Lindens define ageplay!

Its curious that Rationalist (supposedly thinking and open minded) and the process of Rationalizing (a neurotic behavior of making up excuses) - have the same root word.

Makes sense to me... the rationalist is busy being an apologist for both sides, dishing out excuses for everthing. Sounds pretty irrationally rational to me. Sounds like me too.

[edit: precisely as Kidd points out in the third paragraph of the next post. ]

Since etymology and meaning are often independent of each other, it's nothing more than a curiousity.

There's an important distinction between extracting legitiimate kernels from the chaff and making excuses. There's nothing at all irrational about accepting the likelihood that both sides have some legitimate points to make.

On the other hand, when people assert that nothing could change their minds, continuing to try could be considered irrational.

My worry is ow do you know your being blocked?

For some reason I can't log in.... am I being blocked becase I'm a member of an age play group?

And how is his going to be policed?

Surely if we block this wehave to block all "suspect" and non conformist fantasy!

Tha'sput my mind at rest!

Thanks Gaybot....

Iona x

So, you're saying that this requirement is odious, in the way that being forced to wear a pink triangle or a yellow star would also be odious? The more i think about what you're saying, the more I agree with you. I say that with some trepidation, because I don't want to equate the RL terror felt by those forced to wear the pink triangle and yellow star with that felt by the child and teen-age avatars--I don't want to trivialize RL terror and RL descrimination.

I'm sure that people that equate SAP in SL with the real world problems of real world children don't intend to trivialize RL abuse of children, but after reading all these posts, that is the feeling I get. And I wish they'd stop. But since they're unlikely to, then I'd like to say, "I get it!" and agree with them that the RL problems of RL children are serious, shouldn't be trivialized, aren't easily solved, and require multi-modal activities to protect children.

That said, I don't think policies that persecute child avatars in SL actually help protect RL children, not even a little bit. And the attitudes that support persecution, and the actions taken without considering the effects the persecution has on these SL "children", is the same kind of lack of empathy the abuser shows towards the abused. So, let's show some empathy for the feeling of alienation and unwanted distinction this poorly thought-out policy is having on our child avatar SL residents, m'kay?

I suspect LL was just worrying about profiles where people were hinting they just might be - you know, underage (wink) - in RL, and not jsut talking about what they portray in SL. Just a guess, though.

I'll take you up on that "not as clear as it could be"...how old does an avatar have to be to appear to be "obviously adult"? I think the shortest you can make an avatar is about 4 foot...but would a 5 foot avatar still be a child, or just a short adult (my grandmother was just under 5 foot when she died - at the age of 97...)

Hell, when a REAL LIFE girl gets past 12 and starts slapping on make up, you'd be hard pressed to guess her age accurately. Equally, I know a man in real life who regularly receives abuse because his wife LOOKS ten years old - despite being just under 30.

Again - it's not WHERE you draw the line, it's WHO draws it...without a clear definition of WHAT a child avatar looks like, the current rules and focus on sexual age play ARE going to lead to false accusations and witch hunting WITHIN SL. "Dear Lindens I just saw a guy in a clinch with an Avatar and she only looked 15 to me..." Wallop. Banned.

I know the "anti" side will trot out those who regularly romp with avatars of 6 and 7yrs old...but again...this is a FANTASY game...and with the recent (though apparently now, over) fad for wings...stick a pair on a child avatar, and you have a pixie. Is pixie sex allowed? Or have we got to have huge, strapping six foot pixies whose wings would never get them off the ground?

In a nutshell...you can't ban sexual ageplay until you can define it. Unless the Lindens change the ENTIRE character generation system so that either;

1. Every avatar is labelled with a nominal age according to it's height
2. You can cut avatars in half and count the rings

Then I'm afraid you can't even judge in SL whether or not an avatar IS a child (not even considering the furry argument). We are back to "I'll know one when I see one"...and that just means we are back to the crux of the whole argument - "That offends me. Ban it."

Mickey McLuhan - yes, I was a bit oversensitive, wasn't I? Because you quoted and then challenged me, I took it that you were disagreeing with a point I hadn't even made - but I see now you were just re-emphasising. We agree. Sorry.

Mmm.. pixie sex is the best! It's magically delicious!

perhaps,

Its interesting that fence sitters are often label rationalists - and they rationalize excuse as to why they haven chosen a side. Happens in Politicas often.

Still I would hope some segment of people on all sides were able to try to consider rational reasoning of the other side

Im not sure if it matters if anyone on this threads mind get changed at all. Since were mainly just talking, or maybe "acting out"

I would love it for the lIndens to put together a Note that includes definitions and explainations that at least look liek they took more than 2 hours to jot down.

I am not interested in reasons why which is what people aregue over.

More interested in whats allowed and whats not - so people dont get banned for being ignorant of the rules.

Wow, if I didn't know better I'd swear you are channeling Rush Limbaugh. I've heard him make the same observation, if in somewhat more derisive form. I've always comsidered myself a pragmatist, I don't sit on the fence, I prefer to lean against it.
I'm with you, we all can argue the vice or virtue of this until we are blue in the face, but in the end it has to be clear what is to be permitted in world so we can all make our choices accordingly. Then we can't complain when made to suffer the consequences of those choices.

