Does Identity Verification mean ban for all home sexual interacts??

No thank you.... I think I will watch a German crimmy instead.

Morwen.

I read the examples of why Western Europe is so "liberated" and none actually describe anything much different than happens here.

Men walking around topless at beaches, parks, on the street ? Happens here. Heck youll see women topless from time to time in Rock Concerts. And New Orleans.

Nude beaches near the center of town? Sure in theres a Private clothing optional beach in naples RIGHT down the way from the main Naples public beach.

Strip clubs? They are all over the place.

Prostitution is common, open any phone book and theres Dozens of Escort agencies advertized. Sure its techinically illegal, but its rarely enforced.

Theres plenty of sex on TV here - Real world, etc. Sure they dont show nipples or frontal nudity. But its still pretty blatant.

IF you go to the clubs there are plenty of scantily clad people.

And I live in Ohio which is far from as cosmopolitan as New York.

Heck Ive seen (more than once) people having sex in parking lots.

-----------------------
Okay in the interest of Cable companies bottom lines they will self censor some language.

Ill accept that in Europe its more open - especially with reguards to bare breasts.

But people are kidding themselves to claim America isnt a highly sexually liberated country.

With all due respect, Collette, the "wardrobe malfunction" that caused a national hissy fit here would just be a normal commercial there.

It is different.

I'm not saying America is as up tight as Saudi Arabia by a long shot. But in Germany, at least (where I have family, and have seen some of the culture), people are a whole lot less likely to go ZOMGWTFBBQNAKEDBUTT! than they are in the U.S. It's not just the female breast, but the whole human body, as far as I can tell, that is "seen" differently here and there.

And you can't write off the prostitution difference. There is a world of difference between legalized and regulated and illegal and prosecuted.

I read many things about the so called Freedom of Speech in the US.... and many things about that there is not such a thing.

I cannot tell... I never been to the US. But friends who have been there told me things that made me ponder very much....

(meaning.... reading is just one thing... )

Morwen.

Collette is certainly capable of defending herself, but it seems as though she is completely qualified to comment on the culture of the US and she is qualified to comment on how we are perceived by other countries and why those perceptions are to a significant extent, incorrect. We are subjected to other people's low opinions of us on a constant basis, so we are well aware of how we are perceived. The US is crap because gambling is banned; the US is prudish, unenlightened, warmongering, colonialist, unfair in its trade regulations and treaties, hates Africans, Palestinians, the environment and Asia, etc, etc, etc. We are qualified to comment on how we are perceived because nobody holds back on what their perceptions are, or what their press and their friends have told them that their perceptions should be.

Can we stop this now? As much as I dislike some of the decisions my elected leaders have made, this is my home, and I love it, just like my European friends love their home countries, and I'm feeling a little beat up and defensive today.

The "R" ratings and other vaguely worded restrictions bring up the problem of privacy within SL vis-a-vis other avatars. The proposal made earlier to block content of mature parcels to non-age-verified avatars is one useful approach. However, it does not eliminate other concerns. There can still be problems with age-verified residents - because of complaining busybodies, griefers, vindictive people with a grudge, others of every description with an axe to grind, neurotic Peeping Toms, etc. For that, more is needed.

More is available! There is a JIRA paroposal to create "3D permission zones" that would block abuse of camera controls to invade privacy. The only reason there is no real privacy in SL is that no-one has done anything serious about it. Here is your chance to.

The proposal is called SVC-99. Go vote on it. Please do it now, before you forget. It is at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-99

There are also other privacy-enhancing proposals you can vote on at a meta-proposal, SVC-241. Go to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-241 and peruse.

OK OK THIS IS IMPORTANT I think most of us would like privacy ...

Linden Labs are very good at one thing..........and that's to shoot itself in the foot!
Worst still they have this extraordinary ability of introducing rules without listening to the general consensus of their customer base (the end-user)

It's my opinion that this latest move marks the beginning of the end in terms of
Second Life being the market leader of the Metaverse enviroment. We already know other platforms are springing up. I have been pondering for a few weeks now about going to a Plan B should SL go tits up. The CEO of HipiHi (chinese version) for example stated he wants to open up his platform globally similar to that of SL. OpenSIM is another platform that is mirroring SL and is at its infancy stages.....and there will be more coming soon!

I have spent a great deal of money in SL (thankfully most from recycled profits)
and time developing my businesses, i would be foolhardy now to continue having all my eggs in 1 basket that is SL whilst it goes through its downward spiral!

Here are several reasons why :

Basically LL wants us to do their dirty work for them. This could have all been avoided with better planning. From the outset LL should have made it requirement to join its Adult platform by at least registering Payment Info on file (e.g credit card)......instead their ego allowed them to go for huge growth in a short span of time. Most of its users register with very little personal information. The 8/9m users number is over inflated IMO as a large percentage of that are either ALTS or camping bots.

