Lindens define ageplay!

Lindens, define what is age play and what you are banning of it.

Hi Raven,


As this is the resident answers forum I do not think asking a Linden questions is appropriate here...although you may get many responses from residents LOL.

To ask a question to Lindens post in the.....er uh nevermind.

Sheesh. I thought they defined it pretty clearly in the notecard, why are so many people asking for clarification or jumping to bizarre conclusions about what it means?

Did you even read the notecard?

No doubt referring to the Notecards Passed about by a Linden to various "Age play" establishments. IF you read the notecard it doesn't Ban the activity it's self, it merely prohibits the Open advertising of the activities in Public places (Or in view of public places) in accordance with the CS.
I read the Full text of the Warning on the "Second Life Herald" News site.

Angel.

No it says ageplay, let someone define ageplay, and as i have 2 sims created for babyfurs, my 2 private islands could be part of this.

My biggest burning question after reading it is what was 010000100111001001100001011011 Omlet's reaction to all this:

Robin Linden: hey everyone, come on to the back - there's more room
Ryozu Kojima: I'll respect your opinion and your ability to tell me said opinion, as long as you do the same for the rest of us.
Raven Welesa: kamael since u are on the linden's side, let us have our say then please
Linda Zhao shouts: ummm that would be me
Ryozu Kojima shouts: Robin is here! Please do not spam, allow us to present our questions one at a time and wait for answers.
Kamael Xevious: I fully intend to, Raven.
HellCat Writer shouts: well here how i look at it ..age play ?? who is it really hurtin?? they r the one that want to do it who they tryin to protect??
Zyriik Vacirca: well also look at the fact that how many babyfurs are also griefers and how is it so hurtful to others when they can just be mature about it and go to another sim, its not like babyfurs have taken of all of SL although some of us might wish that where the case, remember that these are adults infront of the keyboard playin the characters you see
Crasuss Petronius: Where's Robin at?
Raven Welesa: robin i cannot dare attempt to move
Karsten Rutledge is Online
Crasuss Petronius: /hug robin
Raven Welesa: may i ask my questions from here robin?
Kamael Xevious: Hey, Robin.
DamionStJames Webb: There are a pair of seats here where Robin can sit.
Jenie Yoshikawa: wow its nice to meet you Robin
Robin Linden: so how do you all propose we have a conversation?
Robin Linden: good to meet you too Jenie
Jenie Yoshikawa:
Raven Welesa: could u come inside here robin?
Linda Zhao shouts: I only look for them at a (formerly) ageplay brothel
Crasuss Petronius: Hehe, as Non-chaotically as possible
Ryozu Kojima: Raven has a list of questions we would like to ask.
Crasuss Petronius: /hug robin
Jenie Yoshikawa: omg not enough room in there lol
Michael Dumont: Greetings, Robin.
Crasuss Petronius tries it again d_d
Robin Linden: there's room in the back for about 20 to sit in a circle and talk
Jenie Yoshikawa: ok
Robin Linden: I think that would be the best thing to do
Laetizia Coronet shouts: server is full
Ryozu Kojima shouts: PLEASE, Remain quiet while we ask questions and get clarification!
DamionStJames Webb: Secconded
Lisa Yohogania: Greetings and salutations Robin and now i will be quite so the metting can be conducted
Ryozu Kojima shouts: Once the questions are answered, We can begin discussion!
Raven Welesa: robin i cannot even see you
Robin Linden: or.... I guess I can sit on the steps
Michael Dumont: Crassus, it might not work, some Linden AV's aren't recognized the same way as "real" AV's.
DamionStJames Webb: Robin there is a seat in here next to me.
Crasuss Petronius: It's over back here guys.. didn't see this before
Raven Welesa: may we start now robin?
Crasuss Petronius: Shhh guys, she's talking
Robin Linden: is someone the spokesperson here?
Raven Welesa: i have been named one robin
DamionStJames Webb: Raven is the elected spokesperson, I'm the seccondary spokesperson.
Jenie Yoshikawa: i kind of wanted to, but someone else spoke up before i could lol
Crasuss Petronius: Raven's the spokesperson.. I was the initial rally dude kinda guy..
Kamael Xevious: And I speak for myself, since I seem to be the only one with my opinion here.
Robin Linden: well it's nice to meet so many new people!
Jenie Yoshikawa:
Crasuss Petronius: Let's all smily evilly at her >8D
DamionStJames Webb: Robin again I welcome you in, theres a cushon here for you
Ryozu Kojima: Raven is
Jakkar Carlos: Mhmm.
Jenie Yoshikawa: im too nice to smile evily lol
Raven Welesa: Robin, with this new act created by the lindens about ageplay, could you please clarify what exactly is being banned?
Dita Takashi is Offline
Linda Zhao shouts: Can we gather close to the sim border?
Angel Fluffy shouts: could Robin and whoever she is talking with at the time please shout? Quite a few people are outside chat range, including people spread over 3 sims.
Crasuss Petronius: .... yeah, can we all kinda move over closer to Dalton so the others can hear?
grumble Loudon shouts: The chat repeater has died for some unknown reason
Raven Welesa shouts: Robin, with this new act created by the lindens about ageplay, could you please clarify what exactly is being banned?
Kurt Powell is Offline
grumble Loudon shouts: Chat repeater is now fixed. Sorry for the interuption
Robin Linden: We've asked SL business and land-owners to refrain from promoting sexual activities involving children
Robin Linden: you know, perhaps we should set up a town hall to talk about this
Kurt Powell is Online
Robin Linden: this is sort of impossible
Crasuss Petronius: I'd love that...
Raven Welesa: robin can we go through our quesations here instead of waiting?
Jenie Yoshikawa: good point
Robin Linden: sure Raven
Ryozu Kojima: Would you like us to simply giv eyou the notecard?
DamionStJames Webb: secconded
Antoine Trenchard: An official blog post to start would be much appreciated
Robin Linden: but I can't promise everyone will hear
Ryozu Kojima: Wait on that
Crasuss Petronius worries about the notecard because there's a couple key points that it doesn't ask.
Kamael Xevious: Is anyone logging this? We could post a chat log.
Ryozu Kojima: I am
Ciqala Talaj: No notecard please, we all need to hear.
Jenie Yoshikawa: im just worried that more freedoms will be lost here in SL
Raven Welesa shouts: How will Linden Labs make sure this does not become a slippery slope issue including more and more bans of other groups in the future?
Crasuss Petronius: Robin, can I ask a question?
Ryozu Kojima: Crasuss, we have a couple more questions in the notecard, let's get those out of the way
Crasuss Petronius: mmk
DamionStJames Webb: And if necessary give it to me becuase I have the floor after raven
Robin Linden: Raven, our decision at this point is to acknowledge that the depiction of sexual activities involving minors is both offensive to many people
Ryozu Kojima: Also, it would be best if I"m not the only one logging, as I might get disconnected
Robin Linden: and illegal in some companies.
Crasuss Petronius: (countries?)
Robin Linden: For LL to be a viable business we have to make that kind of decision from time to time.
Wolfgang Fackler shouts: Robin, Green hair is offensive to me, i think we should ban it from SL.
You: I'm loging, I'll post a copy up on SC
Zyriik Vacirca shouts: so is forced rape
Arokha Sieyes shouts: Stop, let Raven and Robin get the obvious questions out of the way.
