Lindens define ageplay!

someone has sex on the brain...

but then everyone is doing the hysterical thing so go for it lol its actually pretty funny to watch as everyone ties themselves up in a knot over what might or might not exist..

this is probably true - but I dont think LL wants to be known for that.

On noes! Lock up all the people out there enjoying themselves as they bang away in the hopes of creating children!

I despise the: "If it saves one child, then it will be enough" argument.

There is a *huge* difference between "Zero Tolerance" and "Zero Possibility"

"Zero Tolerance" to me, means "Everone that is proven guilty is punished. No exceptions." (I am very much in favor of this.)

"Zero Possibility" to me, means, all the innocent are punished with restrictions and inconveniences... in order to prevent anyone the chance to be guilty.

I am okay with *SOME* preventative restrictions and inconveniences in RL, and SL... if they are reasonable, practical and EFFECTIVE.

The effectiveness of banning "SAP" in SL is clearly a response to bad press, press that that is harmful to SL's ability to recruit new paying members and businesses.

Daft comparison. If there was an equivalent to masturbation that sated a hunger impulse, you might have a point...as it is the comparison is pointless.

And by that am I tacitly accpeting that some people masturbate during sexual age play? Of course I am. I don't have a problem with that (other than it being slightly creepy). But I'd rather they do that than hang out around playgrounds. As someone said - the same people probably masturbate over the Sears catalog underwear section. If you take computer generated simulations of ageplay out of the equation, there are a thousand other sources that still exist to fuel a pedophilic fantasy.

This whole thing got me thinking...if at some point in the future, you could create a robotic sex doll - nothing too sci-fi, I'm not talking artificial intelligence here - just something that would respond to basic commands...if there were child versions of that, would people also want to ban it? In this case you'd have a REAL WORLD equivalent of the ageplay that is in SL...it would still be an adult in control of both "players" (because the adult would control the robot) AND I would think the experience would be almost indistinguishable from the real thing...since the participation of a child in sex MUST be limited (I don't have any experience here, but I'm assuimg that the "respond to basic commands" would cover it).

Such a robot would satisfy pedophiles, remove them from the streets - but still be "offensive to the majority"...would people want to ban it?

/me realises we are now so far off-topic that we can no longer see it. Please ignore this post if you wish.

There is always a danger that what anyone posts here is going to be subject to editing, copying out of context etc.... but as this IS a public forum for debate, I'll make myself as plain as possible...

Anyone messes with my children, their children and their childrens children I'll kill them. Give me a reason to suspect you would do the above, I'll die protecting them.
Try perverting my children and their children and their childrens children and I'll do the same.

Forget any country or state borders, it won't protect you.

Have a great day

Age Play can not be tolerable. no matter in which way! you canot hurting peoples souls for ever with the argument of your freedom to do thinks you like.
ageplay its against every standard in human rights.

i have absolutly no problem with sexual content in SL, but ageplay is far behind every line.
this far no further.

Let's try to be a bit more precise with our language, please.

It's not punishment for a business to decide to no longer offer a particular service, or to restrict the use of the services they provide. It may be annoying and unfortunate. It may be a symptom of caving in to a vocal minority or of unfounded fear of legal prosecution. It may be fair or unfair, right or wrong, moral or immoral, legal or illegal.

But it's not punishment of anyone, and this sort of exaggeration isn't helpful. Try something like "restricting an entire gaming population ...."

(While I more often request facts and precision from people arguing on the other side from you, I do try to be an equal opportunity pedant.)

Contrary to the way others who disagree with you responded, I think this is the best written note on that side of the fence, perhaps the only one that has any really merit. By acknowledging the limits of our information, you make it clear that you're avoiding assumptions, and focusing on points that make sense without requiring massive amounts of additional research.

The point about normalizing the behavior is the one that troubles me. Even if we accept for the moment that all the people who today are engaging in SL xageplay, Gor, rapeplay, etc. are really nice people in RL, more and more people will be attracted to SL, and some of them may be close to the edge of doing some unacceptable RL action. Seeing stuff going on in SL will push some of them over the edge, because most people do not get their ethics from rigorous study; they get it from watching other people. When they also can't separate fantasy from reality, they get it from movies, video games, and SL. It's unlikely to be many, but that's one of the things that makes decisions difficult.

I don't yet think that violent video games, horror movies, or SL violence should be banned, but I worry enough about it to wish there were a way to monitor it without violating privacy. I do think it appropriate to keep a close eye on things, as well as to make fine distinctions without lumping everyone into the same boat. (Two SL adult members making out with high school age avatars is not the same as creepy adult av trying to seduce a random kit av.)