I would like to say even with CC verifcation from the outset it still would not have prevented minors from accessing the grid. The onus should be on the parents to set Parental controls on their kids or shared computers. End of story!

By agreeing the LL TOS from the outset, I'm ageeing that i'm an Adult user. LL should enforce their own breaches of TOS otherwise it become meaningless.

The SL online users figure has been stagnant for quite awhile, i've been looking at 45k online users since around May. The stunted growth is due a variety of reasons some of which LL can take the blame for

- Gambling ban, : Because Mr Bush decided to piggy back an additional law on another which he knew would be passed by the Senate. Designed to appease the Gambling industry or satisfy IRS (pick which one). Result : SL users lose their investments which leads to mass dumping of land, not to mention taking away the enjoyment for many.

- Removal of 1st Land to Noobs : A promise broken by LL because they could not police it. The system effectively allowed Landbarons to gobble up land cheaply via unpoliced ALTS....some got wealthy this way (e.g A certain prominent Chinese AV?)

- Allowing Land Bots - How many land owners have lost loads of money through this process? Result : Does not inspire confidence or growth in Mainland sales to normal users wanting to set up home.

- Dumping of more SIM's : Seems without economic foresight LL are just dumping SIM's daily forcing the land sq/m price downwards. Since around Apr/May LL have dumped around 1000 new sims on the East Continents. Result: large swathe of unoccupied lands or a mass "For Sale" signs by the landcutters. Many landowners who bought plots prior
to Apr/May are sitting on large valuation losses! Who cares?.......LL certainly don't!

- Ginko Bank fiasco : Due to LL lax regulations or non-existance of any form of banking regulations allowed a Ponzi-style scheme to develop in-world Result : Customers lose around 750k US dollars (real money)....again leading to more selling of land and exodus out of SL.

- WSE Fraud : Don't know how much was stolen or how it happened....but the result is the same......some people suffered!

- Grid stability : basically it sucks and VOICE has not helped. Result : users become impatient who can't see any light at the end of the tunnel and will eventually leave to seek out alternative games or platforms

- Negative Publicity : ARD TV (German) highlighting under-aged sex in world, even though it was performed by 2 consenting adults (RL) Result : LL attempt to rectify via Age Verification after the horse has bolted.......ho hum! Reality : Majority of SL users will not become age verified by choice.....in some cases are restricted from providing that info because of local laws.

- Economic downslope : some would say its seasonal (summer months)....i would say include most of the above factors


Coming your way soon :


- Introducing AC 10 Linden products : as publicised on SLEX, the intent of flooding an already fragile marketplace with 10 Linden quality products in almost all sectors.
Result : Many smaller to medium size content creators will go to the wall and eventually leave SL. SL as a whole will be the greatest loser should that happen!


- Sex Trade & Content creators - Where to sell your products now? Malls with these type of products for sale will have to flag up their lands. That's the simple part! But where will the traffic come from ? The potential customer? You can be sure most onliners won't be doing the Age verifcation thing! Result : read above


So more doom and gloom and not much to cheer about in the horizon as the game becomes even more sanitised.........hence for me at least it's time go to a Plan B!

Group hug?

You forgot to mention to have a president who wants to forbid gays as me to marry by constuation (sp) laws.... JUST KIDDING....

You are right, Trout... there are more important things in life. I love my country as you do yours. And oh... my country isn't heaven.... just has a shine of paradise *winks*

Morwen.

There are wardrobe malfunctions that happen constantly in the US and they do not get press at all, just some photos go op on the internet if they are taken.

The bit to do was it was the Super Bowl. And that the malfunction was intentional. And the super bowl is a family event. And the Media saw ratings. I dont think the actual nudity offended many people I know.

Posters have said themselves the nudity on TV in Europe is for after hours stuff.

Would a famous singer exposing her breasts in the middle of a World cup broadcast be more or less resported than just a C list celebrity on a red carpet at some no name event?



And yet it was a German Tabloid news program which broke the ageplay story about somethign that was happening between 2 adults.



But the distinction is less when its illegal and RARELY prosectued.

On re-reading this clause, I'm getting a completely different impression about the IDV policy as an imperative. Perhaps someone could clear this up.

Everett says, "Resident can raise concerns directly with the landowner or with Linden Lab via the Abuse channel." But does not go on to imply any enforcement against that landowner, simply says, "Residents are morally, socially and legally responsible for their actions and content in Second Life. Clearly, any illegal activity or content will be investigated and appropriate action will be taken."

If there is no illegal activity taking place on that land, investigation will show that. If it happens that there are minors taking part in restricted content, then the landowner is "morally, socially and legally responsible". What the 'appropriate action' is would depend on age of participant consent, and likely on the participant's consent regardless of age. If you have nothing but consenting adults taking part in their freedom of expression and sexual lifestyles, then you are still morally, socially and legally responsible, and the 'appropriate action' would be no action at all.

