Furry ban in Cologne cathedral

Well with all the hoopla its entirely possible the sim may never be reopened and no one can ever see it. Since that I think the masquerade argument was used as a defense about furry avatars and saying we are all masquerading its entirely possible that they convinced all the right people that everyone in sl is masquerading and its a disrepect to the church and that the build be torn down and the sims sold. This is just a wild guess but looking at some of the logic in this thread and looking at what possibly could happen this seems very possible in my eyes. /shrug

I honestly don't care either way whether they stay or go but from a distance (just over the sim line) it looked like a cool build and I wished I could see it at least once... oh well I guess I'll have to spend all my time hanging out at the ANWR Rig (one of the linden builds).

Me too i wanted to see it but everytime i tried to port this weekend I could not as it was full of protesters and now it appears to be closed.

Hmmm....I go sleep, go to work and this thread is still going?

After the matter has been resolved by those involved?

Wilhelm, I think maybe you should open up your own thread (or even blog). I'm not being "cute" or "flaming" with saying that, just you seem to have a lot of opinions, but is derailing from the overall view here.

1) The OP started a thread to cain public awareness for a dispute and discussion of the policies of the sim in question. With concent of the sim-owner. No, don't take my word on that, ask him yourself. If you won't ask him, for whatever reason, then you have no way to refute that.

2) You keep stating that nothing else was tried prior to the discussion/protest. How do you know that? Unless you were there from the start, you can't. I certainly don't know, but I do not dismiss the possibility out of hand. It's also possible you are correct. Until one discovers teh facts on this, however, any discussion on that fact is moot.

3) You continually restate what you would have done. Quite frankly, that doesn't matter. What matters is what the sim-owner DID do.

4) You continualy call for respecting the sim-owner, but apparently do not want to respect him for how he handled this situation. Why?

5) The dictate from the begining was misunderstood. I agree there. Both on the side of those beleiveing they were discrimated agasint, and those psoting the rules due to lack of understanding of the social network of SL. That was what the discussion helped for each side to understand the other (If I have understood that portion. I wasn't at the discussion, so am "guessing" at what went on there, same as you).

So, since all sides are done and done with this, why would you continue to "drum the march to war"?

If you have other issues, wouldn't a different thread be more logical for discussion?

~Jessy

Does anyone have contact with the land owners/builder to see what's going on?

If they have "suddenly realised" that everyone in SL is a bunch of pixels and not real people ... then either they completely missed what Second Life is, or the development company did a really bad job of explaining it.

I would guess it's more a case of "how do we get round this one".

And let me refer you back to my post - which evidently you skimmed briefly in order to pad your post count with relies haphazzardly shot off from the hip. I am not a furry. Don't play one, but am friends with quite a few, and my annoyance with this situation is that someone out there is attempting to apply their RL view on a world populated with mythical creatures...a world where we all have extraordinary abilities which would probably have us all burned at the stake in front of said cathedral in RL for using witchcraft.

It is arrogant, and quite frankly dangerous, for these people to place a religious theology in SL assuming that the Christian God wouldn't want furries, or anything other than homo sapiens, paying their respects in his house. I'm still not seeing a refute to this point...but am keeping my ears open. Feel free to enlighten me.

But, like I said - which you did quote correctly and in context - their land, their rules. I just find it disgusting that they're dragging a religion which embraces love, compassion and inclusion through the mud with them, and won't be visiting this area, nor the region condoning this misplaced bigotry.