Congradulations on poorly defending the indefensible, ageplayers. You've shown a poorer grasp of reasoning than even the "extremist witch-hunting fundamenalist neocons" you believe are the cause of the negative reaction. I've seen slippery slopes, false analogy, and semantics twisting.

The fact is that sexual ageplayers ARE PEDOPHILES.

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/pedophilia?utm_term=pedophilia&utm_medium=mw&utm_campaign=article

"Pedophilia is a paraphilia that involves an abnormal interest in children. A paraphilia is a disorder that is characterized by recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving: nonhuman objects; the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner (not merely simulated); or animals, children, or other nonconsenting persons. Pedophilia is also a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or actual act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. It may be directed toward children of the same sex or children of the other sex. Some pedophiles are attracted to both boys and girls. Some are attracted only to children, while others are attracted to adults as well as to children."

MORE needs to be done, not less. Pedophilic simulations need to be banned from SL in entirety

That's really a hell of an assumption to make. Are you sure they all (the ones who do sexual ageplay) turned on by children? It's not that they could possibly be turned on by an adult regressing themselves to a more helpless state, could it? No, you have managed to read their thoughts. Amazing.

More rhetoric. It doesn't matter. I suppose a pedophile could do that with real child pornography, fantacizing about being the child. It doesn't make them any less of a pedophile. "The focus of pedophilia is sexual activity with a child" from the article, didn't you read it? In fact, playing the role of the child fits the psychological profile of a pedophile quite well.

All of the pedophiles who are making a fuss are shooting themselves in the foot. By being more vocal and outspoken about the banning of advertizing and promoting ageplay, and showing that they wish to use semantics such as labeling groups "flat-chested midget admirers" to form loopholes, they will make it very easy for LL to ban the entirety of ageplay. I hope the pedophiles will continue to push against the gray area of TOS and CS violations so that a final push back may ban this filth from SL.

nothing like the SL is down day posters for getting a thread locked

I hope this thread is locked, along with all other threads made by pedophiles to try to promote ageplay by complaining against the rules.

oops wrong thread lol =p

Im not sure what the intent was then.

Isn't say, a 50 year old, roleplaying a 19 year old ... ageplaying?
From what I've seen, Ageplay is a very generalised term. Some here are nailing it directly to the far more precise pedophilia. That is opinion and conjecture, not necessarily fact.

I thought the notecard originating this witch hunt specified ageplay, not pedophilia.

I am giving up on this thread.

People (including me) have now several times explained what age play really is, but that is completely ignored by others who make themselves angry about child abuse and child pornography, which are entirely different things.

Either way, Linden Labs only banned the advertising, promoting and public displays of it.

They are intelligent enough to realize how impossible it would be to enforce a blanket ban on it, removing it entirely from the grid. Note, I said impossible because it is now. They do not have the manpower to handle a grid wide search for the stuff and even for this small ban, they are relying more on the users to help them enforce it.

Even if they were silly enough to try it and managed to ban a few people over it, those people would be right back, thanks to the open registration system. *shrugs* Besides, people will always try to find a way around rules. And the more clever ones would NEVER be caught.

My aren't you judgemental.

I have no tolerance for emotional reactionary extremism when it comes to the drafting and the execution of law... people get burned at the stake without a fair trial, when emotions like yours rule the day.

And, for what it's worth... I don't see how someone who WISHES they were a child, or identifies with being a child in a sexual situation is a pedophile. The person with them, okay fine. Envy may be a sin, but it's not a crime.

I'm for punishing those that promote SAP... from a "it's good for business" point of view. But laws against victimless crimes are bogus.

I really don't like SAP... and I'm just as offended by people inclined to burn books, censor thought, and forbid the exchange of ideas, regardless of what they might be.

And your point is?

You cannot exactly say all age players are pedophiles. There are differences, as even a basic reading of the Wikipedia article on age play will give you (since everyone else here has a google degree in psychology, I figured I would get one).

The law does not prohibit being a pedophile, the law does not make it illegal to have what ever bizzare fetich you want. The law does make it illegal to have sexual contact with a minor. But in SL, in theory, Age play is an activity engaged in by consenting adults. Thus there is no child to protect. Ther eis certainly no violation of any law.

I suppose the implication could me made that all ageplayers are child molesters, but that is exactly like saying all muslims are terrorists.