However, this is the creepy part of the implication, if there is the involvement of non-consenting participants or participants below the age of consent on your land, that land would be protected from abuse complaints by the 'restricted' flag. This doesn't suggest that a landowner participating in IDV by flagging their parcel 'restricted' is no longer "morally, socially and legally responsible," only that they are not likely to be investigated for appropriate action because complaints will be unlikely.

Perhaps this is just another way to smoke out predators seeking children and the children who put themselves at risk by falsifying their identity. After all, I don't know many honest adults who don't object to risking their privacy or giving identity info away to data peddlers. I don't know many responsible adult businesses who would like to be ghetto-ized among nominally 'Mature' lands with a patently XXX label like 'Restricted'.

Sorry Collete.... the 3 porn channels I have on my digital subscriptions are sadly 24/7....

Just wanted to correct that....
*backs off making peace symbols in all directions*

Morwen.

Then come up with examples that show how much more sexually liberated Europe is.

Becuase so far the ones Ive seen here, and in the Media and from conversations with both visitors to Europe and even from Europeans have not really shown me as significant a difference as people claim.

People who have been to both places shoudl be able to give better examples, right? But when I hear them they always ignore what goes on in the US for real in order to slant their posistion.

Ahh of course your porn channels would have aired the superbowl then?

And why might that be?

Morwen.

For some... most certainly. Sex is a great way of sports.....

You knew that having good sex weights to jogging 15km?

Morwen.

I can't see how gay marriage has any legitimate negative impact on anyone's life at all. That's the test I go by when I decide whether to support an issue or not, so if I were president, I'd marry you myself. Preside over the marriage - you know what I mean. Actually, I think I'd have to become a minister or judge first, but if nothing else, I'd support you 100%. Hell, as president, I'd lobby Congress to give me the authority to preside over marriages. That sounds like fun.

Every country has slices of paradise, including the US. Someday, I'd love to see Europe again, especially Amsterdam, which I missed on the first go-around. I just get tired of being stereotyped as some sort of unenlightened, prudish, backwoods bumpkin who isn't as good as others because of his place of birth. I know none of this was directed at me personally, but I guess I take it that way when people make broad generalizations about what Americans are like. It turns out that a few of us are ok people. By the way, that's not directed at you, Morwen, I really didn't get that vibe off of you.

@Cherry: Yes, please. I could use one today. Can we keep the Norwegians out of it, though? They smell like Lutefisk. (just kidding)

That national hissy fit was greatly exaggerated by the very media that was reasponsible for it, a few political demagogues on both sides of the fence and The Corporate Overlords who hold the true power. And for the prseident who doesn't want gays to marry, thankfully he will be gone in a couple of months, replaced by someone who assuredly will be just as much of an idiot

Sadly for many Amsterdam means the Red Light Destrict.....

But what about the "Keizers gracht", the many parks, the Kuiperstraat (where I was born ^ ^), the many old buildings.... as Carre....

You are right about "broad generalizations". Same about drugs, most have not the slightest idea how the rules/laws here really are....

Edit: You know how I am addressed often when I tell I am from The Netherlands....: Ohhhh Holland.... Whores... Weed... Tullips.... (and if I am lucky they don't mention clogs and windmills).

Morwen.

/me admits to visiting the clothing optional PUBLIC Beach near her home. And to being topless on Bourbon Street.....once. But I still kept my panties on.

That's the point, isn't it. I'm not interested in going to Amsterdam to smoke pot and check out prostitutes. From what I've been able to see without going there, the art, music and history would blow me away, and I'd love to see it firsthand. If I just listened to the generalizations, I'd think it was nothing but hookers and junkies. Welcome to the world perception of the US. Just in my home state, I'd show you the alpine lakes of the Cascades, sunset over the Pacific from a cliff in the Olympics, The apple orchards and wine vineyards of Eastern Washington, salmon fighting upstream in the Kalama, little logging towns with their history rooted in the American West. We could take a ferry out to an island in the Sound and see a Native American village, get some insight into their culture and enjoy an authentic meal, then catch the club scene in Seattle where grunge was born. Olympia has a beautiful Capitol campus. Mt St. Helens from the Johnston Ridge Observatory is awe-inspiring, and if you don't mind a hike, it will bring you to tears from Harry's Ridge. That's just one state out of 50, and I haven't even scratched the surface here.

You would see a few prudes, some morons and maybe a jackass or two, but I bet the majority of the people you meet are nothing like the way Americans are portrayed to Europeans.

Simple reasons really, the old Fish Story.

My point was the channels your cable company provides are not yout Public TV.

Just becuase your standard package includes them for free doesnt change them from being adult channels.

We can get the same sorts of channels by paying for them,

The only thing that proves is your cable company is more financially liberated than mine is.

My fish is bigger then your fish?

Morwen.