I dont think telling a bunch of people to leave someone alone cause they are gonna get his sim crashed with this is derailing sorry its totally on topic

I also have a blog thanks and a bunch of other stuff anyhow i find you dont actualy get what i'm saying and feel that the way to get things done is by being the squeeky wheel and polarizing a community on an issue before there actualy is one is a good way to go but that's fine

If someone asking people in a thread to not get so worked up because your griefing the guy and he's not actually bothering you is off topic so be it. Its part and parcel of the problem. When someone says come protest here and here is a link to the place your asking for trouble and inviting it. Having been around for awhile I have watched enough of this stuff turn ugly and was trying to get a group that looks like they dont get it to get it (my mistake next time they can attract the mobs of hoodlums and I will say nothng and the sim can be crashed)

Anyhow such is life carry on

lets open the door to some other guys sim build and invite trouble for him becaus surely he deserves it because he wont let people wearing blue shirts in shall we?

But what could you possibly confuse "furry avatars" with???? I can't think of anything they couldn't understand even if they looked up "furry" in a dictionary.

Human avatars with excessive facial/body hair perhaps?

I reread this thread.

Im having trouble finding the spot where people stirred up hate, Im having trouble finding calls to grief the sim. Besides the terms Bigot and discrinmatory - I dont even see any really inflamatory language being used that is directed at the Church, exactly.

I dont see calls for people to join in the protest, precisely.

The OP complained about the situation, which is within her rights.

The OP mentioned there was a protest going on which there was.

They had a dialog with some of those involved on the other side - evidently they were happy with how it went - that is mentioned.


Other people have expressed their opinions on banning furries in this situation and whether it makes sense.

Some people have since early in the begining decided this thread was destructive, and have continued on in that vein.


All in all - its a fairly mild thread as Resident Answers "Flame fests" go.

Its unfortunate there was griefing. I dont really see how this thread CUASED it.

Do not assume anything about me. I am not making it personal - don't drag this discussion down that way.

The dress code itself has nothing to do with religion. I hate repeating myself but I will: The problem is that they are not seeing SL as SL - they wanted a mirror of RL. This is where the disconnect is. And you and others are branding them as being biased when it's not true. The break between RL and SL is the cause here, but many all too happy to assign an evil intent. In SL the avatar is not necessarily a costume and is very much a representation of the personality. I get this. THEY may not. But that doesn't make them biased.

and lets get something straight:
The builders were the one that Monalisa encountered. There has been no response to the issue thus far, but there is sympathy for the issue, as there should be. It is merely another set of people unfamiliar with SL trying to impose RL conditions, when it's misapplied. All the talk about "discrimination" "skinheads" and the like are as yet UNFOUNDED, but because it's a church, it has been open season on imputing evil intent. And you have not done any better.

yeah i'm stupid and blind and dont get it. Actualy no i'm not but anyhow.

other then that I can't make a blind man see so i will just watch people pat themselves on the back and pretend like they did the right thing ^^

What I think the continuation of this thread is doing, is throwing more fuel on the fire and causing even more angst, with the possible result of people greifing this poor guy.

Point of fact, they ARE leaving him alone. Most are just arguing with you, not him. *shrugs*



The protest/discussion was handled in an adult manner. The griefing came from others who have IQs smaller than their shoe sizes. What side, or who they were is unkown, and unlikely we will ever know due to LL's non-disclosure policy.

I have already offered my help if needed. It is actually quite easy to make a sim crash-proof and render griefers ineffectual. Aside from the incident during the discussion (where scripts ahd to be enabled for visitors to use the translators) I have not heard of any griefing on the sim.

It sounds to me like the sim-owner is quite capable of handling such things.

Though I do indeed agree. Anyone who would stoop to the grieifng level is gutter trash.



You're missing the whole point. Saying a person needs to be human to go to this sim is not a problem. Saying only furries (or those with masks) can't is silly, bordering on discrinminatory when taken within the SL Society.

If the sign had read "Please maintain a human only appearance in keeping with the theme and solomnity of this establishment." I highly doubt anyone at all could have complained. They would have been laughed off the forum if they had.

Saying no blacks, gay, furries, green martians, robots, dogs, cats, birds, rocks, etc, etc IS discrimintation. Allowed, yes, but if in a public view, one must concider the reaction of the public or deal with the fallout.

