SL5B - No Kid Avatars, please!

I'm totally gobsmacked by this.

There's two separate things here
1) RL children involved in sex - be it in person or digitally
2) Adults involved in digital representations of child sex

There is no way of knowing if any of the avatars that you mention are actually children in RL.
The odds of that are slim, I think.
That being said, it's still a big issue.


If you have even once (never mind three times) observed a child avatar involved in sex activities in your own land or in a public place, then an AR is not so much a no-brainer as a duty.


A parent does not have to of the human species in order to protect its young fiercely. Even in the animal kingdom, adults will defend the offspring of others.
I think that even representations of child sex are totally unacceptable, regardless of the fine print of any laws that might be in force in any jurisdiction.
For myself, I would prefer to be considered a snooper/voyeur rather than not AR an incidence of child sex representation in a location where I had no business to be camming into.

Most people, myself included, would consider someone who would cam into and AR Mature activity/content in a PG sim as an obnoxious thought policeman.
Representation of child sex crosses a line that any right-thinking person would not cross.

Check yourself.

I really do not see why an adult would want to play a chile anyway.
However, I have heard adults play babies for couples...
It's still rather strange IMHO<------- plese don't flame me, it's only my opinion.

but, I wear a wolf avatar so who am I to judge.

It's called education not hiding it.

Rather than try to hide it, come out and inform. Otherwise it looks like someone has something to hide.

Hell, to play a child on SL can be used to heal after being abused. Similar to the way post traumatic stress is treated in places using digital simulations.

SL offers tools where you can get those that step out of line dealt with a lot faster than in the physical world. In fact it can be locked down to the point that no digital predators can enter a sim.




Wait... wtf...

You see it happen, you went looking for it. And didn't do anything about it.

Isn't that like seeing someone spanking the monkey in the bushes at a school, and just not reporting it so you don't get involved?

You want the company to do this and that, but you can't even be bothered to stand up and file an abuse report about it happening.

You claim LL should be responsible for getting it off the grid and yet... you're not responsible enough to stand up and say "hey this happened, can you take appropriate actions"

No wonder you want others to do it for you.

Let's just be clear: every mention in this thread about sexual ageplay is not germane to the topic of the thread. This isn't any attempt to stifle that discussion or "police the thread" or anything like that: everyone should of course post whatever they like. It's just that seeing child avatars in-world should remind one of sexual ageplay exactly as much as seeing any child in real life should trigger thoughts of child molestation. In either case, one experiencing such thoughts needs to remove themselves from the situation and seek help.

I tend to agree with this. I hear a lot of people talking about how it should be OK because no "real kids" are involved; but, I can't seem to get around the fact that the kind of person who gets off on watching fake kiddy porn is the same kind of person that would get off on watching real kiddy porn. It seems pretty common-sense to me. I don't know if watching depictions of the stuff really encourages people to take things to RL; but whether it does or doesn't, pedo-ness is still just disturbing.

I was pulled up on the "right-thinking" bit.

It was a bad choice of words in hindsight. That phrase is loaded with images of bible-thumping fundamentalism. I didn't mean it in that way, but ..... stuff happens


I'll say this about my RL. I have children. Feeling your own flesh and blood grow and then bringing them into the world changes things utterly. It's not a theory any more. The impact can not be explained. It can really only be experienced.
This makes me a fundamentalist where children are concerned.
I do believe that fundamentalism is normally the preserve of the ignorant and the intellectual/moral/spiritual coward. Your bible-thumper is as bad as your ayatollah.

I'm very laid back. I see shades of grey to a fault. I see shades of grey even to the extent that I recognise that a normal adult can have a flash of recognition of sexuality in a child.
Where grey turns to black is in any pursuance of that reaction.

I realise that the extreme fundamentalism of my reaction isn't intellectually based. It's something elemental that was triggered by my first child.
Intellectually, one might argue that imagining sex with a child or looking at cartoonish depictions of child sex doesn't actually hurt any child. I just don't see it that way.

The children thing goes right to the heart of us. I don't think that it's 'a la carte' morality or intellectualism.

You have a lot to learn about reality Mort.

When you AR someone, you do not know what the outcome will be and the way this game is set up leaves you very much open for not only for retaliation, but for you to be a witness in some SICK sex crime courtcase or when a pervert counter sues LL and I wouldn't trust that the operators are together enough to have the evidence handy. It's just too flakey. Sorry but true.

IF LL hasn't cared enough to put obstacles in the path of odd people, like a paid account, alts linked to a master account and proper identity and age verification, or make reports useful and immediate, and was more secure, then why should I get involved in some haphazard system where I would have to be a witness against some unknown, messed up person as LL stands there will no evidence saying "we are just service provider....like the phone company"

Forget it.


Just wait till some poor fool AR's the wrong person they see doing things while visually browsing a sim and ends up being sued as an Internet Peeper. Or wait till when some kid turning off camera constraints sees some bad sex stuff and tell the parents who sue. You think the law is going to care that that kid got in with a fake age and identity? Thats so hopeless. SL should allow privacy, because there is no telling what age people are, who might me using the camera to move around. It's just pinheaded.

Ok, you refuse to put your money where your mouth is. If what you saw was so disturbing, I would think you would welcome the chance to testify against the people.

If you had cared enough to protect these children, you would have AR'd them.

But wait, where was the evidence that they were child AV's? Just because they were short? Or did you read profiles? Did you listen in on open chat with the AV's claiming to be kids?

