SL5B - No Kid Avatars, please!

Are we sure Dan L quit?

I think everyone knows why ...

They are afraid of Fox News.

I think that's a bit over-the-top. Chances are that only 5% of Second Life will be involved in building for the 5B anyway, if child avatars were welcome it would still only be maybe 10% of child avatars. The reasons for leaving out child avatars are very nasty and quite unfair but there's no inclusiveness issue because there was never inclusiveness.

Eh.. I'm not suggesting that kid-avs are around in insurmountable numbers, but there is still a considerable representation of them on the grid. And correct me if I'm wrong, but they have participated in SLB in the past, have they not? If so, there is an inclusiveness issue. Even if they haven't, I still don't see how this issue of inclusiveness doesn't exist. The percentage of the general population participating in building, and the more granular percentages of various community participants aren't really material to the issue at hand. They've effectively told residents in good standing to f*#@ off.

The internet has given rise to a new phenomenon - the Freudian typo. Stupid qwerty keyboards, with the "i" right next to the "o".

Mea culpa - I'll go fix it.

Not just residents, but CUSTOMERS. Paying Customers.

UGH.

Yeah I've heard these Freudian sex... er I mean slips can be quite reveling... revealing I mean.

Obviously they (LL) feel it is too sensitive an issue at this time because it is so easy to misunderstand. The media have had reports that there are Adults playing children and having cybersex, they have also heard that minors can get into Second life easily, so this is the reason this is happening----

___________the whole concept of Adults roleplaying children in non-sexual ways, is not something people are going to understand easily especially if info and education about it, comes in sound bytes.

I am sure LL knows the difference between sexual age play and people role playing with child avatars non-sexually--but LL also must know that this distinction is not easily understood by those who might hear about it for the first time or who have explored SL and have discovered lots of fetish behavior.

Now if someone went on Oprah and explained all that in depth, having Oprah log onto a child avatar while on her show, for some "therapeutic" family fun. then maybe people would learn to see there is a difference....or maybe people would think Oprah had gone off the deep end and her sponsors would be up in arms.

LL has to deal with investors and partners and when trying to court big companies to get involved in SL I am sure that they have heard criticisms that SL is a sex platform and not suitable for business and that the biggest business besides land have been genital makers and sex appliances.

The idea that much of SL is creativity unleashed, will be drowned out by fears of SL being a haven for perverts.

The truth is, on the mature grid, you pretty much cannot go anywhere, walking, exploring or shopping without seeing sex items, naked noobs with erect penises, and very sexy avatars, escorts and lots of people propositioning people.

LL has to look out for the business itself. They don't want it shut down or closed by court injunctions or smeared in the media and are probably hoping people (EDIT: The people who like using child avatars for non-sexual role playing) will understand.

If LL continues to take the "we are just service provider" approach, then you can forget the big Virtual Reality Utopian dream they have claimed to have----then none of this will matter anyway and it will only continue to be the 3D porn world---cause thats where the quick money is. SOMEONE is going to regulate the hell out of it if LL won't do it, using ingenious means----and those other means of regulation are not going to be ingenious.

SL will just be synonymous with porn and anyone using SL will be branded as someone who masterbates to pixels just as porn addicts use magazines or porno films. Porn is a lowest common denominator and it will easily overtake many other aspects of SL.

Designers, clothes makers, script writers, animation makers, skin maker, and all of the backbone, support creators in SL, are already, very much, supporting the Porn industry. An uncontrolled SL, will always be part of the online porn industry. Last I checked, Utopia is NOT synonymous with Porn, scammers, hustlers, theives and fast buck artists.

I totally understand why people with Child Avatars might feel singled out and it is not fair, but seriously, they are NOT children in RL and should understand how it might look to others who do not understand, So there is the worry about fueling a kneejerk media frenzy.

"Roleplaying," in online worlds is not something the average person is going to have any concept of and anyone using SL for a few days is going to encounter lots of sex related content. If it wasn't taught in school and if it isn't on Oprah, (or the equivalent in other countries) then people at large will only view it with suspicion.

Is it really such a MYSTERY, that some average, rightly thinking and reasonable, non-prudish, person, coming into SL seeing all of the porn and sex items, in stores, being approached by naked strangers with huge phalluses etc.etc, etc,---lots of wild behavior..and then, seeing some non-sexual Child Avatars strolling about in Pinafores with blankies and baby bottles, reacts and feels aghast?---If you think that is unreasonable, then you really have been in a fantasy reality too long.

-----It IS NOT hard to understand where the concern comes from. The concern is not paranoia, it is not an overreaction, it is not necessarily going to be coming from only fanatic religious fundamentalists or Spinsters. A concerned reaction is going to come from ANY responsible person.

At any rate, the way this has been communicated to the non-sexual, Child Avi groups is typical LL clunky customer relations.

If linden labs doesn't take the service provider route then they will suffer in courts and it will be affected by court cases.

Or should your isp filter your online viewing so that people don't have to worry about seeing anything they might find objectionable to their morals and beliefs?

Linden Labs isn't fighting an over sensitive issue, they are sweeping it under the rug and giving the media an easy target to misrepresent the limits on no child based exhibits in the media extravaganza. Which is actually against their goals of making the grid family friendly... because people would see it's not a place with things for their kids to do... just adult entertainment.

And here is a clue, there are places that you can go on the main adult grid and not see a single nude avatar. Whole sets of sims even where it's not allowed and quickly dealt with.

Hell there are portions of mainland that make so called clean neighborhoods in the physical world look like sordid red light districts. Since the string bikinis, short shorts, and other suggestive clothing isn't allowed.