Robin Linden: Wolfgang, green hair isn't illegal
Jakkar Carlos: So is killing
Crasuss Petronius: don't gang up on her guys
Ciqala Talaj: Some people find furries offencive too though, will they be next to go?
Raven Welesa shouts: Will these changes be added to the TOS and policy?
Kamael Xevious: I must say, that kind of reasoning is worrisome. You could easily say the same thing about the gay community in SL.
DamionStJames Webb: Silence! Robin / raven has the floor
Sparkly Rainbow: depiction of homosexual acts is also illegal in some countries - will that be the next thing banned
Ryozu Kojima shouts: Raven Is the spokesperson, and I am the question taker, please direction questions to me in IM, and allow Raven to answer
Robin Linden: The terms of service ban illegal activity and the community standards have a clause against broadly offensive behavior
010000100111001001100001011011 Omlet is Online
Antoine Trenchard: The point is that sexual ageplay in here can be illegal in itself in many countries, LL had no choice but to act or countries like the Netherlands may have blocked access to SL
Robin Linden: Please keep in mind that what we have asked is that people do not PROMOTE this behavior
Raven Welesa shouts: Will Linden Labs eventually make a blog post on the subject, and if so, what steps will be taken to describe not only what IS banned, but what is NOT banned as well?
Robin Linden: I have no plan to try to do that Raven.
Raven Welesa: What, if any laws are being broken, and what jurisdiction do these fall under?
Raven Welesa shouts: What, if any laws are being broken, and what jurisdiction do these fall under?
Sparkly Rainbow: is taking part in "ageplay" going to be an offense one would get banned for ? is rape ? is sodomy ?
Robin Linden: There are european countries that ban what we call ageplay
Lalinda Lovell shouts: are we allowed to have the sexual minor mature behaviour in our private parcels?
Moonflax Jewel: It seems like the first of many pushes, like the people who have pressured you will see this as a victory, and push again. You do realize that this extreme group of intolerance would prefer if we didn't exist at all
Antoine Trenchard: Robin - what about the last line in the new policy - about people who represent themselves as underage, what did that mean?
Ryozu Kojima shouts: PLEASE DO NOT SPAM QUESTIONS TO ROBIN!
Ryozu Kojima shouts: SEND ME YOUR QUESTIONS SO WE CAN AKS THEM ONE AT A TIME
Robin Linden: Moonflax, we're responding to the need to maintain Linden Lab and Second Life as a viable business.
Crasuss Petronius: Guys, send your questions to Ryozu Kojima
Ryozu Kojima shouts: I will check for doubled questions and relay them to Raven
Dita Takashi is Online
Moonflax Jewel: Seeing cracks in SL's stance for tolerance and diversity is something I find disheartning.
Robin Linden: Antoine, we have had a policy for a long time, in fact since we started, that states that minors under 18 are not allowed on the main Second Life region.
Raven Welesa shouts: Why now? What caused this sudden change in policy?
Robin Linden: If someone tells us, or is reported, that they are underage we will close their account pending proof of age.
Crasuss Petronius: ... There's a difference between really being 18, and the fantasy. -_-
Antoine Trenchard: So it's a bout RL age then, not someone claiming to be 10yo in their profile
Robin Linden: Raven, both the Netherlands and the italian governments have laws against this behavior.
Robin Linden: Kessie, that's right.
Raven Welesa shouts: Aside from Roleplay, -what- children?
Robin Linden: Yes Antoine.
Snakekiss Noir shouts: banning sexual preferences is pointless people will nto alter those under presusre or persecution
Robin Linden: But....if someone claims to be 10 in their profile, how do we know they mean in RL or SL?
Ciqala Talaj: So we can still claim to be 10 in char, as long as we are over 18 in rl?
Murreki Fasching: Shouldnt you know that, if you have the credit card info?
Crasuss Petronius: In the furry world we use the term "In-Character" or "IC"
DamionStJames Webb: Raven may I have the floor?
Robin Linden: Murreki, I don't have cc information for the vast majority of people in Second life.
Ciqala Talaj: You aren't suppost to be on here if you are that young in RL.
Raven Welesa shouts: some consider furries to be performing beastiality, are furries next to be targeted robin>?
Snakekiss Noir shouts: u should create a larger sim for an issue that galvanises this many people to attend
Antoine Trenchard: virtual bestiality is not a crime in some countries that is the difference
Alexaandera Metty: I agree, if you ban sexual ageplay you would have to ban ageplay in full, and that means saying someone can't roleplay their avatar the way they want to.
Raven Welesa shouts: and with that last question i step down
Robin Linden: I'm afraid I can't keep up with all these questions.
Raven Welesa: could u answer my last one robin?
Ciqala Talaj: You can put your real age in your first life info.
Purplejunkie Ren: oye...Guys. Slow down. o.o;
DamionStJames Webb: Wait a minute....I thought I had the floor.
Robin Linden scrolls back to Raven's last question
Ryozu Kojima: Sorry Damion
Crasuss Petronius: How do you shout?
Ryozu Kojima: Yes, you have the floor, my apologies
DamionStJames Webb: Thank you Ryozu. I had a breif 5 qiestions I wanted to ask .
Jakkar Carlos shouts: Oh oh, I have an idea..... why not block other countries from entering ageplay sims if it's illegal in other countries?
Ryozu Kojima shouts: [17:15] Crasuss Petronius: Quetsion from me: How can Linden worry about the laws of the rest of the world when the server resides in the State of California. By opening up that door, they are claiming they are legally responsible for the rest of the world's inequities rather than setting the standard for all people who reside on SecondLife to be treated fairly and equally without discrimination towards other's beliefs. By bowing down to other country's laws, they are in essense changing the founding principles on which SeconfLife was founded.
Robin Linden: Raven, we have a responsibility to keep minors separate from adult content in Second Life. That's a more pressing concern to Linden lab
Crasuss Petronius: Jakkar, guys, don't shout, hand your questions to Ryozu
Robin Linden: than any single Resident's desire to roleplay an age other than their own.
Raven Welesa shouts: Robin before i leave, this is going to cause numerous griefer attacks across the grid, i hope the lindens are prepared for this and alos how many people will leave everything they have here, further hurting the financial side of linden labs
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Guys, please, IM your questions to Ryozu Kojima so they can be taken in turn. We're gonna drive this poor lady nuts...
Raven Welesa: good day ma'am
Robin Linden: Raven, why would this cause a griefer attack?
Antoine Trenchard: The appropriate solution is taking virtual pedophilia out of the public realm which is what LL are doing, you can still do it in private
Raven Welesa: because u have given them ammo to attack us
Moonflax Jewel: We're talkiing about freedom and tolerance, not simply a desire, and about many, not just one person.
Robin Linden: Crasuss, thank you.
Ciqala Talaj: These are not real minors though!
DamionStJames Webb: Robin I am Damion St. James. I represent The Adults portraying Adults in the ageplay community. I also represent Yiffstar.com and the Yiffstar forum.