Ultimately, despite everyone's Google degree in psychology, there is a complete lack of evidence of any ageplay in SL leading to harm to a child. There is no evidence of any crime being committed. Is it possible? Sure. Its also possible that an asteroid will hit the planet and wipe out all life as we know it. Is there a ban on asteroids in SL? Its also possible Muslims could be meeting in SL and plotting terrorist attacks? Do we see a cry to ban all muslims?

You don't like age play fine. I could care less about ageplay, it does not ever enter my RL or my SL expereince. I find it perfectly easy to avoid. I choose not to interact with child avatrs that come into the sex clubs, and they don't interact with me. If I am uncomfortable, there are plenty of other places to go in SL, including entire sims that are limited to PG activity. If you want to particpate in ageplay in SL you must seek it out. In some forms of entertainment, notably bishou, chibi or any kawaii anime, the age play is largley not sexual, and the child like appearance is essential to the genre.

The entire purpose of SL is to let adults explore a fantasy life with other adults, and some adults want to be children. As long as it happens between two consenting adults, there is nothing wrong with it, even if it is not to your liking. The whole point of free speech is to protect speech that is not to the liking of the majority. Yes I know LL is a compnay not a government, but we can still accept that free speech should be a basic tenant of our online culture.

Bilbo, I think ageplaying is an adult using an avatar that looks and acts like a child. I guess you might be given a hard time... being a hobbit. If you were to say it is a person playing an avatar that is not exactly their own age... well then a lot of people would be in trouble.

Your post was a pretty good one for the Free Speech side of the arguement Jake

- However you forgot that Google degree in psychology is trademarked

its properly displayed as

Google Degree in Phychology TM

=)

Yes, I am judgemental against pedophiles. How is this a bad thing? Also explain your use of the term "emotional reactionary extremism" which itself is a loaded term.

Before you shout about freedom of speech, remember that LL is a business. An above poster said that a blanket ban on ageplay is unenforcible, but that doesn't make sense because using such logic the whole CS is unenforcible. If someone runs into sexual ageplay, they would simply report it, and LL would issue a ban. Will this eliminate ageplay in entirety? Of course not. But it will show to investors and the media that LL is very serious about not allowing pedophiles to ageplay in SL, and will prevent locations provided from pedophiles from ruining sims; a friend of mine had to dump land because of a "babyfur playground" that popped up next to her plot.

Under your logic, all muslims are terrorists too. HMMMMMMM


And Colette, II told you that Google Degree in Intellectual Property (TM) would come in handy.

This is a very very gray area legally. From the F.B.I website:

Section 2251(a)(b)(c). Sexual Exploitation of Children

Any person who employs, uses, persuades, induces, entices, or coerces any minor to engage in; or who has a minor assist any other person to engage in; or who transports any minor in interstate or foreign commerce with the intent that such minor engage in, any sexually explicit conduct for the purpose of producing any visual depiction of such conduct. This statute applies when the person knows that such visual depiction will be, or has actually been, transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed.

Any person, who knowingly prints, publishes, or causes to be made, any notice or advertisement seeking or offering to receive, exchange, buy, produce, display, distribute, or reproduce any visual depiction involving the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct. This statute also applies when such person knows that such notice or advertisement will be, or has been, transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means, including by computer.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/federal.htm

The phrase "any visual depiction" is still in limbo as far as the courts are concerned.


Since SL is a private company, they are not punishing anyone by stopping behavior that they(the Lindens) find objectionable. If they do not want your business, then they should not be under any obligation to provide you with services.

hehe now were recylcling google quotes.

I think theres a few sides to this whole mess

*Lindens Side - Business (SAP bad for business)

*Freedom side - "Ban" on SAP bad for 1st ammendment rights

*Morality Side - SAP is really beyond the pale of what should be allowed as "entertainment' in SL.




*Observers Side - Sick to everlasting death of these ageplayer threads.

*Non Sexual Ageplayers Side - Innocents cuaght in the cross -fire.

*Sexual Ageplayers Side - Well they are being told their Kink is worse than everyone else's kink. Being told they are all sick twisted pedophiles who deserve to be castrated. Try to think how that feels



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We have tons of definitions. Those against the ban are right is a lack of evidence. There are protections that can be made without that evidence of course.

At the very least - Remember theres no evidence anyones shown that Online sexual age players are more likely to molest children than anyone else. So its a bad idea to discriminate directly agaisnt them.

Theres a ban on display/public status of Sexual Age Play in all public areas - basically the same as the adult content/nudity ban in PG areas. Thats All.

Dont act Like linden Labs said its okay to orbit every Kid av you see.