SL5B - No Kid Avatars, please!

I say.... Be there.

Don't be invisible.

Don't get swept under the carpet.

Don't submit to the whims of a paranoid few.

Hold on to your identity and fearlessly express it.

We don't need to show up en masse toting "Boogerheads" signs. But we should be present and active in the crowd. Mingling with the others there, regardless of size, shape, or makeup. Respond to negativity with positivity. I'm not saying we should overtly try to get people to understand or accept us. That won't happen. But, let them know we're here, we're following the TOS, and we are as "real" as anything else in this little world here. Most of all, don't be crybabies (no pun intended). (^_^)

I WILL find some time to be there myself. I WILL NOT be using my adult alt shape. I WILL mingle and react to the people around me as I always have. My existence in SL has been fully TOS complaint. I will NOT go into hiding just because of a public event that is shoving people I associate with to the side. Pushing back is not necessary. Standing your ground and showing that you are more than an "account" will get a message across. (^_^)

And, sorry if this makes me unpopular. I will not support or attend the kid-build SL5B side-events. I view those arrangements as a sign of "giving up" and falling into the same pit of secrecy that exists in the sexual age play community. For those of you who are against being tied together with that group, you're not helping yourself by enabling the decision makers in their own agenda. In my point of view, it's a way of letting "them" win. If we really want kid AVs to be seen in a positive light we have to be sure to be seen in the first place. A side event will not only add to the invisibility, but will also let the existing hearsay and conjecture continue. (=_=)y

Hmm. Well, I made a post in my blog about this... the first one in about three quarters of a year. I guess I really do have some strong feelings about this one.

Thanks for that, Ann. I'll see if I can get some links to and from other blogs. Negative publicity, here we come!

Cool stuff. I finally added something to my blog about this whole mess as well.

Um, no, it doesn't.

That article specifically says:

SL hardly meets the 'virtually indistinguishable' test.

Furthermore, if you go on to read that recent decision cited in the references at the bottom of the Wikipedia page (U.S. v Williams at http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/06-694.pdf), you'll see

(Aside: I've taken this out of context. While the principle generalizes, the decision is concerned with a very specific case, having to do with promoting. In particular, as I understand this law, it would still be illegal to promote virtual images of child sex as child pornography, even if you know that the images themselves aren't illegal.)

Now the use of the term 'obscene' there confuses people. The Wikipedia article clarifies a little where it says:

The legal definition of obscene, which is really the Miller test, is very different from the lay definition. I think it's impossible to generalize about it with regard to SL, because it's very dependent on the specific instance, plus the whole 'community standard' part isn't really meaningful in the day of the global internet. I suggest reading the Wikipedia article on the Miller test, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test, paying attention to the paragraph near the bottom beginning "In practice ...." But if you do think that a specific image involving child sex in SL is obscene under this test, you should at least ask yourself whether would still be obscene if the avs involved were all adult. If your answer is yes, then you're saying that the image of adult avs is also illegal, but if the answer is no, you need to be prepared to explain why one passes and the other fails the Miller test.

Sexual predators probably would not come to SL to find real life victims. They might come to SL to experience seeing their fantasies acted out and to network with others who have similar impulses.

It seems to me especially cruel if grown-up victims of child molestation, who are in SL to role play happy childhoods, have to deal with people who want to role play molestation.

Well first of all, we plan both. Being visible at the official celebrations AND doing our own version. And this is not "giving up" - we don't go into a silent corner and pout or isolate ourselfs. It is exactly the opposite, our event will be open for everyone, and we actually expect quite a lot of people from outside the kids community to show up. Our promotion and advertising will be visible at many places in-world and on 3rd party listings, our events will cater not only to kids but also to adults (as for example a live music marathon).

The combination of being visible at the official area and inviting the non-kid communities to get to know us and celebrate with us in my eyes is the best answer to a cowardish decision by LL.

Yes. I did write "If a creep comes into SL and seeks out child avatars, that's unpleasant for the adults with child avatars."

There's no real way of stopping someone coming into SL and attempting to RP molestation with a child avatar.
The situation would be very cruel, even traumatic for a person running a child avatar and who had been molested as a child, but it's impossible to head off at the pass if it does happen.
Looking for the positive side of it, the situation would allow the person behind the child avatar to deal with the situation and the perp
1) in the safety of the anonymity of the online world
2) with the hindsight of experience and adult age

I'm not qualified in these areas, but I have an instinct that even though such an event could be traumatic, it could end in a sense of empowerment for someone who had been abused as a child.