DamionStJames Webb: I thank you for taking this opproturnity to allow us to address our concerns and I acknowledge the great work Linden Labs must perform to maintain this sim for our enjoyment.
DamionStJames Webb: You: I thank you for taking this opproturnity to allow us to address our concerns and I acknowledge the great work Linden Labs must perform to maintain this sim for our enjoyment.
Snakekiss Noir shouts: too many poeple are shut OUT of this meeting it cant make valid decisions
Robin Linden: yes Damion
Robin Linden: Snakekiss, this was never intended to be a policy making meeting.
DamionStJames Webb: My first question: Will private lands still be allowed to host activities pertaining to the sexual practive of ageplay?
Robin Linden: Office hours are for small group discussion.
DamionStJames Webb shouts: You: My first question: Will private lands still be allowed to host activities pertaining to the sexual practive of ageplay?
Robin Linden: However, since you've all come out, we'll do the best we can!
Ryozu Kojima shouts: Please direction questions to Me, I will relay questions once Damion is finished
Crasuss Petronius: Raven, Robin, can I ask a few questions?
Robin Linden: Damion, if there are people in SL saying they are under 18, then we will need to hold their account to verify their age.
DamionStJames Webb: I'll hand the floor over to you Crassus when I am finished.
Murreki Fasching: So in essence, the most that can happen to an adult protraying Ageplay is that they'll get their account suspended until LL can verify that they ARE truely above 18?
Arokha Sieyes: *In private
Crasuss Petronius shouts: So am I cool to ask a few things, guys?
DamionStJames Webb shouts: Allow me to clarify perhps maddam Robin. I mean the practive of ageplay as in the person's avatar be of a younger shape and body of a minor while the parties involved are acknowledging that (out of character) they are adults. So under that clarification, does that mean that ageplay on private lands will still consititue an investiagation?
DamionStJames Webb: I wil hand the floor over to you when im done crassus
Ciqala Talaj: That's what it sounds like Blue.
Ronin Arnaz shouts: BAN FURRIES FOR THEIR VIRTUAL BESTIALITY! BAN VIRTUAL PROSTITUTION AND GAMBLING! LET'S BE CONSISTENT AND RIGHTEOUS!
Kithylin Perth shouts: Pedophilia is illegal, as is beastiality, which is kinda like furry, cubfurs are kinda like pedophilia, it's a slippery slope that could get all furs banned.. or atleast the "deviant" ones. which is 99% of them.
Murreki Fasching: Heere we go..
Robin Linden: Damion, what we've said is that the promotion of sexual activities involving minors violates our community standards
Raven Welesa shouts: but no one is a minor under the premise of this game!
Alexaandera Metty: real minors or sl minors?
Ronin Arnaz shouts: BUT PROMOTION OF SEXUAL ACTIVITIES WITH ANIMALS IS OKAY?
Ronin Arnaz shouts: I'll be sure to let the blogosphere know.
Robin Linden: we've also said that anyone who presents themselves as being under 18 will be removed from SL until we have been able to verify their age
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Stop shouting guys...
Zyriik Vacirca: yes but things such as rape that go on in gorean sims is that also not allowed now since it so much "Promotes" a similar aspect?
Arden Logan shouts: we wouldn't have this issue if LL didn't get rid of age verification in the first place
DamionStJames Webb shouts: Robin you're not answering my question as I've stated.
Ciqala Talaj: I think we should be allowed to play kids/ cubs.. just not to promote sex with them. Ex: cub brothel. But you should still be allowed to do it in private.
Cadaei Wilder: To be honest, this all sounds like LL are being as reasonable as they can be expected to be about this, to me.
Robin Linden: No Linda
DamionStJames Webb shouts: So I will reask the question
Ryozu Kojima: In essence, you refuse to say, that Ageplay itself isd allowed in private. Understandable, considering that's a pretty dangerous statement
Robin Linden: Arden, we have never had age verification.
Robin Linden: Credit Cards do not verify age.
Jakkar Carlos: Teenagers can have credit cards, you know.
DamionStJames Webb shouts: People would you please let me speak I have the floor
Crasuss Petronius should point out that anything short of a global identification system, you would not be able to verify age, but RL age is not the question he's asking.
Purplejunkie Ren: Who can I send my question to?
Ryozu Kojima shouts: Send questions to me, please, I will ask them once i have the floor
Moonflax Jewel: So Robin, does this mean if I have an underage IC form, and I'm checked out as being legally of age OOC, I'll be left be?
Ronin Arnaz shouts: Is midget-play okay?
Robin Linden: We are building a better system for verifying age that doesn't require credit cards.
DamionStJames Webb shouts: Robin I am reasking my seccond question.
Moonflax Jewel: Ok, then, if a better age verification is brought in, can we expect that this encroachment can be reversed for the sake of a stance for diversity and tolerance?
Kamael Xevious whispers to Robin... "Hang in there, you're doing great."
Ronin Arnaz shouts: How do we separate the flat-chested midgets from the lolis?
Ryozu Kojima: Loli is a term for a young girl, fyi Robin
Robin Linden: Moonflax, the policy states that we will not allow the promotion of sexual activities involving minors
Raven Welesa shouts: would u pull that rule if u lost about 30 checks that pay for sims?
Alexaandera Metty: lolz robin
DamionStJames Webb shouts: For the last time I have the floor people
Cadaei Wilder: Then ask the question, Damion.
DamionStJames Webb shouts: Then I move onto my third question
Robin Linden sends a hug to Kamael
Ryozu Kojima shouts: Let me restate Robin here everyone: What is banned is PROMOTION of sexual activites with Percieved Minors
Kanji Jessop shouts: Orderand clarity is a bit hard to come by when everyone is emotional.
Moonflax Jewel: If there are no more minors ooc, then the only minors you speak of are IC (see: in character)
DamionStJames Webb: What guarantee does the linden labs have for the buisnesses in SL that grossed income based on the premice of ageplay and sale of ageplay products.
Lalinda Lovell shouts: ryozu, she never said that, she said we CANNOT ageplay even on our own sims, thats not just promotion
Ronin Arnaz shouts: So we can molest virtual children and flat chested midgets as long as we don't advertise?
Moonflax Jewel: Ok, can I ask you, how is the name of a group considered promotion?
Robin Linden: ewww Ronin
Ryozu Kojima shouts: I did not see that statement Lalinda
Moonflax Jewel: I feel that editing group name was going too far
Zyriik Vacirca: ronin lets have more appropriate and improtant questions please
Robin Linden: Damian, there are no guarantees for the success of any businesses in SL
Moonflax Jewel: Group names and personal profiles are nt like handing out pamphlets.
Crasuss Petronius: ....
Ciqala Talaj shouts: Ronin shut up talking like that. It's not real molestation!
Raven Welesa: robin i am a babyfur, with my look am i now considered banned form sl?
Alexaandera Metty: meditate
Ronin Arnaz shouts: I said it was virtual.
Kanji Jessop shouts: Ronin, I'd advise you to be civil, everyone else is at least trying while you seem to spill filth. It makes your side of the debate look better when you're at least civil with the ones you're debating with.
Robin Linden: Raven, I'm not concerned with what you look like. This is about behavior.
