So why are kids on Zindra?

To tell the truth I would be disappointed if there wasn't at least one no holds barred, virtual, multi species orgy going on somewhere though. I do not do the cyber thing but if there is then I will even try to get my own plot of land there. I have always been a people watcher and the more outrageous the better. When I traveled the world I had the opportunity to see quite a few red light districts and I always had as much fun looking at the women as the guys had. Gay pride parades? Love em! People having sex in the open outside a bar? Seen that too! I will always remember seeing a guy dressed as a butterfly with HUGE fake breasts, holding a sign that said "In a world full of catepillars, it takes balls to be a butterfly".

It is going to be a terrible shame if Zindra ends up being plain vanilla main land.

errrrrrrrrrrrr.......... HOW do you untick PG?

My copy of 1.23 has a tick box for PG. I untick it, and yep - about half the search results go away.

Of course this morning I needed to get an AO for my new avatar, so I zoned into a PG zone in a Japanese region, and found myself staring at an add for sex HUD... with a demo poseball in front of it.
- and after walking around for 10 mins, found the place no longer sold the AO I wanted. But at least I found it elsewhere...

Unticking PG actually made search easier... some of the camping / bot spots use mature terms in search, but list as PG... I was able to find things much faster without them, but of course in a few weeks and a few ARs, they'll be back in mature and adult... Its only a temporary reprieve.

Where people are jumping the gun is thinking pedo is only around child avi's or in certian rated zones.

This is utterly stupid. Wouldn't a pedo just go to PG land and look for children, Child avis aren't children anyway.. etc etc bla bla.

As for the decent into banning everything offenive, there has also been a call to ban violence to do with females in this forum, it's been put on the sholders of the bdsm-ers. Again a myth.

Someone also bought up the possibility that furries may actually be about beastiality.

So it is proving an uninformed slide into fear mongering and attempts at censorship or jackbooted thugery if you want.


Are you assuming people haven't said no to pedo?

I don't believe that'll be a threat. It just won't be Calligula 24/7.

While I support the right of ANY adult person to do whatever they like within the rules in SL, I'll admit I'm counter on the issue of child AV's in Zindra. The reason I tend to make this exception is that child AV's are a special case not to be lumped in with other things. A child AV is THE ONLY form an AV can take that has the possibility to get OTHERS AROUND THEM in trouble. I don't think they should be banned from adult content other than sex stuff, but it's not hard to see why others want them off Zindra all together.

The idea of child porn is an abhorrant thing to most people, and so a child AV's presence in the midst of the AO safe zone puts people wanting to openly and freely get their kinks on in a place that's much less than a safe zone. They can choose to temper their kink publicly for a tiny minority, or choose NOT to and deal with the possibility of getting ARed for a bad depiction due to nothing more than proximity and not paying attention. That possibility, and the feeling of having to look over your shoulder all the time, completely diminishes the safe refuge for TOS-compliant kinks that Zindra was intended to be.

Except for inside private mature rated residences, the WHOLE of the mainland, however many tons of sims that is, will likely be a safe zone for child AV's with reguards to random, public exposure to sex (rules and AR are on THEIR side for once). They've gained a LOT. I don't see it as unfair to ask that they be in adult form if they should decide to visit Zindras little corner of SL.

They're more likely to "get people in trouble" on mature mainland than on Zindra. Non-advertised adult activity will remain more common on Mature land simply because the majority of the grid is and will remain mature.

Zindra is and can be no such thing, unless it grows to encompass the majority of the mainland.

I don't believe in plain vanilla mainland.

That's entirely possible. I do get the impression that any non-advertised adult activity will have to be contained in private, and not publicly available.

Under the TOS and new AO rules, not moral crusader rules, it IS essentially that though.. reguardless of size or participation. It could be a 4096m with 10 people on it and still be that.

Yes, I spun out at first too worrying about that, I was confused about real children being let into SL, thinking the Teen grid was merging and ultimatly real life children were able to go to Ursula, which I was wrong about. Then also I was worried that the child avs could try and use their "no sex in front of me" status to mess with others in an adult role.

More like if an adult in an adult or mature zone just says in open chat, "Can you leave now, sex is going to happen" or "Sex is happening you can't be here, please leave." Or mention it in your profile/parcel ad "no child avs", these are pretty simple steps.

I think when individual concepts get judged as "the problem" it's troublesome, from the attitude in the violence thread recently, bdsm-ers could also have to look over their shoulders... and who ever elses kink is sin of the week.

It's the AR vigilantes that will get people in trouble. The people who decide to AR a particular style or belief over an actual ToS crime.

I guess what I am most concerned about is the unwarrented AR's that will happen to people.

Wearing a child AV in Zindra is a great way to avoid getting propositioned for teh sexx0rz

Yes - if the land has clear rules and they are being disobeyed then yes. It would of course be fair to warn them first - accidents do happen



I don't see why it should be. Nudity is and will continue to be permitted on mature sims - are you also arguing that nudity should be assumed acceptable to any mature sim?

