Lindens define ageplay!

Not as long as people still confuse pixels with actual children.

From the FBI website:

Any person, who knowingly prints, publishes, or causes to be made, any notice or advertisement seeking or offering to receive, exchange, buy, produce, display, distribute, or reproduce any visual depiction involving the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct. This statute also applies when such person knows that such notice or advertisement will be, or has been, transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means, including by computer.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/federal.htm

"Any visual depiction" seems pretty clear. it does not say unless they are cartoons played by adults.

You left off two words.

"visual depiction involving the use of a minor" is very clear that it MUST include a minor.

Dunno where you are, but the last time the Supreme Court of the US had anything to say about it, simulated (cartoon or computer generated) images of children are not treated the same way as images of actual children.

I dunno where you are, but in every civilised country in the world, having sex with a minor makes you a peadophile... if you have sex with someone pretending to be a minor in SL then in my my book that makes you a virtual peadophile and just as sick as those who do it in RL.

Lets not talk about having different terms of ageplay as some have suggested eg: general ageplay and sexual ageplay, lets call it what it really is .. General ageplay (just playing a child for fun) and Virtual Paedophilia.

Pedophilia is a serious psychiatric condition that needs treatment, not a crime.

RL sexual abuse of RL children is a crime, not a condition. That includes such things as photographing them in sexual poses. Such photos are evidence of crimes having been committed, and possessing them is another act that can itself be prosecuted in the US.

Every civilized country I ever heard of prosecutes crimes, not mental conditions.

It is an important distinction.

the act of pedophilia is considered a criminal offense in this country where i am and in most modern countries it puts people on trial and in jail and has them undergo all kinds of psychiatric evaluation and requires them to live in solitary confinement when in jail to avoid being killed by the other prisoners hence pedophilia although its "condition" like many things is also a crime because of what it results in. ....

"A pedophile is an individual whose primary sexual orientation is for children. Quite literally the word pedophilia means love ("-philia" for children ("pedo-". In the field of psychology, a pedophile is considered to have paraphilia, or a psychosexual disorder. In the field of law, a pedophile is not a criminal unless s/he acts on their desires for children. When a pedophile does act on his or her feelings or desires, they may be committing acts of child sexual abuse or molestation, child exploitation, child pornography, incest, kidnapping, statutory rape, or the prostitution of minors."

its the legal definition or attempt to define it within the law again the act is illegal being one isn't like all things int his world you can be whatever you want its when you do it that there are the sticky bits

so yes committing the act wil land you in jail just like anything else that has a legal definition attached to it including gambling in certain areas of the world...

As Wilhelm says... every civilised country jails paedophiles for have sex with a minor. Are trying to suggest that it isn't really a crime to for someone to have sex with a minor!

Or perhaps what you are saying is that all the virtual paedophiles who are up in arms about LL telling them not to have pretend sex with underage AVs all have a serious psychiatric condition that needs treatment.... well I'll agree with you there, they all need 'treatment' and should be locked up in a padded cell for life.

Did the notion that age play in SL is soethign that happens between consenting adults in a private forum simply elude everyone?

hehe no I think that some people equate one thing with another and dont think that adults are capable of being responsible sometimes though and so i guess this is where this stems from

for me i ignore most of it adults are adults what they do is their business if i dont like I wont go to there or whatever but there are some people who like in the real world want to impose their beliefs on others as far as what they can and cannot do also these threads and discussions are always circular nothing will ever be solved by them and linden labs is not banning people for ageplay only for posting the photos etc in public places. This particular rule has been in existance for porn well for ages they are just redefining it since some people will insist that its their right to display what they want in the classifieds and pg areas even though its not so they are just asking for the graphic stuff to be removed I have seen no evidance that they said you can't do all that "stuff" if you want to

anyhow such is life people are having a debate about what LInden labs didn't do which is kinda funny

err all the AV's on this grid are adults....???!!!!????

Amazing how somebody can read something and think it says the opposite of what it says.

There is no "act" of pedophilia; it is a mental condition. A person who has this condition and never lets himself act on it is sick, but not yet a criminal. He is sick. Not a criminal unless and until he acts on it.