Antoine Trenchard: Let's keep calm here people, Robin is doing her best to answer our questions
Jenie Yoshikawa: goodnes, this could be going better
Kale Bailey: Excluse may I ask a question?
DamionStJames Webb: Then my follow up question to my last is - Since buisnesses pertaining to, the sale of products and the facilities that gross income because of ageplay is now constituted illegal, then what compensation for loss of wages if any will Linden Labs offer?
Robin Linden: Behavior and promotion of activities that are both considered offensive and illegal in many quarters.
Lalinda Lovell shouts: ok this is clear! - [17:29] You: robin, just simply yes or no please, can we ageplay in our own sims? [17:30] Robin Linden: No Linda
Raven Welesa: i act young too
Moonflax Jewel: So then avatars are fine
Ciqala Talaj: Robin? I play a 10 year old colt.. does this mean I'm banned?
Kale Bailey: Please?
Ryozu Kojima sighs.
DamionStJames Webb: You: Then my follow up question to my last is - Since buisnesses pertaining to, the sale of products and the facilities that gross income because of ageplay is now constituted illegal, then what compensation for loss of wages if any will Linden Labs offer?
Ryozu Kojima: These things are impossible torun ;_;
Michael Dumont: What Damian is saying, Robin, is that there are ESTABLISHED and SUCCESSFUL bussinesses in SL that cater to ageplayers. What happens to them? Raven owns two whole SIMS dedicated to ageplay...
Robin Linden: I understand that Blue. You're right, this is very difficult.
DamionStJames Webb: I await my answer
Robin Linden: I thought 10 year old colts were pretty old for horses!
Robin Linden: (jk)
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Alright, I'll be flat out honest... the more people shout out loud, the easier it is for someone not to answer questions properly, and we want answers, so the best way is to let one person at a time handle the questions, or we'll never get the answers we're looking for.
Jenie Yoshikawa: lol
Murreki Fasching: hehe
Cadaei Wilder: Robin already said there are no guarantees for incvome of SL buisnesses.
Zyriik Vacirca: wow lol
Kale Bailey: May I please ask somethng?
Ciqala Talaj: 10 human years.. like a 10 year old kid.
Ryozu Kojima: Please send me your question
Robin Linden: If you own an ageplay business you will not be allowed to promote it in a public channel.
Antoine Trenchard: So is sexual ageplay, as a behavior, now banned?
Raven Welesa: define ageplay
DamionStJames Webb shouts: Thats not an answer to my question robin
Ryozu Kojima: Relax Damion
Kale Bailey: I cant get to your name fast enough Ryozu.
Moonflax Jewel: Robin, are we llowed to have hanouts? Our own buildings and property?
Ryozu Kojima: It is actually: Linden Labs will not take responsibility for businesses even if they are affected by policy change
Moonflax Jewel: hangouts*
Robin Linden: It sounds like Ryozu has been collecting questions. Maybe we could get further if only one person asked questions, and i'll try to answer.
Ciqala Talaj: I do not own a business, but I play a kid.. What is going to happen to me? Will my char be forced to 'grow' up?
Robin Linden: I have about 20 more minutes.
Michael Dumont: "Promote it in a public channel" Does that include place listings and classifieds? How else is the business supposed to attract customers?
Raven Welesa: robin, define ageplay
Moonflax Jewel: Or are we not allowed to have clubs and gathering places of our own?
DamionStJames Webb: I am the one with the floor
Ryozu Kojima: Damion, do you have any more questions
Robin Linden: Michael, yes it does, and it includes profiles.
DamionStJames Webb: I have one last question before I hand the floor over to Cassius
Jakkar Carlos: woman avatar, I mean
Purplejunkie Ren: Wow, do you guys listen at all? The promotion or public demenstration of ageplay is no longer permitted. As for taking the persona of a younger character, as long as you don't engage in sexual ageplay, or promote ageplay, you're fine. From what I gathered, at least.
Jakkar Carlos: I can ageplay. I can always put on my eighty-five years old woman and go molesting people.... after all, I'm playing age that I am not.
Robin Linden: Jery, the official statement was made in the notecard, to people who needed to know.
Crasuss Petronius shouts: That's Crasuss o_o
Gordon Wendt: wow rough crowd Robin
Jenie Yoshikawa sighs
DamionStJames Webb shouts: My last question is this....
Moonflax Jewel: No, we should not be told what e can roleplay
Crasuss Petronius: Moonflax, please.
Ryozu Kojima shouts: ORDER PLEASE! I realize you're all eager to have your question answered!, But PLEASE, send them to me, the more shouted questions the LONGER this will take!
Dita Takashi: This is going to be extremly difficult if people keep shouting and we dont have ONE specific person directing the questions to Robin -.-
Crasuss Petronius: I know you're trying to help, but you're making things confused
Robin Linden: Purplejunkie, I think you've got it!
Moonflax Jewel: ok
Purplejunkie Ren: I do this thing called pay attention instead of shouting out random stuff.
Arokha Sieyes: So sexual ageplay, regardless of how 'private' is banned?
Lisa Yohogania: i have to agree, jsut passing out note cards is a very low way of telling us. i say that thier should be a official anouncment of your new policies. Passing out the note card says your trying to keep it secret from the rest of SL
Robin Linden: I absolutely agree Lem. It will.
Purplejunkie Ren: Not necessarly. You could ageplay in an Intstant Message.
Ronin Arnaz shouts: LL has recently been going well out of their way to avoid public interaction on policy.
Teellox Raymaker is Offline
Purplejunkie Ren: It's PUBLIC ageplay they're concerned about.
DamionStJames Webb shouts: HEY Can I ask my last question yall?
Cadaei Wilder: Damion, did you ask your last Question?
Robin Linden: No Lisa, all it says it that we're trying to work with those who are affected.
DamionStJames Webb shouts: Nope
Cadaei Wilder: Then get on with it!
DamionStJames Webb shouts: Ive been waiting for people to shut up
Cadaei Wilder: You'll wait forever.
Robin Linden: Damion, please ask your question.
Tiberious Neruda: well, then. That's that. The slope has been started down, and nobody's safe
DamionStJames Webb: Thank you.
Alexaandera Metty: ok so basicly, I can no longer be naughty and overknowing of sexual things in public sims, but in private I can?
Jenie Yoshikawa: please people, calm down.. you can always send an offline question
Lilfox Knibber: so let me get this strait we ca play a character that is young but as long as we arentpromoting sex we are ok
Robin Linden waits for Damion's question. Next up is Ryoza
Dita Takashi: Ryozu*
Ciqala Talaj: If I want to have sex with my roleplay partener in a public sex place, will I be forced to 'grow up'?
Ryozu Kojima: No one gets my name right ;_;
Purplejunkie Ren: If you want, keep your current persona as a kid. Just make the statement that you're over 18.
Robin Linden: sorry: Ryozu!
Lilfox Knibber: i dont have sex in sl
Kamael Xevious: You will at my property, Ciqala... but that's been the case for two years.
Cadaei Wilder: Damion, you're taking ages here...
Crasuss Petronius: Purple, that's unacceptable.
Lilfox Knibber: thats what rl is for
Jakkar Carlos sexes Lil up, "I'm a first then, YAY!" <3
Robin Linden: Damion - you still there?
Purplejunkie Ren: by your standards. :3
Jakkar Carlos: =P
Cadaei Wilder: Shall we move on to get through some questions?