A sign you've played Second Life and got too caught up with it's politics is when you're watching television and you see commercial where a young blond girl of the age 6 or so sticks out her tongue and first the thing you think is there going to be lot of upset Residents shocked that they allowed that actress to do something that suggestive, then you realize it's television not Second Life.
I confess this was passing thought I had.
I am not very sexual person these days here or in real life but because of certain people sexualized literally
everything here.
This is why I quit wearing my child avatar.
I just got sick of it.
There is nothing wrong with Sex if that makes SL fun for you but sometimes I literally feel like I need to wear a tinfoil hat cause it just isn't something I want in my reality.

How are you open for retaliation, since unless you tell a person you filled an abuse report they have no idea who filed it.

The abuse report includes screen shots and that often includes chat logs if you hit the little button to pop up the window.

You don't know the outcome of reporting someone in the physical world for standing in the bushes at a school.

But you'd be afraid to say anything about that too, because it's not your responsibility to report it?

As for going to court as a witness, I'd do it in a heart beat. Because I'm responsible enough to do it.

By not reporting them, they don't know about them. They don't get monitored or dealt with, and can go on to take it from digital to physical... so somewhere there may be a child that was abused because you were not responsible enough to report what you saw.



What obstacles can they put up Rebecca?

Paid accounts? What's 10 bucks a month... a couple meals at a fast food joint.

Alts linked to a master account? Create separate master accounts

Identity and age verification? Identity theft is rampart, and they are working on the systems to do what they can.

Reports are as useful as the data put in them. You put the right topic in and include all the data that you can and they can be damn fast on responding. But that requires you to put effort into it. And at no point does a person know who sent the reports...

I am not interested in sharing in more information that LL doesn't have they already have my credit number, real name and address....in this day and age that all they need if they really want to find out more they can do it themselves.

Chris you haven't been reading properly.

Trust me they were child Avatars who where involved in sex with adult avatars or other child avatars and/or Unicorns or Ponies.

And I TP'ed out of my own house and NO I didn't AR. I tried to get names and put on ban lists etc. that was all, but no way am I getting involved with enforcing in that quagmire.

If they really were child AV's I guess you will have to look yourself in the mirror each day knowing you didn't do all you could do to stop the lowest common degenerates from preying upon the innocent youth of this nation. I hope you can sleep at night.

Society expects us all to do our part.

I understand. With LL they just can't be trusted. Already all of our personal data got out once. It's a catch-22

UGH.

Denseness

/me looks at the news reports about banks, social security, irs, and other 'trusted' organizations and the data breaches that happen there...


It happens, best to be told up front and take appropriate actions both yourself and the ones with the breach.

LOL

nvm Mort, this is just too difficult for you.

Well, that is wonderful - thank you for sharing. It has no possible influence on anyone else in the universe, but never mind eh, expression is a wonderful thing is it not?

on your part.

By not reporting it, and leaving you basically saw someone doing something inappropriate, grabbed your kids and left... leaving them in the park with all the other children, and didn't call the cops.

You didn't care to do so.

Which is fine - I wouldn't either. It would just have been a few people doing nothing to harm anyone else, certainly not children.

We are suppose to be all adults here and responsible for ourselves.
Majority of residents spend 1000 usd a year to Second Life.
Why should we on top of paying all that we do also be in charge of doing LL's jobs and enforcement of rules?
I don't know personally even how to use the AR thing right and a lot could go wrong.....
Personally I have never ever seen anything like that here and I hope I don't but it isn't my job to police others behaviors.
I would ban and mute but it could easily be turned into something where its a I said/they said thing too.
I don't think the majority of the kids are involved in that here, I know I am not and I am biggest kid inside and out regardless of my avatar I wear you will ever met but I am a Adult.
I could see people with very sick sense of humor intentionally setting up others this way and saying they were involved when they are as way to make problems for people though.
I just hope that doesn't become the new grieving activity.
That not the point of post it that group of people who enjoy all the good that goes with being child, and creativity be blocked when they have been long time contributors because of paranoid, distorted, sexualized view of them.

If you saw your neighbor molesting a child would you call the police or would you say "I pay my taxes, it isn't my job to enforce the law."?

Rebecca is big on "society doing the right thing" but she doesn't live up to her own standard. She thinks these people were doing something that is wrong according to her viewpoint, she wants the government (LL in this case) to do something about it, but she doesn't have the guts to take action on her own.

Holding a person to the standard they want others to be held to is only fair.

Indeed we are responsible for ourselves, but we still report crimes when they happen.

We don't ignore the guy breaking into the neighbors house, we don't ignore the guy trying to peddle drugs at a school, we don't ignore the man standing in the bushes watching the children...

Reports are done through the help menu.

It can (and is recommended) include a screen shot of what is going on. You can fill out all the information you can think of for that incident so LL can act upon it

The screenshot is done by the software, so there is no way to fake it (which the support tools in most other digital worlds lacks, so screen shots are not taken into evidence)

Yes I would call the police and report it. Or do something to help but I also know
bad things could possibly happen if I did no I wouldn't.
Yet if it was my computer and I had it on my computer and I had nothing to do with how would I know that the police wouldn't take me away to jail for having it on my computer in first place?
In that case no I wouldn't report it if it meant I was going to land in jail.
I was abused as child and I went to Police for help.
I know how well that worked out.
Nothing happen. No one believed me. I was one who end up being humiliated and punished.
I don't want to re-experience this in my adult life.
When I am here I don't want any of that or painful stuff to be a part of my reality or imagination.
I don't want to give this any more time in my mind any more.