Just once commit a sexual act against a child, though, and a person commits a crime - whether they are a pedophile or not. The guy who takes photos of kids in sexual poses, for instance, could be someone sufficiently immoral to do anything for a buck rather than be a pedophile - and it doesn't matter; he is still a criminal. Deserves what he gets, too.

Let's try it again, and see if it sinks in this time:

Pedophilia = mental condition.

Sexually abusing a RL child = crime.

Repeat it three times, maybe then it will sink in.

And yes, Jake, it does elude some people, because they simply don't want to understand it.

See, some people get so upset about this subject they are not entirely rational about it. Their agitation is understandable, but unfortunately, it clouds discussions like this. I don't mind them venting their rage and frustration, because they evidently need to, and I understand their horror of it. But it is important to clear up confusion in discussions of an important matter like this.

What about in real life? If you have sex with someone pretending to be a minor... let me specify, an adult person pretending to be a minor... would that person, in your book, be a "peadophile"?

Can't we assume that people playing SL are adults and, if we can't, isn't THAT the underlying problem? The "What if they're not an adult?" problem?

I understand the squickiness when it comes to ageplaying and sex. I share in it. Changing diapers isn't something I enjoy doing in RL, let alone get off on. I am not involved in it in any way, shape or form, but I certainly don't presume to tell someone else what to do.

If the ones that are roleplaying adults in these ageplay scenarios are sick, and criminals, and pedophiles and any other term you want to make it, then what are the adults that are roleplaying the minors?

Yeah this statue really needs to be read in conjuction with Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, 535 U.S. 224 (2002), in order to even begin to interpret it.

I know it sounds odd, but the FBI website is not the place I would go looking for legal advice. These are the same people who once confiscated the GURPS Cybernpunk Roleplaying game as a hand book for computer crime.

the "what if they are not an adult problem" is pretty much linden labs issue and i'm pretty sure that most people playing kids aer likely adults

i'm also beyond pretty sure that any minor that does manage to evade radar will not play as a child avatar as their first choice

I'm also pretty sure that any minors on this grid having "sex" with adults are playing adult av's

okay now lets watch how this one gets argued about and I think at this point I am playing devil's advocate but if you are worried about adults having sex with minors perhaps then the solution is to just ban sex altogether "just in case" hehe

i'm sorry but I could not resist this perspective but really if anyone has kids that try to get into the adult stuff have you ever seen your kid actualy wanting to BE a kid when dealing with any games for adults? the answer is no most kids want to emulate ADULTS not kids (they are already kids) so if they enter this grid they will be playing adult avatars not kids avatars..

okay what next then

okay i'm just being obtuse mainly because I have spare time and realy dont care , but people love to pick at me for grammar etc so here goes

pedophilia is the act and yes its a crime in most modern countries

Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children. - this is a crime and considered illegal this is a definition from a psychology book

pedophiles are the sick ones they didn't commit the act they are the ones with the condition ->Pedophiles are usually men, and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the opposite sex varies

I think your not understanding that in some cases it can be both and yes the act of pedophilia which is defined above for you to read is in fact a criminal offense its both not one or the other really so technically your wrong ...

just like gambling and gamblers are considered mostly to be one and the same so is this

anyhow back to the regular scheduled arguments (still can't believe someone said underaged av ? but anyhow such is life)

In some areas of SL, I roleplay a submissive. (Those of you that know me, HUSH! lmao) Does this mean that I am a submissive in real life? No. Does this mean that I am a submissive in all aspects of my SL life? No. All that it means is that in some areas of SL, I roleplay a submissive.

There are others that rp a furry. Are they furries in real life? I'd say the chances are very likely they aren't, unless they are one of those sweater chest guys. (You know the ones.... they look like they're wearing sweaters, even when they are shirtless?) Does this mean they are into bestiality in real life? Again, I'd lay odds that they aren't. It just means that in SL they are rp'ing a furry.

Does anyone remember what role play is? Pretending to be something that you aren't? Taking on a role that is not normally yours? (For example, first man that tries to put a collar on me and make me call him 'master' in real life is gonna get my boot shoved so far up his rear he'll be tasting leather for a year!)

