SL5B - No Kid Avatars, please!

Shame on everyone who has allowed this thread to devolve into arguments and allegations of sexual ageplay. You should all.. ALL.. be ashamed of yourselves. (on both sides of the issue).

This thread was about Linden Lab's absolutely reprehensible policy decision to shun one of it's most vocal, "showpiece" communities. SLKids are everything they say they WANT in SL.. pure, decent family fun.. raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. Worse than PG, they're most often G RATED! This showpiece group, fronted by some of the BIGGEST SUPPORTERS of Linden Lab's product... turned away without so much as a "by your leave"..

Lumped in categorically with Goreans and the BDSM community.. as though there was any connection whatsoever.

YOUR purile minds have made the leap from "Children" to "Sex"...

This was about caterpillar races and balloon rides... bumpercars and swimming holes.. That's what the kids in SL are about. That's what Linden Lab has tossed out.

Shame on all of you.
And shame on every Linden Lab employee.

you obviously didn't read every comment, Winter.

many of us have said we WANT child avatars allowed to be able to roam the grid just like everyone else. we want the ban of child avatars from public events lifted. we vote against their decision.

however, the reason behind the ban in the first place is based on the controversy that surrounds the underground sexual ageplay that they can't seem to get control of. to be willing to discuss the desire to open the grid to child avatars and yet not be willing to discuss the reasons behind the ban is not an open-minded debate.

shame on yourself. you obviously didn't read every comment, Winter.

many of us have said we WANT child avatars allowed to be able to roam the grid just like everyone else. we want the ban of child avatars from public events lifted. we vote against their decision.

however, the reason behind the ban in the first place is based on the controversy that surrounds the underground sexual ageplay that they can't seem to get control of. to be willing to discuss the desire to open the grid to child avatars and yet not be willing to discuss the reasons behind the ban is not an open-minded debate.

furthermore, the arguement against sexual ageplay is not based on adults roleplaying with other adults. it is, instead, based on the dangers this sort of roleplaying brings to the real world. because let's face it, there are pedophiles in the real world, and whether you like to believe it or not, they are boldly coming out of the closet in SL, and if i had the time, i spend it all scoping the grid for these creeps (men and woman) and bust them all.

police. yup. don't like it. so? deal with it.

child avatars, furries. robots. dragons, etc. should be welcomed into SL with open arms.

IT degenerated into the reason for the ban

And normally I'm a lurker since I don't log in any more...

As many said the reason for the ban is fear of the political posturing and bs about that paints anything involving children avatars as sexual age play.

Before a problem can be solved, you got to root out the reason the problem exits

And in many people's minds child and teen aged avatars are all about the sexual deviancy hence them being lumped into those groups out of reflex.

Kinda like many lump furry into beastality and the like...

Last time I saw some one openly dealing drugs in front of Police officer I said don't you see those guys dealing drugs and the Police officer looked at me and said how would I know what was happening unless I was involved.... and I have never done anything illegal except smoke a joint or two when I was in my 20s and I have no criminal record.
That the reality I come from.
I guess the reality is a lot of people here think everyone including the Lindens who has child avatar is going to break out in mass orgy of child perverted sex...or this would be non-issue here.
I responsible for myself, I can't joke around especially as child because of this stuff...because someone might think I am pervert.
That people assume that every thing about SL for everyone is about sex.
That what really bugs me the most about SL.

Then you dealt with a crooked cop, they do exist in the world.

And to the later I agree

Me and others and keep chipping away on the brick wall of misinformation...might not be able to knock it down hard and fast... but enough chips can make it tumble.


to include your edit


Because that is what the media feeds the masses, it takes effort to fight that mass feeding with education and truthful information.

I suppose being one the "kids" in Second Life comes with its ups and downs. Everyday something is being instilled as fear into the very fabric of our community. A new day, a new battle waged against stereotypes that drives a wedge between us. The overall picture is , it's not just us kids who get discriminated against, it's alot of the unique and creative communities here in SL.

Not every community gets to be this weeks victim of policy, procedure and prejudices. This happens to be the week for us Second Life kids and either we unite together as a community or fall together as Linden Labs pushes itself to become a government of casual policy changes without any regard to its residents and their world.

As I followed the thread, I noticed lots of good points being discusses and debated. That is great, we are opening the lines of communication in our world and trying to seek a solution to a matter that has gotten under the skin of so many of us. These open discussion are what make our experiences here in Second Life so different from the real world, we are able to plan, discuss, debate and consider the feelings of others in a way that some of us would never be able to accomplish otherwise. Opinions are being stated from every corner of the globe and that is an awesome accomplishment as we strive to become a global society.

There are some of you who dislike Child avatars in Second Life and some who also despise the furry, Neko and Gorean communities as well. It is ok as a resident to be not as comfortable with one genre of roleplaying as another. You can't force yourself as a person to suddenly accept everything that's thrown in your face. We all have reasons for what we find acceptable and what we do not. But the issue isnt about each of us and our personal tastes, it is about LL suddenly taking freedoms away from a group of adults who engage in wholesome fun in the spirit of being immature and avoiding the dramas of an adult orientated roleplaying environment. Do seedy "secretive" areas exist in Second Life that promote and openly display sex with adults posing as children? Are there areas that pretend to engage in things you possibly couldn't imagine? The answer to both is, maybe. Second Life is a vast network of grids who can hide and mingle with a select group of chosen people. But that truly does not represent the community of kids that I correspond with on a daily basis. I have met 1000's of SL Children who would never get involved in such matters and seek to exist to experience the more casual and goofy adventures and hanging out that we all enjoy so much.

We aren't a group of people that is scattered about without organization. We have clubs, adventures, a live weekly radio show that discusses kid related events and news, we go on field trips and arrange special event. Several kids work very hard with Real World charities and we have fund raisers to help sick kids who need the support of everyone to brighten their lives.