DamionStJames Webb: My first half of the question - what if anything does linden labs plan on doing to stop people from advertizing ageplay on a different forum IE Yiffstar.com or advertizling ageplay in SL on their own websites. Seccondly What guarentee do we have from linden labs that this will not begin a ban on all other "unique" sexual activities such as homosexualty and Furrs
Ciqala Talaj: Thanks... but what if me and my partener want to go to a public 'yiff' place? We shouldn't be forced to go to a private place when others are still allow to have sex in public.
Robin Linden: What you do on your own website is your business.
DamionStJames Webb: And Im taking ages simpy because I want my questions worded properly and inteligantly
Purplejunkie Ren: Inteligently*
Crasuss Petronius: She only has 15 minutes left for her hours, guys.
Cadaei Wilder: lol
DamionStJames Webb: II'll mispell it if I want to
Robin Linden: This isn't about homosexuality or furries. It's about Linden Lab's responsibility to safely separate minors from the adult content found in Second Life.
DamionStJames Webb: Alright with that, I am going to hand the floor over to Crassus.
Ryozu Kojima: Crasuss, could you IM me your questions?
Raven Welesa: then start enforcing ways to prove their age, not discriminate
Ronin Arnaz shouts: But aren't minors already banned from the main grid?
Crasuss Petronius: It's impossible to, because I have followups and if I do that, then there will not be any
Ryozu Kojima: I'm taking the floor.
Zyriik Vacirca: yes but it is adult on the other side of the keyboard in which we all speak to
Crasuss Petronius: Ryozu..
Ronin Arnaz shouts: We're talking about adults portraying minors.
Moonflax Jewel: If this is about protecting real minors, then this can be reversed when a better age verification comes into play!
Zyriik Vacirca: so why does it so much matter if the maturity is their
Ryozu Kojima: I have a lot of questions from various people who will be very angry if they aren't asked
DamionStJames Webb: I am going to withdraw from the discussion since I must be to work soon.
Crasuss Petronius: Ryozu, please. I need to ask her a few things very quickly.
Zyriik Vacirca: if they dont like it SL is a big enough world to dfind a spot with what that person wants or desires
Ronin Arnaz shouts: Yeah, what kid wants to pretend to be a kid online?
Jakkar Carlos: Kids is more likely to pretend to be adults.
Streak Wildung: The fact of the matter is, that this grid is clearly indicated as mature and no minors allowed, if a single individual decides to break that rule and violate that TOS it is solely his fault, not all of ours
Ryozu Kojima: Please make it quick
Streak Wildung: and LLs approach to elliminating the matter, by ending it all is not a solution its simple a fuel to the fire
Cadaei Wilder: Crassus or ryozu, please ask your questions quickly.
Robin Linden: I've got about 10 more minutes.
Ryozu Kojima: To clarify the "what children" comment, if Linden Labs is doing it's job in preventing minors on the Main Grid, who is victimized by Ageplay, since ageplay does not involve real children? Doesn't the statement of protecting minors from sexual content apply to other content as well?
Dita Takashi sighs.
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Ok, so I have the floor?
Ryozu Kojima shouts: To clarify the "what children" comment, if Linden Labs is doing it's job in preventing minors on the Main Grid, who is victimized by Ageplay, since ageplay does not involve real children? Doesn't the statement of protecting minors from sexual content apply to other content as well?
Kamael Xevious: Please, because I would like to comment before Robin has to leave.
Dita Takashi: just post questions and be done with it.
Ronin Arnaz shouts: So it's perfectly okay for children who get on here against the TOS to see yiffing, as long as they don't see sex with flat-chested midgets?
Purplejunkie Ren grins
Angel Fluffy shouts: Robin: can you explain how banning consensual roleplay between adults on the internet protects real life minors who aren't allowed in that area and are expelled if caught?
Robin Linden: Ryozu, that is the position we have been taking. However, as I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation. that isn't the position taken around the world.
Crasuss Petronius shouts: The reason why I'm asking if I have the floor is because I've noticed there's some issues that seem to be going around in circles that I would like clarification on
Silver Inada: Isn't this technically banning intellectual property?
Raven Welesa: yeah and gays aren't taken around the world either robin
Purplejunkie Ren: My only concern with this is whether it's a morality issue or a lawful issue. o.o;
Streak Wildung: Such remarks don't help raven
Robin Linden: While we want to be open, we also need to be responsible and to make choices that should help keep SL alive.
Raven Welesa: and u are coming closer to killing it
Ronin Arnaz shouts: And just to make sure, is it still okay for me to pay real money to a virtual animal for cyber sex?
Ryozu Kojima shouts: If it is not already in the TOS, will LL place a section about each member must follow the rules of their respective country? Does LL plan to add a section to the Rules about this ageplay policy change, or is it considered as covered?
Ciqala Talaj: I agree with Angel Fluffy.
Lisa Yohogania: Raven has a very valid point Robin
Crasuss Petronius: Alright, Robin...
Antoine Trenchard: As a community it is imperative we have some standards, otherwise SL is in a state of anarchy. LL have done the right thing
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Alright, Robin...
Lalinda Lovell: are we allowed to be dolls that look young?
Streak Wildung: Its as simple as a minor buying a game that is rated above their age level
Purplejunkie Ren: Yes.
Streak Wildung: It is not the companies place, nor the individuals players place to attempt to determine if the person is of age
Purplejunkie Ren: You just can't engage in sexual activities. :3
Crasuss Petronius shouts: First, I need to ask you some key questions. A) Do you realize that the two issues, ageplay, and keeping actual minors off of SL are two completely seperate and unrelated issues?
Streak Wildung: It is both the child involved and ht parents resonsbilities to regulate what their child does
Robin Linden: I'm afraid I don't agree with that Streak.
Raven Welesa: a bad business decision
Crasuss Petronius shouts: First, I need to ask you some key questions. A) Do you realize that the two issues, ageplay, and keeping actual minors off of SL are two completely seperate and unrelated issues?
Angel Fluffy shouts: Robin: are you going to ban any criticism of the govt. of China, to avoid being blocked in China? Are there *any* lines you can state that you will not cross, because of ethical principles?
Purplejunkie Ren: You guys are so extreme. o.o;
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Guys please, stop, I want to get to the bottom of something/...
Michael Dumont: Streak has a point. If a child buys a mature rate game, the parent's can't sue the makers for producing it. It was not marketed or meant for them.
Robin Linden: Crassus, yes.
Zyriik Vacirca: well were talking about not just a few people getting kicked out of sl because of what they prefer
Crasuss Petronius shouts: And you reside in the state of California, correct?
Dita Takashi shouts: Why don't you guys stop shouting the same question over and over again and just wait for it to be answered so we can get on to the next quetsion and be done with this.
Alison Alena: on reading the community standards in appears that Linden Lab are the ones in violation in this

