Gorean is it all negative?

To all Police officers in and around the Montreal area. If you should ever see me being stuffed into a van, please save me. Even if you think that my clothes are sexy, I'm not that kinky. Help me.

Maybe I should post this in the Anya thread...

Good point - I'm pretty sure most of the cops I know would have gotten some back up there. Imagine if they just wandered off and something bad happened to the woman. God forbid, but yeesh!! The lawsuits, bad press, not to mention the personal guilt.

To all Police officers in and around the Montreal area: If you should see me stuffing Isabeau into a van, don't worry, it's all ok. Trust me...we're, um, roleplaying! That's it. Just wander off and go have a donut. Or a croissant, being as it's Montreal. Nothing to see over here.

(Dang it! Get in the van! Where's my chloroform soaked rag?)

Yes, this type of situation really disturbs me. Not the roleplaying, but the berating of the police officer. I want the police to help me, not look over and think "dark deserted alley, skimpy clothing, whimpering crying woman with something stuffed into her mouth, large man shoving her into van, now fondling her exposed breast . . . right, sex play . . *whistles and walks off*"

I have to agree..what could they possibly think he should have done?

"Oh, pardon me for interupting, is this a real situation or are you guys just rping? Ok, just rping then? Carry on."

Would calling the station, or better yet, visiting in person ahead of time so the cops would have some idea what was going on perhaps been a good idea?

It's in the glove compartment behind the half-eaten fois-gras sandwich (being as it's Montreal). Quick! For god's sake do I have to do everything? Ow! You're kneeling on my foot. Merde, there's a cop over there. Right there, behind the bushes, can't you see him? Is that a croissant in his hand? What's he doing? Ewww!

That also scares me. I'd really hate to tell the police "I'll be play-acting a kidnapping and rape, please don't help me." Then, in the unlikely event that they agree to not get involved, having something else occur that causes the police to think that "she was asking for it, it must be role-play" or anything like that if anything real actually happened. *shudders (especially if they see me and they think that I am the one that called them off, when it wasn't me but someone that vaguely looks like me - as in I'm not exactly into this in real life situations so . . .)*

It occurs to me that the simpler solution might have been to stage the whole thing somewhere less populated, p'raps...

Then again, I've always preferred a "cabin in the woods and unfortunate hiker" scenario to the old van-abduction routine. Park rangers are generally more cool about kinky goings-on, especially if the cabin's rented by a couple. *whistles and wanders out of thread*

That's where I'm unsure about the etiquette. You don't want to have anyone able to kidnap someone by just making sure they tell the cops everything is okay first.

I actually lol'ed. Did I try to kidnap you at some point in SL? This is exactly how one of my awful attempts at rp goes. The last time I rp'ed a kidnapping I asked my victim if she wanted some microwave popcorn before I tortured the secret location of the batcave out of her. Did I ever tell you about the time I pretended to be an exchange student from the Haidas to the Sioux on vacation in Tombstone? I was just doing it to get away from my overbearing parents for a semester. I'm glad they lifted my ban.

It's posts like this that make you one of my favorite people here in the forums!

I think that if anyone does role-play in public they have to be prepared to have it taken seriously. I'm sure the risk of that adds to the spice, but man ... depending on the scenario, one could get into real trouble with other citizens who don't understand and rush to the rescue.

In this case, I would hope the police officer detained the couple long enough to do a background check on the guy and run the plate of their car, at least.

Yeah - I'm with Lexxi on this one. There's no way to set this up with the cops that they would reasonably agree to. If they witness something that looks even remotely like a kidnapping, they are going to get involved no matter what.

I think if someone really wants to do this, they have to 1) hope they don't get caught and if that fails, 2) explain things to the cops and either reschedule or start over. They need to have some flexibility in their RL RP and be ready for a do-over if things go sideways on them. I don't want cops making the judgment call that it's just some kinky rp and not a real kidnapping. It's just not something you can mess around with as a cop.

lol Naw, then real criminals would do it to...

"Hi, I will be RPing a hold up at the market on the corner of Nit and Wit, could you please be sure to notify all police in that area so they dont interupt me? You can? Thanks!"

