So why are kids on Zindra?

This lovely person read some of this thread and still feels that Zindra is just for Adult Content. And Linden Lab is not making any effort to clear this up.

Only the people that dress as child avatars or deal with children RPers in SL took the time to research the TOS and CS to find some gray area so they can continue their antics in Zindra. These are the same types that continuously check their local laws around child porn and indecency to make sure they aren't breaking the law. I am amazed that people have these laws memorized and can recite them anytime. Most people do not have to make sure they are not breaking the law. Common decency prevails and that keeps them on the right side of the law.

We do not need child avatars in the Adult Continent of Zindra. As Mari pointed out - a small handful of people aware of two being there for a short period of time are slightly outraged - and there was no content there at the time. If it happens again in July after we all move in - THIS WILL NOT END WELL.

I'm not the only one dancing. But, not everybody wants to dance. Surely, there is no one opinion. Regardless of community. (^_^)

keep up the good work

You know, I really don't consider it work. But thanks for the pat on the back.

Yeah, I'm dating him.

what about the childern in RL that are effected by child avis in an adult sim wakening somthing in a sick person that might not have been awoken if it wasnt for child AVI"s in dirrect or close contact with sexual content in adult regions. Its Not a faw streatch to think there are sick people in SL that know they are and stay away from places where child avi;s might be, but when you allow child avis into a place they shouldnt be (ADULT regions) your putting RL children at risk.

Pedo's are into kids, not into adults playing kids. Some interesting reading from professionals instead from some "but we have to protect the kids!" hysterics:

This is now what, 1200+ posts, 20,000+ views, and 85 pages.

I had kept up through the first 28 pages, but then real life (father's day, in my case) caught up. So please forgive me if any of this is repetitive. If there's any sane way to keep up with responses, I shall endeavour to do so.

Looking at all this, as much as I very much believe that Marianne and most others are 110% harmless in their actions, the 'child avatar / extreme area' boundary isn't a good one to push.

Rights 'fought for' or to be 'gained':

~ Representing oneself as a kid in an area generally understood to be extreme. Even if that characterisation isn't entirely accurate (say it's a 'safe zone' or 'hub' or whatever, near said extreme land)

Potential consequences:

~ Incredibly bad publicity, crazed congressmen taking up causes, foreign lawsuits, blocked grid access by country, ridiculous new laws.

* * * * *

To put it in perspective, the United States can't even ratify the Equal Rights Amendment put in place to balance rights for women *to this day*, and unlike prevailing live and let live internet culture, most of the country is sternly against same sex marriage. To the point of passing Proposition 8 even in *California*. This is a country which is downright litigious and reactionary when it comes to The Family.

There's a lot to be said for rights. I get that. Society however is a balance: the ultimate expression of rights is not anarchy, or do~anything~you~want~to. That's the fastest course to have all our rights (along with whatever else neighbours can grab) be taken away from 99% of us.

So it comes down to what rights are worth fighting for, and how.

Something like gay marriage, I know many won't agree with this statement, but I think it's something worth fighting for. I'm not gay, but I know what love is. And it's not a big stretch to imagine what it's like, to not be able to marry the person you love. I think that's a battle worth fighting for, peacefully.

This child avatar and Zindra thing... it's just not worth it.

Maybe it does fall under freedom of expression, maybe some august council of people wiser than myself might draw the lines more loosely than I would.

But I'm just not seeing wisdom in pressing *this* particular boundary. The entire grid population faces the consequences of what happens on a hotbutton issue like this; it has before and there's plenty of precedent regarding how ugly it can get.

* * * * *

This kind of thing is like many societal rules, and a basic comparison might be a speed limit law.

Once upon a time, I did work on Ford and GM vehicle platforms. Ever notice how most cars suddenly lose power at 100mph and won't go faster? On just a few vehicle types, that's a feature I added and tested personally. And you better believe, it meant that I had to go 100mph to test it, under a variety of conditions. Accidentally stall an engine at 100mph and suddenly there's no power steering or power brakes ~ ridiculously high consequence especially for an inexperienced driver. Though of course, allowing them to exceed their cheap tire ratings had even higher consequence.