Lalinda Lovell shouts: are we allowed to have sex as dolls?
Crasuss Petronius shouts: The servers of SL reside in the state of California, correct, Robin
Cadaei Wilder: I think the clear priority has to be better age verification to keep minors off SL altogether. In the meantime, this is probably the best that anyone can do.
Dita Takashi sighs again..
Zyriik Vacirca: Lalinda please be more logical in the conversation
Jakkar Carlos shouts: Mmm... why am I reminded of Rozen Maiden?
Robin Linden: Some of them Crassus. Some are in Texas.
Ryozu Kojima: I have TWO pressing questions
Kamael Xevious: and there's talk of a Euro server farm too, I've heard.
Robin Linden: yes Ryozu?
Robin Linden: And one day possibly in Asia as well kamael.
Arokha Sieyes: I have one question, just a very short yes/no, whenever you get the chance Robin, just say when.
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Alright, the united states. Are you legally liable for any other laws in any other jurisdiction in the world besides California and Texas? LEGALLY liable, mind you... not public-relations-liable.. I'm talking on a strict legal matter here
Ryozu Kojima: One question that is not clarified: Will a childlike AV engaging in sexual activity in private be in violation of policy? Are Child Avatars themselves banned, or only sexual activity? Or only Sexual Activity And Advertisment in public?
Cadaei Wilder: They're not legally liable.
Robin Linden: Quite possibly Crasuss. But I'm not a lawyer, I can't say with certainty. At this point I'm not sure anyone can.
Tiberious Neruda: not with the US internet gambling laws
Crasuss Petronius shouts: I can tell you as a pre-law student in college, you are not liable. Why then is Linden Labs concerning itself with the laws of other jurisdictions if it is for none other than mere public image and money?
Cadaei Wilder: They're not legally liable, but things can be made difficult for them as a buisness.
Robin Linden: Ryozu, what we have said is that the depiction of sexual activity involving minors may violate real-world laws in some areas.
Mysti Isachenko shouts: you know that SL was built of Sex and Voilence!
Robin Linden: In addition the larger SL community has made it clear that they find this activity offensive.
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Guys, please, stop pulling her attention from what I'm asking
Ryozu Kojima: Yes, but will it violate LL policy from now on, if done in private?
Ronin Arnaz shouts: So, is illegal gambling still okay?
Ryozu Kojima: Keyword of course is private
Zyriik Vacirca: well couldnt they just go somewhere else?
Robin Linden: Therefore, we have chosed not to allow the "advertising or promotion" of age play or related activities in any public forum
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Guys, please please stop..
Kamael Xevious raises his hand.
Zyriik Vacirca: if they dont like it their are plent of sims to go to
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin, did you see my follow-up?
Ryozu Kojima: So "In Private" is therefor not in violation?
Robin Linden: in-world textures (i.e. pictures), classified ads, the SL forums, and parcel descriptions. This would also include profiles.
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin..
Zyriik Vacirca: why priofiles?
Arokha Sieyes: Because they're public
Zyriik Vacirca: profiles*
Ronin Arnaz shouts: Come join Flat Chested Midgets and Friends! Tringo night scheduled soon!
Cadaei Wilder: Crassus, just get your questions out, quick as you can.
Mysti Isachenko shouts: Me either, I bet the majority of Sl would actually have voted the other way, they are just hiding behind false advertising!
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin: I can tell you as a pre-law student in college, you are not liable. Why then is Linden Labs concerning itself with the laws of other jurisdictions if it is for none other than mere public image and money?
Robin Linden: Crassus, about being a law student?
Zyriik Vacirca: if they dont like what they are seeing they can close the dwindow and walk away no?
Antoine Trenchard: The majority of people do find it offensive, just look at the forums
Ryozu Kojima: What constitutes a public channel?
Robin Linden: Because we are a growing and international business Crassus.
Robin Linden: Ryozu, all the things I listed.
Ryozu Kojima: Alright
Arokha Sieyes: Robin, can I ask my question? its already worded, and just a yes/no.
Lalinda Lovell shouts: can private be my own sim, or does it mean a skybox at 500m?
Ronin Arnaz shouts: So you're basically saying that you're selling out your loyal user base for business reasons?
Kamael Xevious: And opening a server farm in, say, France would subject them to those laws.
Arden Logan shouts: The forums are hardly a majority opinion
Robin Linden: Sure Arokha
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin: So, you're saying it's hurting future business opportunities?
Marianne McCann: I have one brief questrion if I may, too
Arokha Sieyes: My question, worded as 'good' as possible, is that if two adults, of verified age, wish to participate in ageplay, in private land, and not 'promote' it to others, can they do so without interference from LL?
Ciqala Talaj: You can't make everyone happy, no matter what you do there will be at least SOME people who won't like the choices you make.
Ryozu Kojima: She wont' answer that question Arokha, not with a yes or no
Robin Linden: Arokha, under those circumstances LL would not intervene.
Arokha Sieyes: Ok, thank you.
Ryozu Kojima: Oh, finally
Antoine Trenchard: And various discussions, it's clearly the majority view. The people here are mostly people who feel threatened so it's hardly representative
Moonflax Jewel: I think it is going too far to control our *personal* profiles!
Ryozu Kojima: Thank you Robin.
Crasuss Petronius: Robin
Tiberious Neruda: Robin: If you're so concerned about following laws, why, then, are casinos and other gambling establishments in SL allowed to operate knowing there's a FEDERAL law prohibiting internet gambling law
Kamael Xevious keeps his hand in the air politely.
Cadaei Wilder: Ah, good. I was hoping that question would get answered, arokha.
Marianne McCann: I have one small question of clarificdation, Does LL know dat :ageplay" is not always a sexual term, an will they *please* clarify what they mean? so there's less confusion?
Crasuss Petronius shouts: This is impossible, guys, please stop?
Arokha Sieyes: np
Lalinda Lovell: robin, can we all have use of one sim, will you donate us of it so its private?
Robin Linden: Yes Kamael?
Ronin Arnaz shouts: So Robin, who do we report the illegal gambling to?
Ronin Arnaz shouts: I want SL to be 100% legal.
Dita Takashi: Venom, my questions are answered for the most part so I'm leaving. Care to join me?
Robin Linden: Kamael you had a question?
Kamael Xevious: Not a question so much as a comment.
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin, is the recent policy change toward legally consenting adults who ageplay on the mature grid in SecondLife spurred on exclusively because of public image and money making business decisions?
Robin Linden: Ronin, this isn't about gambling.
Kamael Xevious: I can email it to you if you would prefer.
Robin Linden: sure.
Kamael Xevious nods.
Purplejunkie Ren raises his hand. o.o
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Guys, I'm trying to ask her a series of questions and the more that's randomly shouted out, the less chance I have at getting to the core of this issue.
Lalinda Lovell shouts: kessie lets do it, we need a sim that bans holland
Robin Linden: OK one more question. Purplejunkie?
Ronin Arnaz shouts: You're avoiding the question Robin. You said yourself that this is about the law.
Zyriik Vacirca: well look at the law towards games such as Grand Theft Auto San Andrease, it so "Promotes" the similar aspect your speaking of, now do you see those disappearing off of shelves due to banishment?
Murreki Fasching: Robin..
Murreki Fasching: I own a business here in SL .. I sell scripted diapers, furniture such as cribs and playpens and the like, plus clothing. Is this against the new rule?
Angel Fluffy shouts: Crasuss Petronius: good question
Ronin Arnaz shouts: Internet gambling is illegal in the US, where the SL servers are located.
Dita Takashi: I'm headin' back to the store, love. Have fun dealing with this mess
Jenie Yoshikawa: if you do not have the floor, SHUT UP!!!
Purplejunkie Ren: I'm sorry, if it's the final question, please give it someone else. ^^;
Ryozu Kojima: Mess indeed.
Marianne McCann raises hand
Lalinda Lovell shouts: why arent adult babies banned????
Marianne McCann: I have one small question of clarificdation, Does LL know dat :ageplay" is not always a sexual term, an will they *please* clarify what they mean? so there's less confusion?
Robin Linden: Marianne?
Geoff Gavaskar shouts: So....if it's ok to be a kid...but not ok to put "ageplay" related terms in the profile...is it going to be a problem for an avatar who declares to be roleplaying a young person, also declare they're straight, or queer? Are we going to replay the 80's her in SL too, where you can't "come out" until your avatar's age is over 18, or risk being "thrown out of school," just like RL?
Crasuss Petronius: She doesn't want to answer my questions now, apparently.
Robin Linden: What we are talking about is the depiction of sexual activity involving minors.
Robin Linden: Call it what you like.
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin
Ronin Arnaz shouts: I'm sure Jack Thompson would be very interested in the rampant virtual violence that takes place in SL.
Ryozu Kojima: Simulated Minors included, I assume.
Robin Linden: Yes Crassus?
Crasuss Petronius shouts: What was the motivation for the recent changes in policy?
Tiberious Neruda shouts: oh do NOT even JOKE about going THERE, Ronin!
Marianne McCann: Thankoo, Robin. The language is imporant, so we all know for sure what is meant is all.