Lol - But isnt it people like Rush libaugh who make many moderates nervous about stating their positions on things. For fear of being labeled liberals?


Which I think is stupid - Being a liberal isnt any different than being conservative - People are entilted to their opinions, you just hope they are "rational" (=PppPp) when they form them.

(Im a liberal btw )

Actually he feels Moderates are people who don't have the courage to pick a stance. I guess to him and those of his ilk it's either left or right. I've always considered myself a Moderate, my Conservative friends say I'm a Liberal, and my Liberal friends think I'm too Conservative.

Continuing with massive thread derailing powers-

I think its possible to end up moderate from having both liberal and conervative veiws issue by issue.

For example someone might be very socially liberal , and at the same time very much for a strict intreptation of the constitution.



Back to this thread -

Perhaps its possible to be very much pro freedom, but unable to imagine in any way that virtual dipictions of sex between adults and children belong in Second Life.

I agree with the first point, it basically describes me. On the Second i would add that the behavior in question may havea place if that is what consenting adults wish to engage in, if it is within the limits of any applicable laws or TOs's, but perhaps it should be done in private or in areas designated for such activity.

This blue box could be the perfect starter spot for your SL home or business. Over 4000 traffic. Best of all there's no lag!

IM Raymond Figtree to rent this lovely space, next to a protected Linden thread.

(In other words: Enough on this subject already. No one's mind is going to be changed by any further belaboring of any points. Your opinion matters. It has been noted and ignored by the opposition. Let it rest. Thank you.)

I've never before seen fence sitters labeled as rationalists. But it strikes me that you're using rationalize as a way to avoid the issues. You're implying that every rational argument has an ulterior motive that invalidates it - which is nonsense. Some have ulterior motives, some don't, sometimes those ulterior motives bring the position into question, sometimes the ulterior motives are irrelevant to the validity of the argument.

This is precisely my point. I'm glad that you said this.


I'm also not sure about changing minds, but getting people to think harder and more cogently about this issue does matter.

Actually, I think that at least one mind has been changed, if you go upthread a little.

I think some people have come to a better understanding of the subject and will be a little less likely to scream "OMG TEH Peddalfilezorz!" the next time they happen upon an innocent ageplayer.

I was sarcasticly playing on words, thats all.

duplicate post deleted

Not exactly. I didn't read Robin Linden's remarks to extend to what consenting adults chose to do in private, but rather I interpreted her remarks to mean that public display is what is being prohibited.

I heartily concur with Linden Lab's position. I pretty much don't care what consenting adults do in private, but once they go public, they are fair game for public censure, as well as censor.

Ahh There is a Point Right now No one can Designate an area for such activity because. You can not write about it or make a texture in SL. That is one of the problems I have seen about this and no one as responded to. I can not warn you that there is both sex and underage avatars together. So a possible land owner All I can do is Go Hey there is sex here, and make sure that as a Land owner letting any of the underage groups know that they are welcome to come here and do as they please. I can't tell you that underage sex is happening there, that is the point.

Anyone who knows anything about how things work knows that sex sells. The porn industry has actually driven several Technological advancements, How many non porn DVD's have multi pull angles (and different wording for different languages don't count that wasn't the point of the feature) So I will advertise sex.

Someone will always find something wrong with the internet. Second Life's ideal would be to replace the web as we have it today, I think this is a wonderful idea. But the internet is full of pron, Some of it of the most strange and odd stuff out there. If the net has proven one thing it is that there is someone who is willing to pay for anything and have it be sexual. And has allowed for these groups to get together and know that they are not alone.

I do think that Identity checking needs to be done, this would allow for preventing Underage people on the grid, Help in identifying Grifers, and allow for LL to even have legal evidence that someone should be who they say they are. I do not think that this needs to be Public knowledge, I actually think that if they do anything like that they need to say this is what the information is going to be used for. Possibly even working with a third party to keep the information separated from the accounts unless needed.

Or the source of the server can be opened, allowing for more hosts than just LL, and allowing for Other methods of user registration as is needed by the content owners. I do not think this will kill the main grid, If anything It will solve the constant asset server issues if you can copy at least Any full Permission items if Not Any Copy, Mod Items to the users computer and require uploading from them, in a p2p style system. But honestly that is an other topic but would get LL out of the loop because they could say you don't like our hosting go find someone else here is a list of registered hosts, and who knows there might become a whole grid of kiddy porn sims, but probably not because they would have to create or seriously buy there content.

ooh and I won't be surprised if this thread gets locked soon it is getting to big for LL to ignore, Time to start an other one.

[

There is no need to be explicit in your warning. A simple "Warning! Content might be offensive to some!" or something similar would suffice for most. Those of us who object to child molestation most likely aren't seeking sexual gratification of any sort in an online game, and those who are, aren't likely to complain if they happen to stumble across something grotesque, but rather are likely to move on to something more appealing.