Direction, percieved unfairness, and the mainstream

If the captain put me in that position it's a good chance she doesn't like me. If she is happy with me staying there it is a further sign of the same.

That asking people who are happily in one place to move is a bad move and will be rejected seems obvious, yet most approaches eventually come down to that. Why do I need to prove myself by taking a risk on a sure loss?

The captain said you have promise but lack big on commitment, show more commitment in the practice sessions and we'll talk, until then stay where you are.
The captain wants the same effort you would put in for the real thing in the practice sessions also.

Disguise yourself, demonstrate your talents and smile and chat positively.

Pep (Sounds like a Disney remake of Shakespeare as well as an alt creation strategy)

The captain didn't tell you to quit playing the game and stand in the stands.

YOU chose to quit playing the game and go stand in the stands.

YOU are the only person who can solve this problem.

Linden Labs can't solve it.

I can't solve it.

"The captain" can't solve it.



Shenanigans.

You can't achieve your first goal, so the only option is to do nothing and complain that you can't achieve your first goal?

Nonsense.

DO SOMETHING ELSE.

You're not going to be a... whatever it is that you want to be (we don't know what it is, you won't tell us, you just throw analogies around). I'm never going to be a rock star, porn star, or astronaut. I'm not going to make a living as a marine biologist, or performance artist, or architect. That's life. First life. Second life. You can't always get what you want.

You're not even trying to get what you want.

You're PRETENDING to try, maybe you've fooled yourself that bitching on the forums is trying, even. Well, it's not. If you ever want to get somewhere you're happy with, YOU have to get off your virtual duff and do it. But that's not going to be whatever it was you want to do right now... whatever that is, I have no idea... so find something else.

If you're so fixated on this specific thing, you can't even consider doing something else... I don't know, that doesn't sound healthy to me.

I'm in the UK and all the classes I attended except one were accessible by staying up no later than 1am (which I do anyway). I may not have attended every class, but I was certainly able to attend one on every topic. I attended one class between 2am-3am, and again I was up anyway, for various other reasons.



Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.

I have to say I don't understand your argument here, or how what you're saying is different from what I said.



My experience of roleplaying on SL is that aside from one or two particularly popular places, most of them are abandoned. Personally I don't think that the majority of SL players are interested in roleplay at all, and the market is probably already past saturation. Yes you're probably right that most future roleplay will be constrained by what already exists, so if you're really desperate to roleplay, why not go and join them?



I think what you're asking for is an extreme that doesn't exist in SL except in very tiny pockets. I think there are very very few places in SL where people DON'T talk about RL at all, except in those specific roleplay areas.

She did, indirectly. As we'll see in a moment.



Argent, you come across as a very intelligent person here, so I can only think that there's been some kind of weird misunderstanding. So, let's try to explain things again. This is going to sound very cold and clinical, but hopefully clear too..

1) It seems that asking people who are happily doing something else, to change, will be an antisocal move and be rejected.

2) I have not tried to do what I want, because of (1).

3) (1) makes no mention of what the other people are being asked to change to. Thus, it applies to all possible things. (You know what a "free variable" is, I'm sure!)

4) (1) also makes no mention of skills or talents or identity. Thus, it would apply to all possible people.

This is how I know there has been a misunderstanding, when you tell me to "do somehing else". Per (3), this would make no difference to the situation. You have also acknowledged that (4) is wrong. yet if this is true, (1) must also be wrong or at least lack detail, yet you've never tried to tackle or alter these.

This is why I tend to feel these conversations are like this:
STUDENT: I can't get loops to work.
PROGRAMMING TEACHER: Well, write a program that doesn't use loops.
S: Um, I think a lot of useful programs use loops.
T: Sure, but you don't have a right to be able to write them.
S: But other people can get them to work, and you've helped them..
T: Well, don't compare yourself to others! Be proud to be your own person.
S: But.. it's not fair that I can't use loops and you treat me this way..
T: Life isn't fair, and if you want to use loops, just use them.
S: But I can't get them to work, and you won't help me..
T: For heaven's sake, stop whining! Of course nobody will help you like that.
S: But what am I supposed to do?
T: Give up your course and study something else!

Does the teacher in that situation have faith or confidence in the student's ability to learn programming? Given that the typical "normal" conversation which other students seem to be having is:

S: I can't get loops to work.
T: (looking) You're using assignment instead of equality in the loop condition.

Wouldn't the first student be justified in wondering why the teacher didn't do that for them, too?

This is not a luxury I have on working nights.



What you were saying was that SL appeals to a limited number of people, but that (say) SL could stabilse with the 20,000 people for whom SL is perfect.

What I said was that SL's appeal is self-limiting to a limited number of SLers, so that SL can't stabilise with that perfect 20,000 - because either some of them will have no audience, or some of them will be unwillingly forced to become audience.

You said, "only 20% of people will like SL." I said, "only 20% of SL will like SL."



Because I don't like them all that much. And if it is constrained by what already is, that's a world design flaw. Also, seeing below, the idea that this was about "roleplay" is an assumption that others have made on the thread.



I'm not talking about "never talking about RL". I'm talking about situations in which the virtual environment, the avatars and the area, actually make a difference to how people behave socially. I mean, really, if there are none or very few of those, then what are we doing this for? Why are we spending time, money and effort creating a graphical virtual world when ultimately it depends on social interaction and we make no difference to that?

You cannot equate personal problems with a logic problem. Logic problems have exactly one answer. Personal problems are not that simple - you are comparing apples and oranges and so your analogy fails.
You think there is a simple answer to your problems, there isn't, there is only a path to tread with whatever problems and solutions that brings. You simply don't want to walk that path.

