SL5B - No Kid Avatars, please!

Because you watch (and believe) the mainstream media, and have been brainwashed by the liberals, who are ones who are trying to take away your freedoms and push their Marxist agenda. I feel sorry for you

Well, I decided to express my feelings with a comment on each blog that still had comments open. Any bets on how long they last before they're deleted?

LMAO Johan, I once believed as you do... tell you what.. watch some videos on google about 9/11 and then ask yourself if you still believe that..

I'm a little over a year old. I went last year. I remember it well. It was the first time I met Marianne in-world

I have been to the last 4 BDay bashes I will NOT be attending this years party.

I've seen people normally open and considerate saying that child avatars should be banned.

Calling it a little thing. That the virtual worlds don't matter. and that they make them uncomfortable.

Tell that to those who are using the worlds to have a childhood they never had.

Be it from spending years in and out of hospitals while growing up due to health issues, bouncing around as an unwanted orphan, or due to violence at the home making it hell on earth growing up.

Tell it to the ones that are returning to the good times in their life, to relive a time they were happy. Perhaps times when they could walk, speak, interact with the world through something other than a mouse and keyboard.

Many perhaps are trying to return to a time when everything was magical and innocent.

Sure it's all digital... but it's a way for them to live those dreams.

Might as well do away with chat, and just go pure voice if we start killing dreams to be something that brings joy and healing.

Those that found a way to reach out and 'speak' to others and express themselves being bared from the online worlds is just a small thing so others can be sure they are talking to a girl or a guy... and don't feel uncomfortable wondering.


Sure it's fear and hate, but is a small fear and hate...

It's not, there is no small fear or hate. It's simply is.

It's like planting a fruit tree is a small thing... till one stops and thinks of all the lives affected by that little tree as it grows. The pollutants pulled from the air, the oxygen it will release, the birds and animals that will gain shelter and food from it, if a fruit tree then people can very well eat it's fruit. Said fruit can be in a care package to remind a lonely soldier that people care, be given to a hungry person and feed them for the first time in weeks... Plus there will be the trees descended from it on and on..

There are no little fights or little things people, it all matters.

Maybe I'm rambling a bit, I'm off to bed. Maybe one person will get the message and understand. that'll be a victory at least.

Amen!But how can this be? Not that everything an organizing committee does has to be sanctioned by the sponsors, but: dreaming up exclusion criteria? If the committee started excluding groups without the Linden's quite active approval, I'd think LL would tell the committee to go organize their underwear drawers instead.

Wow, I had no idea there had been a Furry holocaust < builds an alphaprim 10m cube, sends it to 4000m and hides in it>
And all those Gorean sims are now gone too?
Did you pretend to be humand to misss the furry cleansing and now LL have banned humans too?

It's classic lazy human nature.
"This makes me feel uncomfortable. It must be bad."

Most people never stop to think about why something makes them feel uncomfortable.
Most people never stop to think .... period.
Thinking takes effort and an open mind. Thinking can challenge opinions long-held as certainties. Dangerous!!


"Most people"?
Look at who we elect - in any country
Look at the gutter press, gutter TV
People want quick easy answers presented to them on a plate.

I don't have to watch videos...I saw it in person.

Yep then compare the photochopped Google 9/11 videos against VCR recordings taken from the news as it happened, for some reason the CIA appeared to have broken into my house and edited my tapes

would it give the wrong impression if I wore a t-shirt that said "I am not a pedophile"?

Funny. Perceptions.
Someone mentioned 9/11 in the context of freedoms been taken away

Whereas others might have taken a mention of Google videos as referring to images of the incident itself, the thought that came immediately to my mind was video reports of what the politicians and the security industry did afterwards to turn the USA more into a police state, invade countries that had nothing to do with 9/11, make a fortune, legalise torture, etc.
I know. The terrorists made them do it.

It always struck me as odd that mobs of USA citizens didn't burn down every CIA and FBI building in the country after the security services IDed the terrorists even while the place was still burning.

Only if you were constantly following me around.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!
You would be implying that the rest of us were.

Wouldn't you?
Of course you would.

It's hard to know what to do when your government is using Newspeak and the media are acting like it would be unpatriotic to ask questions.

And I'll never ever forget.

That's for sure. Too many people I knew are no longer here because of it.

Even if they ask the questions, they don't give out the correct answers half the time. They just as full of shit as The Government.

Disturbing, isn't it?

In my undergraduate days, I went to a university that had a student population in the tens of thousands. According to the school, there was a 30% "greek" (fraternity and sorority) composition of the students; I never even noticed.

That's sort of the stance I take with LL hullabaloos - they ignore me and I ignore them.

That said, the hypocrisy and discrimination for PR purposes is a tad icky, but it is a big world in there, and - in my experience - those Linden events which aren't lagfests aren't laggy because they have crashed.

Troubling issue - the thought that some groups aren't welcome.

I've been reading along, trying to get my head around this and form an opinion.

