SL5B - No Kid Avatars, please!

Actually we "kids" are working on TWO sims to hold our party. Everybody is welcome to participate of course.

On thing bother me anyway. Kids av. seems to carry lot of assumption how "bad and pervert" we are, but Horses Av having sex with human looking avt seems normal...

Well, time to keep building, we are racing against time now.

And Happy Festivus all

Probably because 'for the kids!' works better for a politician than 'pony!'

Furs carry a lot of that too, same as many others out there. Stereotypes hurt, because they are always based off the worst

LL is the sim-owner, whatever is going to be showcased on those sims suggests a de factor endorsement by LL.

Guests on the other hand are just guests and each guest is responsible for his/her actions during their visit, it's nothing to do with LL.

Under the name of "Kids5B" we are building our own celebration SIMs, we invite all parts of the kids community to contribute and present themselfs there - and we invite *everyone* to visit us during the celebration days, that are planned at the same time as the official SL5B celebrations. We even will have a "Adults to Kids Workshop", where shapes, skins, clothes and other kids stuff will be offered for free, so everybody can try out being a kid avatar himself

We also encourage kid avatars to NOT boycott the official celebrations! We will do field trips there, we want to be visible, we will wear our Kids5B group tags and hopefully shirts

Which is pretty much what I said in post 367, albeit in harsher terms.

I'd go back to my first post in this thread, in which I suggested that *everybody* get child avatars and wear them to the event.
We have to decouple "SL child avatar" from "child sex". Bring SL child avatars way out into the open. Anything seen as an attempt to draw a veil over the fact of SL child avatars will only feed the ignorance frenzy.

LL appear to have got themselves into a position in which they could be seen as indicating that there is something wrong with child avatars while at the same time not doing anything to stop "the problem".

LL's PR should be challenging the misinformation-by-omission in items like that Fox report with Congressman Kirk.
1. It's an adult grid, for 18+. There is a separate grid for under 18s. Applications for that under 18 grid are thoroughly vetted in order to prevent predators from gaining access.
2. Any minors who lie about their age to get on the adult grid are banned on detection
3. Accounts are suspended instantly if there is any suspicion that they are minors.
4. Such accounts are reinstated only after they have supplied documentary evidence of age.
5. There is an explicit ban on even the cartoon representation of child sex, which goes beyond the requirements of US law.




It might have been the case that the theme of the event was intended to be entirely centred on RL national and ethnic cultures. This would be to highlight the international nature of the resident base.
In that case a restriction on special interest groups would have been understandable. No non-humans, no fiction-based groups, and no pensioners groups (for instance). In that case, the theme should have been made absolutely clear from the outset.

What we have is a mess created by LL's incredibly bad communications with the residents.

That fine distinction will cut absolutely no ice with the sort of mentality that drives Fox news, dishonest politicians and their fellow travellers.

That distinction will indicate to them that LL believes that there is something about child avatars that is undesirable.

Wait... in RL people look at kids and think they're pedophiles? I'm confused. Maybe you misunderstood what I was sayin?

Mari

Often the victim is made to feel like the criminal. Like they should have been quiet or just gone on their way.

We know that wasn't the *original* intent because the original proposal form listed some in-world groups, but as I mumbled somewhere, later it plausibly may have become a PR necessity to make the theme either RL or SL cultures but not both.

Of course LL has the right to do what they want with their business, and celebrate SL5B in whatever way they think maximizes their business objectives. But that doesn't mean residents have to play along as if their actions are perfectly acceptable.

My inclination would be to give them the benefit of the doubt this one time, on the premise that they know something about a particular political sensitivity just right now. But at the same time, I think it's critical that the message be crystal clear to the Lindens that residents do not accept this in future. That means, for example, there must *not* be a Caledon proposal for any SL*6*B that excludes SL Kids. And nothing else, either: any SL6B without kids must be a party in which participation is commercially disastrous.

Yes, social change comes, and comes gradually--but only if people are willing to sacrifice to make change happen.

If a creep comes into SL and seeks out child avatars, that's unpleasant for the adults with child avatars.
It might actually be beneficial for society as the creep will very quickly learn that bad things (like AR and banning) will happen immediately they try to act creepy with "kids". In RL they might be able to manipulate kids, in SL the "kids" are adults with a short fuse for that kind of thing.


As for SL being "an entirely adult place", what does that actually mean in a world where non-human avatars exist?

I think the problem Sling is so many look for only the bad, and never bother looking for the good. (not saying Karl doesn't look... but so many don't) There are fairy glades full of tiny animals, playgrounds designed for the children avatars, and simple galleries and exhibits that they can go to.

And the bad things that happen in the digital world are nothing like the bad things that can happen in the physical world to those that prey on kids. If caught they are not put into general population for a reason.

Building on that...

