Direction, percieved unfairness, and the mainstream

That's sort of the thing - the role I'd like isn't necessarily _subtle_, but it does have the potential to contribute in a positive way. That's why I originally thought about Immy and Marianne, because they do that. (I say it isn't subtle because if it's _too_ subtle, you're doing the "well I might just be dancing at a club but in my head I'll believe I'm X" thing, which I really don't enjoy or honestly see the point of).

I know there's lots of different places, but most of them seem to be empty when I visit And those that are not are usually completely defined by their theme. I mean, if I go to somewhere that's for people with a particular hobby, they're probably going to be discussing that hobby and aren't likely to want to break out into anything to do with me RPing.



Well, no, I mean the problem is that I'm not very comfortable with doing that kind of thing if people obviously don't want or like me and I get that impression from the kind of thing I see on this thread - such as people constantly coming up with excuses and dodges to answer questions. I mean, for those people who are saying I should take responsibility for myself, I am - it's just I can't ask for help purely for myself because, since I don't expect you to particularly care about me, why would you bother?

You have not posted any information on creating avatars, socialising builds, or aligning prims. This is the information that I specifically said that I wanted. If you have posted 50 times on matters other than these, that's your choice, not mine, and you shouldn't be surprised that I'm still asking for information.

We're not dodging, Yumi. Seriously. We're trying to come up with an answer that you can understand, and it's frustrating. It's almost like you're deliberately misunderstanding... but you don't seem to be trolling.

Look... there's been dozens of people all telling you the same thing. We can't all be dodging questions the same way. Do you think we're conspiring behind your back or something?

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Here's your OP, Yumi:

"Direction, percieved unfairness, and the mainstream

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I apologize for having devolved the previous thread. But thinking about it more, there were some generally interesting points that came up there, namely:

Most people in SL accept the tradeoff of SL not being fair in exchange for benefits. But, would the mainstream?

The reason I have been thinking about this is that I've observed - in myself, and in others I've interacted with, both adults and children - that when people say that something is "unfair", often what they actually mean is nothing to do with actual fairness, but that they perceive it as leaving them with no direction. And directionlessness seems to be among the top reasons why people don't stick with SL - so I'm wondering if they're tied together, or if these two different concepts of unfairness have come unstuck at some point.
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I don't see any questions about creating avatars, socialising builds or aligning prims. People are trying to respond still to your original post but you seem to have departed from the fairness issue, and are now talking about aligning prims and socialising builds?

My original post wasn't personal to me, so any posts about "You.." can't possibly be responding to it. And yes - I _am_ still interested in that matter - if SL, in the face of competitors (including, but not limited to, BM), and the apparent failure of the platform strategy, will have to start shifting to avoid alienating users in general via "you just have to deal with it".

As I said.. nobody has said anything about the three things I specifically said I wanted information about.

I mean, you can constantly talk about SL being fair, or me taking responsibility for myself, or those things if you wish. But the very fact you're choosing to talk about those just reconfirms my belief that they're not true. As I said, if I took responsibility for myself then I would just be asking for help for myself and nobody would care. I mean, I've had that before - I said to someone in-world, "I wish I could build like that" and she went off on a great line about how it was a talent (thus implicitly assuming I didn't have it - I'm not saying I do, but the fact she assumed it is notable) and I shouldn't expect too much. I actually just wanted to know where she got her glass texture from..

What is fair?

Perceptions on this often differ.

Many people in online communities define 'fair' as self-benefiting. Ie: If they get the most, it is fair.

And in western countries, that often applies in RL as well. We uphold a notion of liberty for all, but most people define fair in a very selfish way despite that. Ie: Fair is what benefits me - that's the social norm of the modern 'capitalist democracy'.

More group-minded cultures tend to define fair in a tribal sense. What is best for -their- group is fair, even when it harms individual members or other outside groups. This is a very common perception to find in eastern societies and legal norms.

Next is the majoritarian view: Fair is what benefits the greatest number, even if it harms myself or significant minorities. Most people who claim to believe this actually don't find it fair when they encounter it. Most social and legal norms are built for this system though.