I can't AR someone for that (well, I can, but whoever would pick up that AR would get a really good laugh before hitting delete), nor would I even think to do so. Why would I?



Bingo. Like so many things, it's the same rule for me as for any other avvies on the grid. Or should be.



The way I look at it is this: LL wants to be "the 3D web." Stepping away from all of the other roadblocks and pitfalls in the way of that dream, they view the controversy that started way back with Report Mainz as a big issue. The Report Mainz story, for those newer than a year or so, involved a location participating in sexual ageplay *and* the trading of real-world images portraying underage sexual activities. This combination of two otherwise unrelated items, as well as the conflation that child avatar = sexual ageplay, have led us to where we are today.

I think this can be turned around. Unfortunately, doing so requires visibility -- and this is harder to do when the very company your community (yes, I'm sure someone cringed when I used the "C" word) exists under wants to hide you away from the light.



Thankoo, Ann!

I need to put someting in my own blog -- I've been to busy posting here and there, and not composing my thoughts into a single place!



Not only that, but are treated as if *we* are equal to the very predators who took our innocence. It reinforces the feelings of guilt and shame, those views that we were somehow complicit in what happened to us. :-/

Mari

Are there actual examples of this?

This sounds pretty bogus. I've heard of people being forced in RP areas (such as Gor) to RP or leave, but its not an AR offense.

Perhaps you are confusing someone refusing to RP who got abusive and subsequently AR'd with being AR'd for not Roleplaying.

Maybe we could pass out Kid avatars and have EVERYONE there wear one.

Kind of like the Slim Shady thing on the Video music awards a few years back where there were dozens of them.

arrive as yourself, then change into your kid av after the show is going. wouldnt THAT be an event!...

No, I'm referring to the example above - of someone making a sexual advance to a child avatar in a Mature area and being instantly ARed. Yes, if they were "harassing" this would clearly be ARable, but a single approach normally wouldn't be harassment.

The moment you say "well, it's ARable because they are making a sexual approach to a child", you're endorsing their role-play - because after all you know that they're not really a child. No other role-played role in SL can be endorsed in that way.

I've been tempted to give a copy of my avatar to M Linden himself... Considering he's been such a crybaby over his own appearance. (>_< ... (^_^)y

For what it's worth I think this is a very good plan.



Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound as if I were disagreeing with you. My instinct is that your instinct is good and what you say makes sense.

I was thinking about making a little Ann, to show my support.

Has anyone seen a Neko skin that could pass on a child av? All of mine are too adult and too made up.

:-/ indeed. I wish... there were a way to give everyone a carefree childhood.

I think that changing back and forth at intervals would enhance the effect.
It's an avatar - there's a person behind it. It's not as simple as the appearances might be.

You want simple?
Tough!

Well what choice are they left with?

If the kid avatar doesn't instantly AR and report someone who propositions them - they might get banned for "participating" in sexual ageplay.

not anymore cruel then living with flashbacks, post traumatic stress disorder, night terrors, clinical depression, addictions and impaired immune systems. just to name a few. all of which are common for survivors of child abuse. if role playing being little (or regressing emotionally) helps then it seems especially cruel not to allow it.

WOW! pee ess why cee aytch oh!!!

I have to agree, this doesn't make sense.

I have heard this "explanation" before

I also have doubts that pretending to be a kid and engaging in cyber-sex with someone who is pretending to be a pedophile is actually "therapeutic"

It doesn't make any sort of logical sense.

And even though there have been posters who claimed this to be the case in the past, I still find it impossible to believe.


Someone who was abused finding comfort is pretending to be a kid - that I understand. Its the sex part that makes it not believable.

you're fast. i deleted that. LOL

I think it's great that they can play out wholesome childhoods in SL. I can't help wishing there were a way to protect them from creeps...
If you mean that it's good for them to re-enact trauma I'd need to see some expert testimony on that. My sense is that without a great deal of care and professional help it would more likely make things worse.

I can't think of anything I'd like to do less than that.

Mari