Many of the places which will move to Zindra currently have a no nudity policy (at least in the public areas), e.g. most store owners do not want they customers scared off by a naked avatar, so I do not see why nudity and sexual perversity should be assumed the default just because they are permitted on Zindra, any more than they should be on the current mainland. Particularly as the definition of Adult is broader than just sexual activities - on that note although extreme violence is also part of the Adult definition, I don't think that it should be assumed that shooting people is automatically permissible everywhere on Zindra.

Matthew

That's the scene yesterday at Zindra, that I was in, that has helped cause this panic here. That's it. Surely, you can see all the sexual activity going on, no?

Using this reply feature in hopes I won't get a 404 error

Has anyone considered that the new Zindra sims pre-content that is adult, have many hidden things [easter eggs] to find before it is strewn with AC? I have found three hidden cool places with exclusive content. I know Mari is both an avid photographer and a hunter of Linden exclusive items, If you think about it, this is the only time [these gratis two weeks] that Mari will be able to find this. Now get your virtual heads out of the gutter and find those items yourselves :wink: [the preceeding message should be taken in the spirit of adventure and as Vin would say, "Get those assets moving]

Three? I only found the one (the hidden space in that one dam). I'd love to see the others.

Does anyonw know if that "all dogs must wear capes" sign, or the videophone stations are available full perms? I'd love to get my hands on a copy of each.

I'll send lm's to ya so you won't need to go through any Mosh pit

Sweet - even better!

Is it any wonder that prominent land barons are only this week being given the opportunity to push their soon-to-be devalued Mainland sims?


Quite right, it's hopelessly dangerous prospect and it is naive of residents to think that every child av is a 100% nice guy like, say, Marianne for instance. There will be residents who will use this ridiculous fiction of a classification system to cause trouble and there will also be residents who are sufficiently confused to get themselves into trouble.

But I have to disagree that child avs should not be banned from 'Adult' sims. Residents who run child avs are not necessarily nice people just as residents who indulge in sexual or violent shenanigans are not necessarily bad people. It is far too easy for a resident running a child av to get in a snit and use their appearance to make life next to impossible if not downright dangerous for others engaging in adult activity.


On the first point, this isn't about RL children in SL because the non-minor status of the account holder behind a child av will not be relevant in many jurisdictions and fields of public opinion. A simple screenshot of a tich standing in full view of some saucy shenanigans will be enough to get the moral majority champing at the bit.

On the second point, you would be well-advised to keep worrying.

---------------

As for RL children, many do in fact have access to SL because their parents and guardians either do not wish to exclude them from their online activity or it is quite simply not a practical option for them to do so, which is why I have always accepted an apparent need for the classifications of 'Mature' and 'PG'.

The two classifications should have been more rigidly enforced if there had been any serious intent to clear-up confusion about appropriate content and activity in SL, making this new classification of 'Adult' entirely unnecessary. However, it would seem that it was not feasible for the Lindens to enforce the first two classifications because many residents were too selfish, incapable or just plain stupid to regulate their activity according to the very simple choice.

That said, resentment expressed towards child avs in the context of 'Adult' content is very much a side issue, the main point is to clarify the cynical motives for introducing the classification in the first place.

I have seen other photos, from different viewpoints, of that scene, with Mari present, which would *not* be considered PG.

But since there are also Lindens present, what point is there complaining; it's easier to note their hypocrisy for when the issue goes public outside sl and just carry on regardless until then.

Pep (Since this a PG forum non-PG photos can not, of course, be legitimately be posted here to disprove Mari's contention. )

Its interesting to see that the SL Forum people are mostly ok with child avatars in Zindra - while the folks in the xstreet forums are mostly against it.

.

As I see the rules:

- A shop selling half a dozen sex beds amongst 150 other things has to move to Zindra (or an adult flagged private region) if he wants to display the sex beds and include them in the advertising. So why should a child avatar not be allowed to go to this shop to buy his Superman bed from another department?

- A shop selling clothes and shapes and in one corner skins has to move to Zindra (or an adult flagged private region) if he wants to display the skins in all nude glory. So why should a child avatar not be allowed to go to this shop to buy shirts and pants?

If I in my teen shape go there and buy clearly non-adult stuff and someone harrasses me there, he will find himself on the receiving end of an AR.

There I see a big problem with the whole mess. Shops might just move there to avoid any future trouble with LL, you never know what will be called "adult" by LL next week. So rather to put the business at risk, they simply relocate even though they might not even sell *anything* that would need the adult rating.

The adult rating doesn't say "it's all adult stuff here", it says "you CAN have adult stuff here". The rating is to make sure that those who don't want to encounter any adult stuff know that the place might not be a good place to go for them - but if they go there, they don't have a right to get upset later and come crying to LL.

I just read thru 15 pages of rants.....*facepalms then pops a tylenol and heads to bed*...theres always tomorrow....

(Yes, I know better. No excuse. I had a Linden moment.)
Yeah that was obviously my implication, but you know, I'm not sure the position was taken with an *intent* to devalue Adult land by piling extra restrictions on it, thereby preserving some market in Mature. It may have been taken almost without intentionality, just an unconscious "righteous" sense as an owner of Mature land that Adult land must be punitive.