Very rare is the egalitarian ideal: Fair is what benefits the whole, even when it harms the majority in order to prevent the minority from being disadvantaged. This ideal sounds the best, but is almost universally rejected in practice. Even though many western legal norms are built to uphold it.

Is that something you asked in another thread? Is this thread about something you asked in another thread I haven't even read and that most of the people here probably have no more idea about than I?

Either that or you asked it in a way that nobody could figure out what you were asking. Like this:
Then you should have said "where did you get your glass texture from" instead of something that sounds like a random compliment.

I've mentioned three things in this thread and none of them were answered so far.



Well, I can't really just ask a stranger to tell me something potentially valuable out of the blue, surely. And besides, it was indirectly asking for something.

Yumi: "How do you socialize a build?"
Us: "That depends on the build, tell us more?"
Yumi: "Can't, it's embarrassing."
Us: "..."

Yes, you can. Absolutely.

Well, the basic problem of "Why would people who are happy where they are, want to go somewhere else?" applies no matter what the build is. Plus, you could make it a free variable.



Why would they care?

Which people? Where do you want them to go? Why? If there was a general answer to that we could all fire our marketing departments and save a bunch of money.
People tend to like talking about things they like doing.

I don't see that these specifics actually matter. Why would _anyone_ leave somewhere where they were happy?



But apparently not with me.

Make some place that makes them happier?

You aren't asking "where did you get that texture".

Why would they leave the place they are happy in to look around?



Sure I am, and they weren't talking about what they were doing anyway, they were talking about how it was a talent and I couldn't demand to have it.

They're not fucking nailed to the fucking terrain. How do you get them to go have a look? That's marketing, and it's VERY situation specific.
That's because you said "I wish I could do that" instead of "that's a cool texture, where did you get it". Sheesh.

Why would they even be looking at any marketing? It seems to me that they've fiinished making their choice. I abandoned two projects because of that.



Well, they're the same. I couldn't do it (in this case because I didn't have the texture), and I wanted to be able to.

I replied (#136) to two of them:



But you replied that this wasn't the point.

FWIW, here are some ideas for attracting people to your build:

- make it unique and well-built to give people a reason to want to see it;
- hold a grand opening party and publicize it here under the "Special Attractions" subforum, across the street under the "Events" subforum, and in the LL events calendar;
- regularly hold events - discussions, DJs, hunts, etc. - to keep interest up and publicize weekly;
- create a group people can join for news about events and changes to the build, and reward group members with good freebies/perqs;
- buy a classified ad

All of these suggestions are vague because you haven't specified exactly what you want to build. As I said before, ask specific questions if you want specific answers.

Yumi,

Do you ever go to the Forum Cartel Hangout? Why don't you show up there a few times? And give people a chance to run across you? Give it a try!

That's the sixty four thousand dollar question. The answer is another question: "why do companies spend so much money on marketing departments".
No, they're not. If you want answers to a specific question, you ask a specific question.

EG: Don't drop a random question in the middle of a thread about how things suck for you. Post a new thread asking how to align prims, with that in the subject line, to the building forum.

I have been there a few times, but it's usually empty - probably a timezone thing.



*nod* It was kind of you to post the information, but the negative feeling I had came from the fact that others had pointedly avoided giving it, not from the fact I didn't have it. Plus, of course, telling me how popular Prim Docker is isn't much fun for me



But this essentially means I have no hope against other builders who have had more practice.

You know the solution to that.

What, practice for two years just in order to make something that is still more likely than not to fail? Again, if that's the "deal" SL is offering, it won't cut it when competitors appear.

Yes. It's what everyone else does.
There's lots of competitors to SL, many of which are more popular than SL. They are competitors in the broad sense, of course, because they don't fill QUITE the same niche.

The thing is, the deal SL is offering is, to a very deep level, precisely SL's niche. ANY product that is actually competing for the same niche as SL will have the same deal. If it doesn't have that deal, it won't BE in the same niche.

And certainly that will never be mainstream.

And, there are several ways to avoid "that deal" while remaining in the same niche. Here's a few I can think of quickly:
- Constantly improve building tools over time, so that what the great builder took a month to do 2 years ago, a novice can do in five minutes now.
- Offer better facilities for grouping and better incentives for visiting new places.
- Offer better facilities for suggesting things that people want that do not exist.