respect for women. OMG - how can that be? Is it possible that maybe sex isn't a bad thing after all?

So would I be alarmed to hear of a 10 year old in an SL rape room? Nope. Not knowing what I know now after raising my son completely openly. My biggest lesson in motherhood:

The only thing you can really teach your child is to think for himself and you have to allow them access to all that is to do that.

Linden Lab refuse to use credit card based verification, it would be a vast improvement on the Integrity solution, especially if there was a nominal fee associated with it. What we have now in the nightclub situation would be a 15 year old showing the bouncer my driving licence and being granted entry.

The whole adult flagging issue is a nonsense too.

</character>

Please take this as a compliment... You sound like my parents. I remember starting my porn stash back when I was around 9 or so by stealing from my dad's collection. I didn't know until I was moving out at 19 that my parents knew about it all along. They were selectively confiscating it to keep me from going too far, but they really did decide to let me think for myself and take responsibility for my own actions.

Sure, I finally did turn into a deviant. But, my tastes are safe in my own way of thinking and I prefer to NOT get RL people involved at all.

Still, the problem I have with underage access to SL is not what the kids have access to. It's more, who has access to the kids.

<character> (>_<

Ok so it doesnt matter then.........yea sure.........If you don`t understand how much parents do and do not have control over then you would understand. Yes it does matter if your have children of not. Oh yes rember doing a few things my parents didnt approve of. But Its a who different story between being a parent and those days as a kid doing crazy things....As for protection to the point of never allowing them out is just a extreme thought with no realy meaning..........You have to be a parent to understand the importance of guildance and care taking.....I use to think like ou but now i don`t anymore having your own changes you.

I think it seriously matters. A kid can't be stalked by magazines and videos. But a kid in an anonymous social gathering loaded with alternative lifestyles is a dangerous situation no matter how you look at it. (>_<

I had a stepdaughter for a few years, so I have some experience in parenting, but I don't see parenting as really being relevant , as we are talking also of the behaviour of adults here to children online.
You can't say we don't need some level of age verification because everyone controls the children online or explains the content to them.

/me adds VWR-7219. Feel free to comment and/or vote..



http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7219

No one under the age of 18 is allowed on any part of the adult grid. Presumably people 18 or over can decide for themselves what parts of the grid they want to experience.

Where did I say that people under 18 should be allowed access to the main grid? This is pretty clearly, IMO, a way for people who provide 'public' access to SL to limit people using their PCs to PG regions.

Well thats all good and said, but a short sightness on llabs part doesnt pardon them for allowing them without min amount of logical provention........oh well i keep forgeting its about money these days and not what the real applies to LLABS. Since they keep forgetting that rl does have real Lawas of their own.

I raised my boys with the same reasoning as you. We're a very open family and there has never been any problems. I remember when I was a kid, the things I was told NOT to do, are the ones I WANTED to do. Wait a minute, Im still that way.

Even with credit card verification, little bobby can get daddy's credit card and verify.

Most are not going to notice the verification part in the monthly statement. (seems most just look at the totals and pay the amount due for the month)


Thing to remember: By law all a company has to provide is a simple box that makes the user of their service tell them they are of legal age to use said service. So you can lie and commit a crime and access it while underage (and the parents and all have a scapegoat for collecting votes... and wasting tax payer money that could be spent on add campaigns that let parents know how to put a password on a computer and monitor the kids online)

When they get the verification systems working then things will be great except age verification is still going to be optional like payment information.... because LL knows a good portion of the user base isn't going to go through the hassle.

I mean it's like the video stores... they have the open areas for all ages (the teen grid so to speak) and the back room where the more mature to XXX titles are with a sign saying nobody under 18 past this point (the adult grid)

Would you still rent the NC-17 and R rated movies there if you had to drop off all sorts of documentation before getting access to said mature area? Or would you expect them to kick out the kids that enter the back room and likely send the parents packing as well?