Save SL: Reduce Your Inventory!

Let me try to summarize suggestions to alleviate asset server problems.


1) Reducing your inventory helps, even when it doesn't eliminate the item in question from LL's memory.

2) Boxing or putting items in notecards helps reduce your inventory. It doesn't eliminate the items from SL's server -- actually, it ADDs a new item, the box or notecard. Still, reducing the inventory helps! And if you eliminate 1000 inventory items by adding only 10 boxes, you've probably improved things. (Is boxing safe? We don't reallyknow; there are reports that you can lose your items.)

3) Deleting textures, sounds, and animations from your inventory doesn't necessarily eliminate the item from LL's memory. But, it does reduce your inventory, which is good.

4) Deleting OBJECTS from your inventory does delete additional information from the asset servers. So, this is in some ways twice as good as just deleting a line in your inventory.

5) Periodically EMPTY THE TRASH!

If any of these statements are factually incorrect, please pipe up! And if I've missed any important ones (other than "more than 5000 objects is unnecessary", please let us know. Maybe we can start a new thread with good advice and less drama.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I've heard LL say that multiple copies of an object don't create multiple copies of the object on the asset server. Yes, it'd have to create some sort of context data for each copy (owner, acquired date, script states, etc) but I don't think it creates a whole new object on the asset server.



I understand what you're saying but don't think I buy it. Why would the sim care about what I had idle in my inventory? Maybe I'm missing something here but don't get a sim would care about an object unless it was attached or rezzed..

Are you sure they weren't talking about textures, animations, and sounds? If not, what happens if you modify the object? Does that create a new object entry?

The rules may be different for modifiable vs. no-mod objects.

In any case, assuming what you say is correct, deleting an object still does delete the context information from the asset server -- more so than simply deleting an inventory entry (e.g., for a texture). I'll adjust my list above to take that into account.

If anyone can post a link to a Linden post that covers this, please do.
If you understand the technical issues and can comment with authority, please do.

Thanks

no .. if you delete unique items the cleaner program will broom the asset server.

I think it only is a new object if you modify it. If its unmodified its the same entry. Once you modify it is basically a new item Asset server wise.

Thus if the asset server goofs - Like a piece of no-mod clothing fails, it fails for everyone who owns it, until its repaired. Which has happened to me.

Uh.. Maybe?


I'd say creating a new anything makes a new asset. I was just talking about copies of an object.


Well, Kelly Linden sorta implies it here..

/139/62/137077/1.html

Seems to say that objects (prim sets) that are not in-world are ref counted and garbage collected when the count hits zero. If every copy made a new asset, why bother with ref counting and GC?

I think it still takes space on the asset server -- for script states, attachment location, etc. Like I said, "not *quite* true".

Deleting objects deletes information from your inventory.
It also deletes additional information from the asset servers over and above what it deletes from you inventory. That additional information is often considerably more data than an inventory line.

I'll have to re-investigate whether deleted textures really do go away. It's a trivial test, but takes a long time if the garbage collector isn't fast.

If every copy of the texture that exists in every users inventory and every rezzed version in world has been deleted, how the heck can you test it?

Thats what the cleaner does it looks for items that are in the database but no longer in use by anyone or anything, and then it poofs them.

If every copy of the texture that exists in every users inventory and every rezzed version in world has been deleted, how the heck can you test it?

Thats what the cleaner does it looks for items that are in the database but no longer in use by anyone or anything, and then it poofs them.

I think this is what Zaphod said earlier... I'll use an analogy. Tell me if I'm wrong.

There is a person on the planet named Joe Bob. I have a Rolodex, and in it, a card with his information. Lots and lots of people have cards for Joe Bob. There's still only one Joe Bob. If Joe Bob changes clothes, I have to add a new card to my Rolodex for him. If I tear up my card, Joe Bob doesn't die. Thousands of other people still have cards for Joe Bob. If, I suppose, everyone tore up their Rolodex cards for Joe Bob, we could kill him and no one would notice.

The fewer Rolodex cards that I have, the smaller my actual Rolodex is, and I can stuff it into my purse rather than load it into my pickup truck every time I want to cross town.

Is this basically right?

Meade, modifying an existing object isn't what I'd call creating a new object. The object's key doesn't change, for example.

However, it makes sense that there's an abstract object as Collette says, and if you modify an object, you get a new abstract object. This would save a lot of server space for things like popular prim hair!

I explained that above. You use llSetTexture and pass the texture's key, which you've kept in a text file on your PC for a month, hidden away in an encrypted data file, so LL can't possibly know it's there.

This is how its been described in the past. Even by a Linden when they explained their cleaner program was being a bit too aggressive.

In your example basically the cleaner program would be the hit man that kills Joe Bob to keep a check on unneeded population.

Right, it's called garbage collection.

The question is whether it happens for textures.

I missed that above. I dont know enough about scripting to know if that makes a difference.

However for the cleaner program to work I do know every single version of an item everywhere in Second Life needs to be deleted for some length of time first.

Including deleting it from trash and lost and found. And all rezzed versions.


(having trouble keeping up with the discussion getting a huge amount of server errors)

I'm tempted to bet you that it does. Or that it 'sorta' does.

Objects that are rezzed, either attached or otherwise in-world, are different than ones in inventory. IIRC, the UUID of an in-world object changes even on sim crossings..

Sorry, this sub-thread is *almost* as interesting as whether an av should have more than 5K entries. I think my summary list of suggestions is the important part of my contribution, and the minor details I'm arguing here don't matter much (and don't affect the list much either).

Are there any additions or corrections to that list?

Thanks!

Why wouldn't it? If I have a skirt in my inventory that happens to be very popular, and lots of other people have the same exact skirt, or rather, pointer, to that skirt, in their inventories, if I change, say, the length or texture of it, it doesn't change every body else's skirt. It only changes mine. That would mean that I have created a whole NEW skirt in the server. It stands to reason that the key would change somewhat.

Huh? Many of the points in your list apply directly to the subject we've been commenting on back and forth.

If say, I'm right about how the cleaner program works, then your list isn't right.

Every item gets a KEY when its rezzed. If you mod the item that key does not change. I think Lear is equating that Object Key with the asset server entry - which isn't necessarily true.

Which item is incorrect?

Thanks,
Jeff

We dont know this. If your understanding is right then yes. If mine is then the first part of your statement is incorrect.



We don't really know this either. If the Object has a unique entry then yes.


-----See, some of this depends on the side discussion.

Actually, we do know that under most circumstances, it doesn't delete it. However, I'd added the word "necessarily" to be more accurate.


I believe that we *do* know this, because each individual object has information -- the context info Meade mentioned above -- that can't be stored along with the abstract object because it's specific to your copy of the object. For example, its key and its script states. Furthermore, that info can't be in your inventory, because the object itself might not be in your inventory (e.g., no-xfer object).

I've only been here 11 days so I take what I can get my hand on, but I do also cut down on duals and other things. Now I would be more effective if my suggestion about a Creator Search for the items in the inventory are added into SL.

I have 14k+ stuff. But that's because I'm new. I'm sure it will shrink eventually once I get rid of the "Free" boxes with 1000 of stuff.

I must admit, the temptation to fully utilize a 'magic bag' inventory is certainly understandable.