Fantasy, no matter what the fantasy, is up to the person to be had and fulfilled. SL is a safe and healthy way for fantasies to be fulfilled without endangering anyone in real life.

Ageplay isn't my cup of tea. Actually, I rather dislike the idea of it. But then, bondage isn't everyone's cup of tea either and some are disgusted by it as well. This is our *second* life guys, not our first lives. We can't live our first lives as we please for whatever reasons. Don't start putting restrictions on our second lives also. If you do, you just might find your customer base leaving to seek a nonrestricted second life elsewhere.

OMG this is a joke......SUPPOSE to be over 18 right? but really Jake and all due repect during the long time i known you hun........ATLEAST 20% are under 18 years of age atleast! Due to the fact of open Sign ups on the Second Life Game.

Usagi

In all honesty I think if Linden labs is trying to get rid of this issue targetting only the child type avatars wont do a thing mainly because what kid is going to play as a kid when likely they came to this grid to emulate adults not kids. Also there is no way to as the way second life is presently set up to deal with it other then recognize that the problem exists and uh not do any of this stuff because of it. An age verification system needs to be used but since this doesn't exist at the moment the problem exists no matter what they do.

Since Linden labs is giving out free accounts that requires no id then well i hate to say it there is nothing we can do about it either. I think the ageplay thing is going to be 100%ineffective since children aren't going to be running around as child avatars firstly the default avatar is an adult avatar and child avatars are not cheap. So this entire thread and argument about limiting it this way is moot, but the alternative will be for a blanket ban.

I saw someone comment about placing real life age into your profile i'm not sure how much that is gonna help because that can be faked as well..

its all quite silly and nothing being done now is going to remove the problem they are working on or trying to fix.

I can't help but laugh at over protected people worried about fake pixelated children being molested as if they were real... Hell the other day i saw a episode of family guy where peter griffin beat up a 13 year old boy. THAT WAS ON TV. IT WAS A CARTOON! IT WASN'T REAL! Same as on SL. None of these avatars are real. The people playing as them are though. However i doubt that any of them really are young children IRL. So these people need to get off of their high horse and Listen to how ridiculous they sound. We're talking about Pixels being molested like it's the end of the world. Some people need to stop worrying about other people's lives and worry about their own. There is a thin line between being a protective parent who wants the RL laws abided, and dwelling over something that real kids have no part of at all... Why is this even a issue?

Perhaps you would be better applying those questions to those applying pressure to LL
Perhaps SL is now up there on the world target range now.
Perhaps it's like your cars paint has been getting faded for years, why replace it now?

Maybe it was ignore because you didn't have the floor at the time or was drowned out by others who didn't.

It was so funny to hear the whole meeting just burned into nothing useful by people asking dumb questions, asking questions answered before and asking questions out of turn, I doubt many or the questions sent to the designated speakers were asked because of those that couldn't shut up & listen.
It's wonder it didn't become just a religion/gambling/gun debate...................

Yeah ask a question about gambling just don't complain about the resulting uselss debate time..........................
At least Robin didn't have to say much at all, the meetings contents were 90% irelevant to the actual issue.

Like or not SL and other MMO's are going to be treated under similar laws to any website, DVD or movie or game available in any country, SL isn't going to get an exception.

Hmm pixel ageplay sex isn't illegal, true perhaps, so a computer generated pornographic DVD or game protraying infants being raped is therefore just 18 rated anywhere too cause it's only non-consensual ageplay pixels?
You need to redifine it guys to teenplay if you want any chance, you could save it, the numbers you oppose with ageplay/childplay are just to many. People will still see a 8yo girl depicted having sex on Fox whether it's pixels or not.
Are you going to argue with your Government when SL continues to allow ageplay advertising in public areas but SL's IP is banned in your country because of it?

Yes, I would imagine that most 'sexual ageplay' in SL is done between consenting adults... but that is not the point. The point is that you are getting your kicks by pretending to molest young children... in otherwords pretending to be a paedophile... in otherwords you need serious help!

And what happens when your virtual fantasies don't give you the kicks they once did..... move it RL?

Geez... lets get a grip people... there is no way you can seriously argue that wanting to have sex with children is morally acceptable whether in RL or in SL.... It is that simple.