Furry ban in Cologne cathedral

http://dreamland.anshechung.com/index.php?fct=DREAMLAND_FURRIES

http://dreamland.anshechung.com/index.php?fct=DREAMLAND_JAPAN

http://dreamland.anshechung.com/index.php?fct=DREAMLAND_JAPAN

http://dreamland.anshechung.com/index.php?fct=DREAMLAND_PRIDE

http://dreamland.anshechung.com/index.php?fct=DREAMLAND_NEDERLAND


they do not accept visitors that do not fit the requirments they have a theme and your expected to respect it 100% or be banned and believe me they do ban those who dont resepect the theme of the sim. These communities are actualy older and have existed for quite some time (the japan one is new and I went to the grand opening and I put on a japanese avatar for it also the netherlands one is fairly new and I didn't go to that one because i can't speak the language. The german one is quite old and the gay pride one is about 8 months old. )

go read the info on the sims if you like but please respect the wishes of the owners and dress appropriately if you visit. Of course on the geman one and japanese ones since everything is in a language you can't understand you wont get very far but the fact of the matter is that these are non issues. There is nothing in sl that say YOU MUST speak english anymore then there is anything in sl that says furry avatars must be admitted to a build that doesn't want them there. Its all about settings and creating a mood. Why is this so horrible?

Also i think your telling me that I dont agree with his no furry dresscode this is wrong im wondering why people are giving this guy sucha problem over his request that they not dress in that manner because it does not fit the build

The problem is that they are not seeing SL as SL - they wanted a mirror of RL. This is where the disconnect is. And you and others are branding them as being biased when it's not true. The break between RL and SL is the cause here, but you and others are all too happy to assign an evil intent. In SL the avatar is not necessarily a costume and is very much a representation of the personality. I get this. THEY may not. But that doesn't make them biased.

So you agree that the owner of this region has the right to ban furries. Thank you.

A "gay only" sim is exactly the same as "no straight people" - yet why is one acceptable and the other not?

You misunderstand my stake here, I think. I don't give a damn, I just like to quarrel.

That said, I'm still going to go with my initial feeling - exclude all, or exclude none. Don't exclude only one. At least, don't do that an expect not to catch flack for it, because that would be stupidly optimistic.

I've always liked that about you

they are simply trying to build their own little slice of sl where they feel comfortable and this is not a sin anymore then building a website for gays or japanese people is. There is this misconception in sl that somehow everyone should be able to go anywhere. If someone says "dont come here unless your from class X" then I would do that and respect their wishes. There is nothing wrong with it and you dont have to like it and neither do I, but the fact of the matter is its not harming or bothering you and you didn't even know they existed until i pointed them out.. so obviously it was not affecting you in the least.

Now you've confused me.

You're totally agreeing with me that it's fine for people to restrict who can and can't visit their region ... yet in the same breath complaining that furries are banned from entering the cathedral?

Glad to know you're the arbiter of what's "needed". If having a differing opinion is all that's needed to "grief" then the grid must be one miserable place.

"If you don't value free expression, then shut up."

I posted an invitation to an open debate with the owner. Half of it was held in English to make the non German speakers comfortable. The builders speak excellent English. Besides that I insisted in scripts being turned on and handed babblers out to everyone on request, so the German conversation can be followed.

The church builder is now in really bad position. He wants to open the church for all but he is still uncertain about the reactions of the church administration itself which did not respond to the cause so far.

We reached a compromise though: There will be an additional sign that says "until the church itself decides over the policy in their virtual building, RL rules will apply which means only human avatars". Most furries were OK with it.

Someone tried to grief the debate meeting but it was handled with reason - we just ignored them.

I'll bet anything that, so long as no one is singled out, the human-av-only restrition will be broadly (though never wholly, humans being what they are) accepted.

I agree with you. SL has several technical solutions for scenarios like that. When I visited the Chebi mosque, I noticed that a part of the prayer room had doors that were set to group only. These rooms were accessible only by group members. If you want your property to be accessible only by some avatars make a group and put a banline, or block them by doors. There is nothing wrong with that. Selecting avatars by their body make up and ejecting them based on their body shape is an entirely different story. They should have known better.

There may very well be a fury sim out there that only allows furries. But I haven't seen it yet. Luskwood one of the most popular furry hangouts does not force you to be a furry. Now when I do go to Luskwood or another furry hangout (which isn't often) I will wear my furry foxy avatar. But I have been around enough furries to know the majority of them have no issues partying/socializing with me when I am human and they are furry.



I just came back from this sim and I have two observations:

1) It is a nice build. But nothing that special. It felt kind of cold in there, but I am not catholic, well I'm not even religious. But not really my cup of tea. I found the Venice sim in Venezia (92, 158, 54) and even the Dresden Gallery (123, 127, 26) to be way cooler places to visit. I will likely go back to this sim on another day. But I have way more sims I value and prefer to check out first.

2) The protestors (due to their large numbers) are making it hard for everyone else to enjoy the sim (don't get me wrong they did not harass me or anything like that). Now I do not speak German, so I tried to fire up my Babbler. But my Babbler didn't work due to all of these protestors. Of course I have similar Babbler issues on any busy sim.

Finally ...