I don't agree. What is stopping me in this case is my logic. Since at the moment it seems entirely sound, changing it doesn't make sense. If you believe that it is wrong, argue it. You should be able to win the argument, since presumably your own beliefs fit logically in your own head, and logic is the same for all of us.

Of course you don't agree, you are not ready to see the truth of the situation yet.
Your argument is not based on logic, it is based upon limited observations that have lead to faulty conclusions.

Then tell me why the observations are unrepresentative, or provide better ones.

Postponing reasoning indefinately to gather more and more observations is an infinite loop that leads nowhere.

Go back and re-read every place where you make an assumption about creativity in SL and you will see a rebuttal from me. If even just I fit my own template then your assumptions are wrong and I know for a fact I am not alone as others have said the same things in these threads.

You are doing it all wrong, you are observing too much, you should be learning and practising the craft you want to achieve proficiency in or living the lifestyle that you want (re: argent's ferret example). This endless cycle of observations and then forming conclusions is part of the problem.
Do you think people who you consider a success follow your strategy of observation and conclusions? I feel confident in saying for the vast majority, definitely not.

1. You're not a computer program (well, according to the strong church-turing hypothesis you are, but you're too complex a program to analyze through formal logic).
2. Your problem is not a programming problem, the teacher may not know the answer.
3. Even if the analogy was valid, you're still not letting the teacher see your program, so they can't give you an answer even if they knew it.
4. You're still denying that the solution may be "write a different program".

This is technically known as "displacement activity". Look it up.

Postponing action indefinitely is an infinite loop that leads nowhere. Thought experiments and mind games aren't actions, they're displacement activity.

This is technically known as "displacement activity". Look it up.

I do it because every minute I spend in SL, I enjoy. Whether I'm alone or with friends, I'm having fun. I enjoy it.

If you don't enjoy it then maybe you should just log off and go and do something that doesn't make you so miserable.

Yes, but you are not contradicting me, because you are only talking about your own observations of things that happened to you. This does not in any way affect the validity of my observations about things that happen to me. If you want to suggest that your observations are generic, they could be relevant, but you would need to do that.



I do not think they write it out in this much detail, but in their own heads they do. If they thought it was a stupid idea, they wouldn't do it.

"The teacher" is an analogy for a conglomerate of the community on SL; I suspect someone knows the answer to fairly simple building difficulties. I had a horrible time making a house at one point, until someone actually looked at it and told me, "the bottom floor is too tall". I would never have thought of that, but it turns out they were exactly right.



They've never asked to see it, and besides, if they actually look at the screen it's right there.



That is indeed a possible solution. But it's a fairly long way down the list, and the fact that you jump directly to it when you haven't looked for obvious errors in what's on the screen tells me that, for some reason, you want to block me.



Nope. Everyone thinks things through before they do them. I've just had to discuss this is agonising detail because people are desperate to writhe and thrash and misunderstand anything they can to avoid having to actually look at the screen.

Nope, you talk about your observations as absolute facts and use them as indisputable causes to the problems you are encountering.
My observations about myself and other show that your facts and causes cannot be absolute and indisputable and so are merely observation you are drawing faulty conclusions from.

No they don't, as a person on the side of the fence you claim not to be on (ie. validated) then I say not. How can you dispute me when you are claim not to be on this side of the fence (ie. validated). How would you know? Ansswer is, you would not and so you guess and wrongly at that.

Facts are my definition indisputable. And I will make my point again, since you didn't seem to respond to it. If I say "such-and-such) happened to me, Yumi" and you reply "such-and-such) happened to me, Gabriele" then you have not disagreed with or opposed me, the points are nothing to do with each other, unless you can claim that your experience is generalised and mine is not.



No, I say it because if a person does not decide what to do by thinking about it then how do they decide what to do?

People have asked for more details about your role playing problem on many occasions. Just what is it that you're trying to do? Take over Gor?
I've spent months going through the other errors with you, as far as you've let me, and you always come back to the same infinite loop of displacement behavior. I've seen other people do the same. If everyone you deal with is displaying the same reaction, either:

1. There's something wrong with what you're doing.
2. There's something wrong with what everyone else but you is doing.
3. They're all out to get you.

Most people will at least consider that option 1 is the answer.

Quit complaining about it on the forums. Do something about it in SL.

If you make a claim about something you have not experienced and then a person who has experienced it says that for them that is false then they have disproved your claim despite them both being based on what they both said.
I never said they don't think about, only that they don't go to the lengths that you are saying you do.
The fact that you equate what I said with just thinking about it shows that you are way off base.

QFT!

I have not made a claim ABOUT something that I have not experienced. My claim is the FACT that I have indeed not experienced it, from which I can draw conclusions (why not, what's wrong with me?)



These are not long lengths of thinking, only of explaining.

Except first you claimed to have had no validation through your scripting which turned out to be untrue later on when you changed that to it not being the type of validation you wanted. You cannot have this both ways Yumi.

Well then you are explaining it wrongly. You made it sound like you are endlessly observing situations and using that to draw conclusions from.
This is how my thought processes go when I am about to make something:

1) I have a need for something, an idea I would like to explore or an urge to just create something and see what comes out of it.
2) Start making it.

There is no room in my thoughts for whether other people will find it useful, whether it will sell or if I will get some others to validate for me. I just do it.
Sometimes it turns out wrong, it plain just does not work or it is not how I imagined it would look. Do I consider that a waste of time? No, I consider it time well spent practicing, honing and using my talents.

Nope. I don't post it because it's a fairly fun, whimsical thing and would be really daft and embarrassing in a hostile and argumentative situation



This is because you have told me I was wrong, but not what to do about it.



And I did consider it, until no-one here or inworld could tell me what the something was.