Ronin Arnaz shouts: Whose joking? I'm genuinely concerned for our community.
Zyriik Vacirca: "adult babies" do not involve minors, only such "activities" so to speak. So what is the difference again if the person on the other side of the keyboard is an adult?
Robin Linden: Crassus, we want to act responsibly and make sure that we keep children separate from adult content.
Robin Linden: OK - I have to get going.
Robin Linden: I'm sure we'll talk about this some more.
Arokha Sieyes: Thanks for coming!
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin, you've already admitted this has nothing to do with real children
Ronin Arnaz shouts: Thanks for stopping by Robin.
Jenie Yoshikawa: bye bye Mis Robin.. i hope i can talk to you one day
Marie Salomon: Thanks Robin
Kamael Xevious: Thank you, Robin. You're a brave brave woman.
Murreki Fasching: Thank you for your time!
Cadaei Wilder: Thankyou for your time, Robin.
Karen Palen: Thank you
Alexaandera Metty: what about masterbation? I was masterbating at 12, so why is it wrong?
Antoine Trenchard: Thanks for your time Robin, good job
Caleb Levi: that you can be sure robin
Tiberious Neruda raises his hand/paw
Chet Pinkdot: Robin, thank you so much for coming!
Tiberious Neruda: oh no... not yet...
Crasuss Petronius: Robin
Zyriik Vacirca: thank you for your time miss robin
Arokha Sieyes: Do you get hazard pay, Robin?
Geoff Gavaskar: Thank you Robin!
Lalinda Lovell shouts: if adult babies are allowed, we can be adult kids
Winter Ventura shouts: "What Children?"
Robin Linden: I'm sorry I couldn't get to everyone's questions, but I'll be back for office hours again next week.
Geoff Gavaskar: Is there a URL to the policy please?
Michael Dumont: but you've already stated, Minor's aren't allowed on SL. So what's the big deal if the rest of us consenting adults want to fool around pretending to be kids?
Crasuss Petronius shouts: I'd like to arrange a meeting to discuss this with Linden Labs, is that possible?
Soft Noel: You're very patient, Robin
Lisa Yohogania: thank you for your time in responding to our questions and concerns Robin
Robin Linden: Office hours are posted on the google public calendar called inworld office hours for Lindens
Jamey Satyr shouts: She's just dancing around that they already know it has nothing to do with keeping kids out, it has everything to do with as much money and image as they can get!
Kai Cooper shouts: ROLE PLAYED BY LEGAL ADULTS NO LESS
Antoine Trenchard: Will there be a blog entry soon Robin, people clearly have a lot of questions
Dylan Pierce: It would be nice if the furry community had a single or a few level headed representatives. >.>
Cadaei Wilder: She's already said there won't be a blog entry.
Lalinda Lovell shouts: can we all have a group hug to support each other
Tiberious Neruda: ......
Robin Linden: I think I'd rather talk about this Antoine
Robin Linden: bye everyone
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin, I would like to go to have a meeting with you and the other heads of Linden to talk about this issue in a more situated manner. We've all come here because this is an issue that is effecting the lives of many good, caring and responsible people on SecondLife, and these policy changes are not going to help you protect real children from exploitation. I can gaurantee you that.
Geoff Gavaskar: Heh, we'd also like additional help keeping the world free of RL kids, please!
Robin Linden: cya
Zyriik Vacirca: goodbye
Murreki Fasching: goodbye
Crasuss Petronius shouts: Robin?
Crasuss Petronius shouts: can we arrange a meeting?
Antoine Trenchard: bye
Tiberious Neruda: she's gone
Murreki Fasching: well that did absolutely nothing to help
Jenie Yoshikawa: this could have gone better
Sindy Tsure shouts: Crasuss, please don't assume everybody here agrees with you
Ryozu Kojima: What a clusterfuck
Arden Logan is glad he doesn't pay for this and now never will.
Zyriik Vacirca: u.u
You: I lulzed
Jakkar Carlos: I KNOW!
Lalinda Lovell shouts: i feel like anne frank having to hide who i am
Murreki Fasching: I think its about time we organized an actual group of level headed representatives for this group