* * * * *

First of all, I can't seem to find Robin's comments on the matter - does anyone know where that is? I may be mistaken, but it seems she had some words on the subject somewhere.

I'd like to hear the Company's side of it - be it Robin or anyone else.

Second - to me, kid characters are just another character. Sure, there is potential trouble if a kid character is used in a disturbing way, but I think that can be said for just about all characters, to varying degrees.

In my personal opinion, disallowing kid avatar participation is a bit over the top. By doing so, this whole issue has been stirred up to do far more damage than it would have done. If there is evidence to the contrary, I'd like to hear it.


Now, rather than the potential of a misbehaver being banned for doing something inappropriate, the whole thing is a social rights issue.

* * * * *

I'm a bit surprised the goreans and the bdsm people are not welcome either - maybe it has always been this way as a PG event? Which to my eyes, seems utterly ridiculous - we are not a PG grid. Seems to me they would just be on the mature side of the area.

Nobody seems to have any difficulty finding or avoiding such things day to day, and I can't fathom a reason why an 'all cultures' event should be any different.

Even in the real world you can go into a posh hotel almost anywhere, where real kiddies are expected and allowed, and there will be 'mature' areas - anything from the bar to Vegas style shows. The greater internet being what it is, having Victorian attitudes about what is typical on the grid seems to highlight scandal, rather than just pass it by.

* * * * *

I was the first to pointedly ban sexually behaving child avatars, gambling, scam-banking far before anyone else.

Which drew ridicule and accusations of oppression by many at the time, and I was told I was wrong at every turn - it's all buried deep within these very forums, when they were a much more free environment.

But we were also the first (as far as I know) to make a stand and declare avatar rights - rights which stand to this day, clear, and unfettered by 'responsibilities.' Thus making them true rights.

One of those rights is not to discriminate based upon how an avatar looks. Everyone is welcome - be they a child avatar or even a 'dragonkin' without human clothing.

* * * * *

Caledon will be part of Second Life's fifth birthday (providing that glitch in our application clears) - any absence will not be a statement or protest and I fully intend that we show up.

This decision may disappoint many, I know. So, why?

A few reasons:

1) There will always be a good 'cause' for boycott. Forever and every time. It's more important we come together like a family. The family may have internal issues, but when presenting its face to the public it shouldn't be one where brothers and sisters are fighting each other.

Such issues must be addressed - but this is not the place or time to do it. Relay for Life comes to mind also. Would we abandon a cancer charity if the same thing happens there? I say no; it's more important we participate, and work out social issues progressively. As a native Californian watching the news these days, I firmly believe that social change, though slow - does eventually come.

2) We have avatar rights. There is no public space in Caledon where child avatars behaving appropriately would be denied. It is important we are there and represent one of the progressive places where one *can* have rights, and people still manage to get along. We have long been described as 'one of the few places on the grid I'd dare to take a business client.' Yet we allow anyone of any form to be there. It's important we show up as a good example, and as they say, 'represent'.

3) Caledon also does not discriminate with regard to membership either. Should say, Marianne wish to be one of us and present with us, she will not be turned away. No, Caledon's area won't become the de-facto kid area. We are Steampunk Victorian Caledon first and foremost. But we do have our treehouses and swings, and tiny Beatrix-Pottery-Victorian creatures living in our forests. It is innocent fun, and I am not ashamed of who we are.

* * * * *

It is wise to not bring harm to our service provider, obviously, and I would never advocate that. But I think it is important to become the change we wish to see.

Perhaps if someone has a tree swing or shows up as a Victorian urchin, they will be ejected or denied. If it happens, there is little we can do, except carry on as best we can.

If your community has kid avatars or goreans or the like - would you censor them from your SL 5th birthday build? I literally can't, without undermining my principles and declared avatar rights.

Thus Caledon's presentation as a whole, or in part, might be removed. Some of us may end up ejected - I have no idea how big of an event - or nonevent - there might be. I'm not looking to go out of our way to make a statement, but I'm not going to deny any Caledon residents the rights they would normally enjoy at home either.

But I think we are not alone in having avatar rights. Perhaps other areas may not have rights specifically declared, but they exist anyway. I think all of us carrying on, supporting our friends as we would day to day, and maintaining our principles is the right way to go.

* * * * *

The question is not so much: is our service provider going to disallow this group or that.

The question is: are we going to censor ourselves and our friends, and if so, will it be to inappropriate extent.

Desmond, once again I take my hat off to you for such an excellent post. There has only been ONE instance where I disagreed with you, and this most certainly is NOT it!

[sigh]

Why aren't you CEO of LL yet?

Overqualified.

There is an official statement from Everett Linden here: http://www.massively.com/2008/05/30/calling-all-cultures-not-any-more/2#c12403549

Some of it refers to comments that were made on the Massively post, but here is the text in any case:

So, basically, Gor/BDSM exhibits fine, but child avs can't exhibit, though can attend.