?

nvm Mort

Why don't YOU go on Oprah with a Long Earred furry look and explain it to the masses k...thx.

buy the plane ticket and I would

My point is there are places in the physical world far worse than anything on the grid.

But the politicians are not going to mention them because for the children speeches about digital worlds sounds a lot better than saying "hey, be a parent and stop letting your sons and daughters dress like that. Pay attention to what they do. And be a responsible parent"

Interestingly, one of our "child avatars" was just today accepted into the Mentor group. And I'm told there are others in that group who operate child avatars. So what is the message here, as it relates to the SLB event? Particularly in light of Rebecca's well articulated response? From this point on, all public events on The Grid which enjoy Linden Lab sponsorship or endorsement are really just publicity events for the Lab. A time to schmooze with the media and paint Second Life up in really pretty colors. A time to sweep things which the RL general public might have difficulty understanding under the rug, soas to avoid offending their delicate senses.

Meanwhile, child avatar operators are welcomed and encouraged to join the Mentor group, to train up newb Residents in the way they should go, going a long way toward relieving considerable strain on the Lab's capacity to handle new entries to The Grid. And as a "thank you" for their honorable aspirations to become Mentors, they are accepted, and on virtually the same day, informed that their contributions to the 5th Birthday Celebration of Second Life are "respectfully declined".

Rubbish.

Especially considering there is no time when things involving people is not a sensitive issue

Even more so when it is in regards to children in truth or perception.

It's hardwired into most to protect the species young. Now the adults of the species... is a different matter

I understand why sexual ageplay is banned

I understand why adult content is 18+

-----------------

But please stop with "SL is a den of porn" comparisons

They are pixels .. nude avatars are just cartoon naked people.

Uploaded images are naked pictures .. taken from ..

(drumroll)

Other places on the internet.

And none of those "places on the internet" offer the kind of immersive, interactive 3D "sex" found in SL.

If I am sitting on Google news, minding my own business, reading newstories, I don't have to worry about the sudden invasion of a naked avatar with an erect penis walking into my living room or spying on me from across the sim who decides they want to stalk me and proposition me and start chatting me up with sex talk. and like real life, if I look sexy, I can be blamed for enticing them---but not in my living room unless I am dancing naked in front of my picture window---and all of Sl is a open picture window and I can be spied on from a mile away with binoculars that can see through walls.

I am a green blip with breasts.

Actually there are worse places out there oriented towards pure sexual encounters in 3D environments (but SL is more well known with a higher user base so more people target it) that have been brought up in discussions (and most of them are even more lax on verification and watching for underage use)

And in sl you have mute, ban and abuse report tools. Just like in the physical world you can hang up the phone and call the cops.


I'd hate to imagine the lag from setting draw distance to full sim...

UGH





Oh yeah that works in Sl.




On good computers with a good connection, it's no problem.

Work great for me, perhaps you are not using the tools properly.

I mentioned a few pages back that in fact, the rest of the online world is saturated with pornography. No, it's not 3D pixel sex, but it is pervasive in the 2D web even more-so than in the virtual world. It's a simple Google search away, and access to it has none of the bothersome constraints that Linden Lab have put into place on the SL Grid.

"Immersive" invokes "consent" in my mind. I'll not immerse myself in any experience within which I'm not comfortable. Nor will I allow another person to compel me to do so. You do have options. It's your experience, and you should be in control of it. If you're not, you're surely not in a good place.

Again, this talk of "sex", even "pixel sex" is contrary to the entire point of exception to Linden excluding the kid-avs from contributing to the SL5B event. It obfuscates the legitimate concerns. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the core issue. It's a healthy thing to discuss it now and again, but let's keep clear heads here..

LOL theres places that will show you actual live sex for a couple dollars a minute.

And movie clips of actual sex for free.

There are even places that advertise real live sex in real life. (for a suitable fee i'm sure ROFL)

Web Cams / Phone sex / Erotic catalogs

SEX SEX and more SEX

Where have you been? living in a convent that only has WoW?

SL is tame, TAME! by comparison

lol

Its just 3D cartoon people. Its only as immersive you let it be.

The really naughty stuff is in the communication between people. And we had that back in 1997 in text only chat rooms.

Right!

Because kid Avs aren't allowed to have sex. It says so in the rules.

So it should be assumed they aren't having any - so what the heck is LL excluding them for?

I did some edits on my long post a page back, to further clarify and deepen what I am saying, so I am not going to repeat myself to much.

Talking about pixel sex does not obfuscate the issue at all.

That SL is a Porn environment, is the issue. A porn environment full of people into porn, maybe the most casual Sl users, and the connection with people role playing children and having sex, is the issue. That there is a group of people who enjoy role playing children even non-sexually, is going to make people concerned.

Knowing that anyone, predators or children can get into Sl free, using a false identity is the issue.

Thats what this is about. As long as people keep seeing child avatars wondering around there will be people, who will rightly feel concern.

Perhaps the tool is clueless.

Perhaps the tool is clueless.

All the internet then should be off limits to children, both the underage and the role players (regardless of the platform used to facilitate the role-play, being graphical or just text)



They can use false identity to do a lot of things, not just get onto second life. But there is a limit to what can be reasonably done to prevent it in the international reality of the internet.



Yes, because fear and misinformation in order to boost ratings will always be more popular in the media outlets.


Adult content is here for good on the grid, Linden Labs knows this and is working on steps to help with doing what they can to limit children's access to it. But they can no more prevent every child from getting onto the main grid than a parent can watch their kids 24/7. Parents have to do their part to help, else the children are going to go online and be subject to predators and inappropriate content. And screaming at companies and the governments to do something isn't the solution.