Media:
"But there are child avatars in SL."
LL:
Yes. There are all sorts of avatars used in SL - Mythic creatures, animals, cartoon figures, fish, birds, mermaids, space creatures, plants, robots, you name it.
Come and meet some of them.
Come and meet our new CEO, he's the Tray of Donuts avatar over there talking with the Fruit in Jello avatar.

My thought was of the potential child predator at the start of the slippery slope. An experienced predator would not expect to find real kids in the SL adult grid. An idle first-timer might not think things through and could end up making advances to someone like Marianne. BANG!! The result might dissuade them from further idle exploration of a thought.

Child predators entering the SL adult grid are entering a minefield while wearing great big heavy clown shoes.

True

Most predators would look for digital and physical venues where they were guaranteed access to children.

Hate to say it but the consoles (with the online services) offer a far better chance than SL... and parents usually don't even consider them a threat (they do after I talk to them...)

I think shunning the event would be about the worst choice. Most of the population doesn't even know that this discussion is taking place. Most people will only find out about the birthday celebration when they log in and see a notice and slurl in the message of the day. They will go to the party and be completely clueless about this terrible decision by LL unless the child avis are there to inform them. It would be great if you could organize shifts of people so that there were always a significantly large group of children there with signs and/or shirts to let people know what was going on. It would be even better if you could get a lot of prominent people that normally use non-child avatars to show up at the party as children.

Also, don't forget about the request for photos of past events that someone is organizing to be displayed at the party. It would be great if the past exhibits by the children's groups had a prominent spot in that exhibit.

Building even further on the "misinformation" front - that Second Life is too often singled out as a dangerous place for kids, where pornography and deviant sexual roleplay is rampant (which it isn't).

This problem is in no way unique to Second Life. A few choice keywords entered into Google, and some of the most shocking and horrifying pornographic content is only a click or two away. Explicit content is ABUNDANT on the web, and freely accessible without even a notion of age verification - even on Google Video itself, which [unwittingly] hosts content boasting "actors" who are clearly of questionable age..

If - and this is a big if - Linden's reason for shunning the well intentioned members of the community - who happen to roleplay as children - is the perceived connection between child avatars and sexual behavior, then it is ill-conceived and is a fully transparent attempt to sweep "the problem" under the rug. The truth is, if the entire SL Grid were a rug, it wouldn't be big enough to cover the problem - it extends far beyond the borders of the virtual world, and was present in the Ether when Second Life was still a figment of Philip's imagination.

That being said, I can certainly not forget Robin's reaction when that reporter shoved the child porn content in her face, and informed her that it was retrieved from the Grid. I sympathize with their situation, and applaud most of the efforts they've undertaken to deal with it, but they still must remember that it is not unique to Second Life, and Linden Lab must work in concert with other service providers, and government, to continue to make the broader online world a safer place to work and play.

Knee-jerk reactions to uninformed politicians only serve to do more harm.

I've made the observation before the only publicity that LL responds to with a change of policy is negative publicity.

With that in mind, I'm more than half tempted to attend SL5B holding a sign that says "LL Thinks Child Avatars Are Only For Sex... After All, They Banned Them From Exhibiting In A PG Event"

...or maybe making a blog entry like that, and seeing how many linkbacks I can get so that it will show up highly placed on Google...

Check out Vint Falken's site for a fairly comprehensive listing of the blog entries to date on this subject.

http://www.vintfalken.com/children-not-welcome-at-sl5b/

No, the textures were vendors selling sexual "torture" equipment, right next to vendors selling school uniforms.

did it ever occur to anyone maybe the guy who was looking for kids was searching for them because he wanted to be one himself and wanted to make friends or get advice?

i just want to say that alot of the assumptions made about this . .well they come from dirty minds obviously capable of envisioning the worst possible interpretations. i think people have really dirty minds. i think they are scared of it. and i think they are lashing out against what they see inside themselves.

But that in itself is.. actually a slightly bad thing, I think.

Because I have heard this as a complaint I had heard in some areas about child avatars - that they "force" their role-play onto others because of the ageplay rules. If Marianne can AR someone for not treating her like a child, why couldn't a fairy AV AR someone for not treating them like a fairy?

It's not the 'treating them like a child' that they AR for. It's making sexual advances at them that earns the person an AR. And frankly, that doesn't just apply to child avatars, because anyone can nail unwanted sexual advances as harassment, especially in a PG area.

No, this is just LL overreacting to media hype instead of actually ignoring the hype like the rest of us do. Edited: The only thing I could see them losing by ignoring this crap is the people who can't tell reality from fantasy.. and what kind of loss is that?

She can't. If in a roleplaying area she controls, she can at most evict people who do not conform to the theme, as can any land-owner/community manager.
On "neutral ground"... well, I am one of those who have voiced criticism against foisting their roleplay on unsuspecting bystanders. Generally, it just earns an ignore, just like any other annoying, but not strictly ToS-breaking avatar.
She can AR somebody for fishing for things which are against the ToS, however.

(Must... not... pun... about... fairies... in... this...thread)