Apprently, and thankfully, this WAS dealt with, and in a calm manner.

My point is it's over. Why isn't it for you?

~Jessy

Give it a rest - between this and the insulting references in your other post to me, I have lost my patience with you.

I dare you to find 1 single post that tells people to perform a Grid Attack in the sim the cathedral is in.

I couldnt even find one that HINTED at it.

I think since I can't drag people to go look up the forum guidelins and this forum is turning into a personal battle ground for a few groups right now i'm going to copy raymonds post and stick it here

"Forum Guidelines

hrm i did i found several in a space of two minutes maybe they got removed as well.

you give it a rest you seem to want to reply to everything and so does everyone else. Trying to change my viewpoint tough luck wont be changing anytime soon.

Here i will repost for your broken page back finger and eyes!

I got tired of cutting and pasting examples for you after post #74

I'm sure your going to close your eyes on this but in an attempt to talk reason to someone who says they were not crying racism here are a few examples of it and a bit of name calling for good measure

Huh? So you are saying they were all deleted?

Or you saying you found them just now within the space of 2 minutes?

How did none of them get quoted by other posters.

IM not trying to change you veiwpoint. IM extremely annoyed at you that you publicilly questioned the type of person I am , becuase of my opinion on a thread where you cant even find the references Im supposed to become offended by !!!!!!!!!!!!!



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Note of the quotes you added later Mention organizing a protest, using said protest in a harrassing manner, NOR griefing the SIM

K, so, I haven't read this whole train wreck. Sorry. I cite RL and time. However...

I have been to the cathedral in question in real life, quite a few times, and never once did I see someone in a fursuit there. ZOMG discrimination? Or, just people being respectful?

Sounds like the people who created this in SL wish to have visitors show the same sort of respect as visitors in the real world show to the cathedral. That's why they don't want you going in wearing stripper gear with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth while your wings of Mael beat ominously behind you. You know, modicum of respect.

I sure as hell won't go there in my vamp character and pretend to be undone by the sight of the cross and the proximity of holy water. That'd just be rude.

I probably will go, though, and play by their rules, because I respect this building in real life, and I respect the people who took time to make it in real life.

hrug:

What's the big deal here?

I don't particularly appreciate some sim banning Furries for no apparent reason, but it's their sim, and they can set the rules.

As an SL architect, I would have been interested in examining their work. But since their sim is off-limits to my primary forms, I probably won't bother to ever go there. If I did, I would respect their wishes and go in one of my Human forms, much as I do when business requires me to visit a Gorean sim, or somewhere else that Furries are less than welcome in.

eh sorry i'm annoyed at this whole entire thread so we are in the same boat here. Perhaps I will go find the houses off all the people who say its okay to protest and post threads like this and protest their protesting and start news articles and gossip about them and see how they enjoy having their sl time wrecked.


oo and look now comes the spinnoff threads!

/327/df/208491/1.html

Oh yeah, one more thing:

What's with the hate against us vampires? =(

You know we can't go to sims that have the sun up, yet you leave the sun up. What kind of fascist bull is that? Why you hatin on us? Why don't you set your sims to permanent midnight so *everyone* can go? I think it's bigotry and vampersecution at its worst *sniffle*

H8rs.

Vampires are a pain in the neck.

Ceera, it's not like that. It's a misapplication of RL principles and expectations. Treat it like Gor.

World>Force Sun>Midnight

Ok the builders of this particular Cathedral have made their wishes clear & it is right to respect that. But otherwise, why not? If your AV was a full-time Vampire, why not continue the role in a church build? It is not a church. And it is not a Cathedral. If the basic rule of SL is "do not behave in ways which you would not behave in in real life", why bother logging-in?

Any respect for the skills involved is due to those who built it in SL. Go to the RL original & wonder at the skills of those who built it. If you do, you'll discover that visiting the two are totally different experiences. And guess which is the more impressive when you're there.