As we have participated in past SLB events, we have chosen to represent ourselves in the most unique and ambitious fashion. Last year, Loki Eliot created an incredible sandcastle that highlighted the history of kids in Second Life, a well received and appreciated attraction. Every group in SL deserves equal treatment, respect and consideration. Not everyone will be able to understand your desire to be a kid, a donut, a dragon or a half eaten tree with falling snowflakes but its OUR world and OUR imagination. Make every voice count, let everyone express themselves uniquely and be happy when you buy fruit at your grocery store tonight, you only have to worry about dragons stealing your dinner when you log in.

The issue is the people who lump in non-sexual child avatar residents in with the sexual age players.

There is no need to do so.

The additional issue is those who think that Child Avatars are controlled by actual Children .. They aren't.

People need to form their opinions knowing this.

There is no excuse for people not being able to grasp these simple distinctions.

Let me give you an example of the problem I had.

I was searching today for something (which wasn't particularly related to children) when I saw a parcel advertising a "high-school roleplay". The parcel description contaned several synonyms for roleplay, and high school. There was nothing sexual about the description and the parcel picture was completely innocent. So I teleported to look it over, since I'm generally interested in role-playing areas.

I won't give any details, but it was immediately obvious that it was a sexual ageplay build. This wasn't because of what avatars were doing there, it was because of the textures on the walls (no, there was no real child pornography). I teleported away post-haste and cleared my cache, too. Ugh.

Witness the wonderful effect of the Lindens' policy to ban advertising sexual ageplay. Now at least some sexual ageplay places are advertising themselves as innocent. Anyone who visits will get a nasty shock, but if it's enclosed and privately owned land and wasn't advertising, their right to complain is limited. Meanwhile, people can no longer identify the places that genuinely are innocent - and how many times are they going to be fooled before they just give up?

Why is this relevant to the thread? Because it's the same issue. I know there are many wonderful innocent child-players in SL. But be careful, the sexual ageplayers are tarring you guys with their brush, and it's a bad-bad-bad brush. This ban is just the result of that.

the question is: are the powers that be in the Linden household among these ignoramuses? if so, they need to research. if not, they need to stand up for their customers.

either way, they are not making good choices regarding the blocking of child av's from a public event.

While I respect the position that says this should have been reported, could we please stop equating it with this sort of RL criminal activity?

Child avatars engaging in sex play in SL is a violation of SL rules. It is not, per se, illegal in the US. It might result in images that are illegal in other parts of the world, though I recall reading that one such case in Europe got dismissed.

Certainly there are legitimate arguments for reporting this behavior, but equating it with RL criminal activity isn't one of those arguments.

Are you saying that the textures were images of adult pornography? I can't imagine anything else that could you make you reach that conclusion, and even then that's not enough. I've heard of two different school areas that require adult avs.

i cant really respond to most of the posts about it because its misinformed nonsense. *raises her hands in exasperation* they sound so mentally ill and paranoid to me that i wouldnt even know how to begin to counter anything they are saying. if it was real life i would be scared by some of the opinions ive seen here. but since the activitives in question are legally protected, i guess confusion and disappointment better sums up my emotional response.

i think this is probably the most bizarre statement i have ever seen posted in forums and a really good example of why its not even possible to reason with people here.

i am kind of surprised youd be willing to share stories of your rl abuse with everyone in the forums.

but people on all sides of the issues should probably be made aware that many of the ageplayers in Second Life are real life survivors of child abuse, whether they engage in sexual activites in sl or not and regardless of the avatar they wear.

and also, regardless of where you are in the process of healing from abuse, regardless of how you feel about your own adult sexuality in real life or Second Life, people posting here should probably be made aware that alot of this alleged pedo behavior in sl is actually cathartic rp by survivors of real life child abuse. so alot of the accustations and hostility towards them is misplaced because they are the exact type of people who in rl you claim to want to protect, which is your rationalization for demonizing them in the first place. To say its ironic would be an enormous understatement. its like victimizing people twice. once from the abuse and then again for not being cheerful disney kids about it in SL.

ive been in Second Life for 4 years and while i havent always been aware of the sl kids here, i did over time learn quite a bit about what goes on here . . and why.

I think you missed the dripping cynical sarcasm in Chris's post.

whoops. thank god he was joking because his post was rocking my little world.

Actually the law in the us does forbid it : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_Act_of_2003

oh wow .. here we go again.

We've had hundreds of pages of threads arguing over that protect act.

I think the most they ever turned into is people not being able to prove SL avatars would be covered by that law.

But whether it is or isn't, no one has ever shown an example of anyone from Second Life ever being prosecuted under that act.

So until such I think Kidd is right, its more a case of breaking LL rules.

You know, a strict reading of that would make showing, owning or showing images of ancient Greek pottery illegal.

Well the supreme court ruled the following not too recently:

The prohibitions against illustrations depicting child pornography, including computer-generated illustrations, were previously ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court when they were included in the Child Pornography Prevention Act of 1996. However, the provisions of the Protect Act are distinct, since they establish the requirement of showing obscenity as defined by the Miller Test, which was not an element of the 1996 law.

Well then .. if so .. prosecute them.

Along with everything else that violates the act.

Arguing that something breaks this law that never goes to court doesn't really work. People should stop AR'ing this content and instead call the Police.

Wonder why these congressional representatives and Fox news can't even get the FBI to arrest these Act-breakers.

You AR them so linden labs can look into it and release the data to the authorities so they can get involved.

isnt it interesting that, aside from the german ageplay scandal and with all the investigations into activites in sl, nothing has ever come of it? nothing at all . .

But Linden Labs are not Prosecuting authorities,

They aren't even part of law enforcement.