While I support my furry friends (I think they are adorable) but sim owners should be allowed to set rules and we visitors to these sims do need to respect those rules. If you do not like them, there is a million other places in SL to explore. Oh and I showed up there in a tank top and shorts and was allowed to walk around the inside of the cathedral and I did observe a woman in there wearing what appeared to be a rat's tail and ears. Now was the sim owner(s) not around to evict her? or were they tolerating her? I do not know. She was behaving herself talking to two other avatars and as long as we behave ourselves, should it matter that much what we look like?

no not one post has me arguing that i am upset about furries being banned from the cathedral i'm not a furry i'm a human avatar you have not read my posts this was opposite. I'm giving examples of where the reverse is true in an effort to show furries that they do the same with humans avatars and the examples are being 100% ignored and going over like a 747. I have also stated that i will have less respect next time when i am asked to change to a furry avatar to take my dragon making class or visit the sims which DO exist that demand that i put on a furry avatar and come to this forum and post a thread to stir up a protest to the opposite that I be allowed to go in as a human avatar.

Those places do exist although I find it funny that furries say they dont because I have been to them and respected their wishes. I in fact thing that furries should not be in the cathedral as they dont fit the rp setting and have stated that if i was this owner i would be banning and ejecting them and not even talking to them so i give him a gold star for putting up with the lag they are causing and thereby making it near to impossible for others who actualy just want to go there and look to enter and for even negotiating with them he is a lot more patient then I would be with them. They would have been banned and muted by me now as a griefer group intent on filling my sim to the point where no one can visit the build for the purpose it was intended for.

Thankfully any friends that i have that are furry are not a part of this. The furry community although it had my support in the past is showing me that they are willing to go overboard to have their way yet at the same time have in some sims really stringent rules and expect you to follow them.

So i support them less now as a group then i did before this thread was posted and this guy was inundated with all these people that should not be there.

yesterday they were ejecting inappropriately dressed people I would assume or suspect that these guys are being overwhelmed at this point and with the lag and crowd of people there for the sole purpose of causing a ruckus its hard to maintain the build the way they want it to be.

I tried to port and I could not which means the sim is near full or about to crash

Bottom line I suspect that the result will be that this build will be gone due to this. I could be wrong but I think all they have done is driven an sl user from second life with this and nothing more which is actually pretty sad.

It's how we behave in SL and not what we look like that counts. One of my good SL friends is also a live SL musician and one of her fans regularly shows up as a werewolf while the rest of us are usually dressed up in formal attire. But this wolf man is a great fan, a fun person to be around and my SL musician friend loves her werewolf fan.

It should be about how we act, not how we look.

PS: At this protest I saw earlier, there were more humans than furries outside the cathedral.

It's so sad.............

This really sucks now.

After a griefer attack both sims are down.

Congratulations to everyone who did that. They will think now the furries did it.

What would Jesus do?

that's probably that np or pn whatever group that I can't remember the name of taking advantage of the situation although I could be wrong

they see lots of dots and they go to the dots and crash the sim.

Hopefully the owner will just leave them offline till this is settled that would seem to be the smart thing to do at this point.

I'm wondering the same thing...



Agreed! As a furry avatar, I am respectful of the wishes of the owners of the land that I put my paws on. If they don't want me wandering around as a fox because they'd prefer to keep their theme realistic, that's fine by me and I'll simply use a human avatar. However, if they are simply banning furries for being furry I have a problem with it, simply because I don't understand: I treat EVERYONE the same and as I would like to be treated. What makes a furry avatar so different from others? (Other than the obvious fact that we're in fur or scales.)

I have seen one troll in my entire time in sl Furries are just a large population and most visible peple have to try not to read more into this then they should. (oh wait i saw an elf once but they had to tell me they were an elf because they looked very human and I saw a vampire once and the only reason i knew they were one was because of the text attachement over their head hehe.

I do not believe they are targetting furries its simply the most visible and well defined group in SL. I didn't even know about vampires etc when I was new but I sure as heck knew about furries even LL gives them a clear defination and has a premade furry avatar so its put in your head the moment you enter.

they also dont allow wings and various head attachments so any ears or teeth etc that are attached would have to come off of say a vampire and then they would be human.

It says "head coverings", i.e. hats and such, it DOESN'T say head attachments!

@Monalisa: Chebi Mosque has parts that are set to group because it's working space for people-these are things like a library/office kind of thing, for example-but there are also public library and office spaces on the same sim, so the parts that are off limits are not part of the mosque itself. They're not secret spaces for worshippers or anything, it's more like admin spaces. The mosque itself is open to everyone.

actualy i have a photo of the sign and nowhere does it even mention furries but a news article puts in brackets "ie furries" so my conclusion is that thisi s being taken out o context and that furries are assuming it means them lol



after reading this article and looking at the sign i can say one thing that people are blowing this way out of proportion and this has absolutely nothing to do with anything more then them wanting a certain atmosphere

so in reading this sign it also means no mechs, robots vampires angels, elves trolls or anything else you can think of its pretty clear what they are after and another example of well going overboard ..

and it says "headpieces" same thing as head attachemnts and this is just mincing words.

its like when people hated when gambling was banned they tried to find ways around it by skirting the limits and rationalizing stuff kinda funny really

so the moral of the story is just like be sensible and go put on an appropriate avatar if you want to visit and dont start making such a fuss over what amounts to nothing!

But that is NOT what the German sign on page 1 says...that one EXPLICITLY states furries, and also talks of headcoverings, NOT headpieces....a case of bad translation?

edit: THIS sign: (I hope that's okay to copy it, Monalisa?)

My view on this is very simple.
In Second Life I am a bat.
I am not wearing a mask or a hat or even a disguise.
If you don’t like the fact that I am a well dressed bat who is wandering around your build then that is fine, there are plenty of other great builds in the world for me to spend my money in and tip generously.

BTW Everyone remains welcome at the Falcon Tower, even if you are human. ^_^

This is what happens when people overreact.