Needless to say, I'm professionally aware of what happens at higher speeds. But on the highway, if the speed limit is 70, I have to do 70 just like everyone else. Going faster isn't a boundary worth pushing ~ why? To get to Vegas five minutes sooner, versus horrific death on the highway? It's *just* not worth pushing it, and if I do find myself over the speed limit the responsibility is completely mine. Regardless of my intent, regardless if I am safer at 100 than the guy next to me is, while doing 65.

* * * * *

Right now, access is allowed. I can clearly see the argument: if you aren't doing anything bad, there's nothing to be said. I have nothing against kid avatars inherently ~ I used to have one myself, and I skated most of the RFL 2006 track with it. They are great for harmless pranks, goofing off or a good laugh. But I'd never appear that way on Zindra (presuming I'd ever be over there anyway).

Likewise, I've driven crazy fast professionally without trouble. But taking such risks around a 35mph zone or an extreme content zone are no longer just personal consquences; they can affect everyone.

Someday we may live in a world with personal speed limits and a way to detect intent on the internet.

But until then, this isn't a dynamite monkey worth taunting. Even if the rules say it's okay.

* * * * *

Hopefully everyone knows that I do not like to see anyone attacked or put on trial in forums or blogs. That's just plain evil, and a very common mob scene these days.

As such I'm going to largely bow out of this thread unless personally questioned about stuff. Because beyond a post or two, continued posting here has the net effect of pointlessly giving Marianne a very bad time. And that's not right.

This is not about saving kids. it is about people pretending to be kids, wearing child avatars and going to the Adult Continent of Zindra.

what about the childern in RL that are effected by child avis in an adult sim wakening somthing in a sick person that might not have been awoken if it wasnt for child AVI"s in dirrect or close contact with sexual content in adult regions. Its Not a faw streatch to think there are sick people in SL that know they are and stay away from places where child avi;s might be, but when you allow child avis into a place they shouldnt be (ADULT regions) your putting RL children at risk.

Well its about RL kids in the sense of answering the burning question: Why would anyone want to RP as a small child in a Adult Content designated area?

You still diddnt learned from the last discussion.

If you give pll like Lias and followers feedback, you also give them a platform.
We saw in the last 2 discussions, that theres simply no point to raise arguments here since they all fell on deaf ears.

If you dosent anwser to the nonsense, the whole thing would be done already.

Just refuse to feed her.

Becouse LL has invited everyone including child av using adults to check out zindra before it gets filled with content and once it gets filled to RP violent or horror scenes that are only alowed in private parcels in adult rated regions

With your hatefull reasoning child avatars living there will have to change to an adult av at their own homes.

dain this is a forum discussion - not an argument (to most). And no one here is deaf. We hear each other - and we do not agree. That happens in public forums and that is ok. Noone on any side of the issue is going to convince anyone to change sides. But we will talk about it anyway.
And yes, if just ignored the issue it would be done already. Until the next kid AV walks into Adult Zindra.
And the only follower I have is my pug Bingo.

Originally Posted by Angel Leviathan
There has been some thoughtful debate on both sides of the issue and it would be nice if we can all remain at least somewhat civil.


... says somebody who refuses to discuss this topic inworld and called me names.

You still diddnt learned from the last discussion.

If you give pll like Lias and followers feedback, you also give them a platform.
We saw in the last 2 discussions, that theres simply no point to raise arguments here since they all fell on deaf ears.

If you dosent anwser to the nonsense, the whole thing would be done already.

Just refuse to feed her.

Lias, did you write what I have quoted in my sig line? I tried to ask you before and you wouldn't answer, I'd love to know.

Ian, the cursing and name calling will not be rewarded with anything from me. Have a good night.

Lias, did you write what I have quoted in my sig line? I tried to ask you before and you wouldn't answer, I'd love to know.

Needless to say - folks that believe in something never see their actions to achieve it as wrong.

Look back at Ian's posts - your going to have to respect the fact that I have no desire to communicate anything to him - directly or through you. Thanks.

We know first hand 'first they came for' We are being forceably corralled into Zindra.