Ok Good, now here is the REAL Intent of the Notecard;


As you can read, it PLAINLY deals ONLY with the Public advertising of the activities in SL and No other Aspect.
So, contrary to peoples Misconceptions LL has NOT Banned Age Play within SL.

Angel.

Age-play might be against TOS now, but flat-chested midget AVS aren't!

Join my new group, Flat Chested Midgets and Friends. For all flat-chested midgets and their admirers!

I hesitate, somewhat, to post here, but I think it follows the Resident Question -- Resident Answer idea fairly enough..

I think the (perceived)ambiguity in the notecard is thus:

In one breath, they state:

"The depiction of sexual activity involving minors
may violate real-world laws in some areas, and the Second
Life community as a whole has made it clear that it views
such behavior to be broadly offensive."

In the next, they state:

"Linden Lab chooses not to allow the advertising or promotion of age play or related activities in any public forum -- including in-world
textures, classified ads, the Second Life forums, or parcel
descriptions."

There is a perceived disconnect between those two statements, the first having a qualifier of "depiction of sexual activity involving minors" and the next simply stating that all age play is to be avoided in promotional material .

All that being said, I think the ambiguity is non-existent. They have simply chosen a broader position, and to not limit their objection to simply representations of minors in a sexual context. The grid is, after all, an "adult only" grid, and any representation, factual or not, that a given player is under age, could be problematic.

I contend that there is no clarification necessary. It's pretty clear.

zk

Zaph, your clear explanation is more confusing than the original card

Then I'm afraid you won't ever understand it.

Could you try again, using words to get directly to the point instead of dancing around it?

it's the phrase "Linden Lab chooses not to allow the advertising or promotion of age play or related activities" that concerns me.

What constitutes "age play"?
What constitutes an "age play related activity?"

Linden Labs has used the term "Age Play" inappropriately here.. as the term has a NUMBER of meanings that run the full gambit from your wife saying "spank me daddy" to full on adult diaper play with adult scaled high chairs and cribs, and size XXL footed PJ's. There are hundreds of variations of the theme of what is loosely referred to as "Age Play".

As has been stated numerous times, there are many players in world with child avatars, who do not engage in adult/sexual activities while in character. Not all of these "SL Kids" are kids 24/7. (I, myself, fall into that category). Many "kids" are only kids for short times in SL.. perhaps as a form of release, or escape, from other more adult pass-times and businesses.

(I'll tell you.. nothing is more stressful than selling genitalia.. sometimes you just wanna get away from all that and go be a kid for a while... and go swim, or ride bikes, or climb a tree.)

Some people DO use SL to "get dirty".. and as easy as it is to point fingers and scream "pedophile" the simple fact is.. it's just that same roleplay where the husband and wife are calling each other "Daddy" and "Pumpkin"... just this time.. the costumes are more beleivable.

You know what? I'm not all that worked up that a few prostitutes need to find a new way to advertise. The dirty ageplayers have ALWAYS had to be adept and smart, to find their playmates. What I am concerned about, is the huge smear this puts on the term "age play".. and on the people who have been "ageplayers" for years, and never so much as said the word "Sex".

BY skirting around this issue, and feeding it to the rumour mill.. rather than coming out and announcing the policy change in a forthcoming manner..Linden Labs has only marginalized the minority groups even more. I am very concerned about what happens to those babyfur sims.. as I am to what happens to businesses catering to the ageplay crowds.. both dirty and clean. I am worried about the climate of hate that this whole thing stirs up.. for people roleplaying street urchins in Caledon or other RP sims.

The question was asked.. "what sort of greifing attacks would this cause?"

As of today, every avatar under 2 meters tall.. has a target on their back.

I believe my words were quite directly "to the point". Could you explain your misunderstanding, or where in the notecard text you believe clarification is necessary?

They're not "to the point" as you said the notecard is clear, but failed to give your understanding of their policy. What I got from you is "Their policy is clear," but what it is supposed to be clear about, ionno.

What's not clear, to me, is whether just the promotion is forbidden or the actual practice of it and what "kind" of ageplayer falls under the policy.

What a bunch of chaos... thanks for posting the log though.

"Robin Linden: For LL to be a viable business we have to make that kind of decision from time to time."

That summed it up for me.

Clearly, LL believes that it is bad for business to silently tolerate those that flaunt having "Simulated" sexual acts with "Simulated Minors".

I doubt it has much to do with 'law', it probably comes down to threats of being banned/blocked from the Netherlands, and the loss of revenue from the land holders that reside there.

I have a *strong* dislike for "Sexual Age-Play".
I'm not too wild about censorship either,
but I can see how this decision has become necessary.

For those that worry that this is the first of serveral losses of freedom to come... keep in mind, that tolerating gorean, furry, gay, whatever... is likely BETTER for business, or if nothing else, hardly any worse than tolerating the rampant hetero adult content that exists already.

Read section 5 of the Community Standards. I'll quote it for you here:

Indecency
Second Life is an adult community, but Mature material is not necessarily appropriate in all areas (see Global Standards below). Content, communication, or behavior which involves intense language or expletives, nudity or sexual content, the depiction of sex or violence, or anything else broadly offensive must be contained within private land in areas rated Mature (M). Names of Residents, objects, places and groups are broadly viewable in Second Life directories and on the Second Life website, and must adhere to PG guidelines.

It doesn't take much of a stretch to apply the above emboldened text to the intent of the notecard.

EDIT: The promotion, in a very broad sense, of any sort of child avatar play in SL is what is emphasized, or should be. I'm not the only one who has read that from the card. The platform is intended for adults. If you advertise yourself as an 8 year old kid, whether or not your product or service has any sexual attachment, you should be concerned.

i still can`t believe llabs put a stop to this? after all the PR and cet reports. I wonder why they switched tones after about a year.............I don`t agree with ageplay at all. After working a sex play island......The things i saw would make your head pop!

I would wager that the pressure came from an influence a heck of a lot closer to LL's home than the Netherlands.

If I were someone who uses a child avatar, I wouldn't want my name associated with the term "Ageplay" anymore. It has certainly been tainted, and it's really still unclear how LL defines this term.

Lalinda Lovell shouts: ok this is clear! - [17:29] You: robin, just simply yes or no please, can we ageplay in our own sims? [17:30] Robin Linden: No Linda

Marianne McCann: I have one small question of clarification, Does LL know dat :ageplay" is not always a sexual term, an will they *please* clarify what they mean? so there's less confusion?

I couldn't tell if she addressed this question in the stampede of questions.

Arokha Sieyes: My question, worded as 'good' as possible, is that if two adults, of verified age, wish to participate in ageplay, in private land, and not 'promote' it to others, can they do so without interference from LL?

Robin Linden: Arokha, under those circumstances LL would not intervene.

Robin Linden: If you own an ageplay business you will not be allowed to promote it in a public channel.

Has nothing to do with the folks who want to play kindergartin class dressed up in kiddie suits. Doesnt even say you cant have fake sex with a middle aged gal in a lolita outfit who calls you Mister. What it does say is that they will no longer allow you to advertise yourself as a venue which promotes sexual ageplay. So if your property description says, " kinky,XXX,ageplay" then they will tell you to remove that description or run the risk of getting your ass booted from SL. The 'thought police' dont want you even thinking about such edgy stuff, just in case it makes you go prowling the pre-schools to try it out for real. Its only a matter of time before the 'thought police' and the 'censorship brigade' come crawling in here to stamp their moralities on your forehead in the hopes of making you ' think only nice thoughts'.