Yeah the cops had to do something. If it hadn't been roleplay .. the consequences are terrible.

Maybe dropping all charges after taking them in to find out what really was going on. But definitely not just walking the other way.

Here I believe the police would agree. Then post several police officiers in the vicinity

I'm guessing proper procedure would be to get a few more cops for back up, separate the two of them, get some ID on both and run the plates on the van, then interview them away from each other so one can't influence what the other is saying. If everything checks out, let them go about their business maybe with an admonition to KTSO. (knock that s--- off). No more public rape-play - go home. I'm not sure there's a crime in playacting a crime other than maybe a disturbing the peace citation or some minor catch-all misdemeanor like offenses in public or something. If someone acts like an a-hole, though, the cops are bound to find something to cite them for.



Wouldn't that be awesome? "Sure, no problem...just go ahead and do your thing! (attn, all units in the vicinity of the liquor store on the corner of..."

I'd really hate to be involved in something like this and the woman doesn't say "it's roleplay, really."

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Oh, and they might want to get the word out by means other than the normal police radio. Never know who might be listening.

Actually - the police have no duty to intervene or protect anyone. http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html

There is a number of case law in which court cases have determined that the city has no duty to protect their citizens.

Far be it for me to dismiss the veracity of this source out of hand for being right wing propaganda. I'm sure "firearms and liberty" has a BBC-like reputation for fairness.

Even if there were no law stating it, I *highly* doubt you will find an actual police officer who doesn't have a sense of duty to protect those who are in apparent danger.

Please cite one which holds that a police officer should not intervene when he sees a potential rape and kidnapping taking place while he is on duty simply because he believes there is a possibility that it could be RP.

I think you might be accidentally taking those cases out of context.

The source has nothing to do it. Feel free to look up ANY of the cases mentioned.

They've all been to the supreme court and ruled that you cannot hold any law enforcement agencies responsible for protecting you. Sure - they can act and usally do, but they are not required by law to and suffer no consequences if they don't.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

"WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation"

"1) Richard W. Stevens. 1999. Dial 911 and Die. Hartford, Wisconsin: Mazel Freedom Press.
(2) Barillari v. City of Milwaukee, 533 N.W.2d 759 (Wis. 1995).
(3) Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982). "there is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen."
(4) DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, 489 U.S. 189 (1989).
(5) Ford v. Town of Grafton, 693 N.E.2d 1047 (Mass. App. 199.
(6) Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. 1981)."...a government and its agencies are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981)

(7) Riss v. New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579,293 N.Y.S.2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 806 (195. "What makes the City's position particularly difficult to understand is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of NY which now denies all responsibility to her."

( Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. "Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
1989)

I think the source has a lot to do with the context. But regardless ---

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You are saying, in essence that they don't HAVE to protect citizens. Ok.

I am saying that they WILL ATTEMPT TO protect citizens.

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I don't remember saying anything about legal consequences in my post you quoted.

Would you not consider a woman raped, kidnapped and potentially murdered "terrible consequences"?

But... but... Torvaldsland is a very nice place, I'm sure. I'm pretty sure I went to a class there once, actually. But I'm not going anywhere in Gor unveiled. It rather defeats the purpose, for me. A sim that allows Free Women to wander outside the house immodestly dressed -- whether because they're following Northern cultural standards or because they're just ignoring Southern cultural standards, either way, is not the sim for me. There's a whole real life and the rest of SL if I want to go around on display for any passerby. *g*

Of course it would be terrible consequence. But, like I said - the law defines that Police do not have to act if they see a crime in progress and it is not their duty to protect the public. They will of course, BUT, as you stated in your post I originally quoted - they don't have to do something about it. I'm not trying to argue with you - I'm pointing out that a false misconception is that the police are there for protection.

And the fact of the matter is that Police aren't.

I cant help but read your posts as promoting a NRA style we need guns to protect ourselves agenda.

Because you seem to be arguing it here.

Perhaps you aren't - it really doesn't matter.

I am positive that police are not going to stand by and watch women raped and kidnapped, its simply not going to happen.