For the rude answerers and RA goers

Im often reminded of a site called Flame Warriors. This was set up by a group of seasoned forum frequenters and chat room denizens.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/

This warrior class seems inexplicably familiar

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/fragilefemme.htm

Answered generically not directly to Ava.

Try being outside to see in. The whole point of a group of self referential people is that they can't see that they are not just accepting of each other, they are exclusiary even if they don't think they are.

Please understand, this is not meant personally at you yourself or any individual person. Every part of human society has this as a mechanism and I am also not "bleating" on my own behalf. My attitude is I am here like it or not.

I actually think RA is improving as people are becoming more aware of their actions and/or how they present themselves. Possibly this is a misconception based on actually muting the people who make my hackles rise - not something I do lightly but it has made all the difference.

I think that people are becoming more aware and directing people to the right Forums and places to get what they are really looking for when they want information.

AND I agree, in terms of teh intawebz, this Forum is incredibly tame. I personally am glad it is tame because it goes with what the spirit of SL was like when I first joined (let's forget what GD became like). If I want to use my claws there's far better places I can vent in.

No you don't You can't be all perverse then and hell, if you can't be perverse ... might as well lie down and stop breathing ...

By the fine gift of empathy Brenda, communication, sharing ... stuff like that.

You know what's funny Cherry? Until you started talking about not being in the clique, I always thought you were one of the main 4-5 people in it!

Good God! I definitely have NEVER belonged in it!

I am shocked. I really am, cos I speak purely for myself and always have done.

I should quantify that perhaps by saying that perception of others is difficult to manage and that is also part of why people feel excluded here (again not meant personally to anyone).

Me neither. People from the Midlands of England are never allowed in cliques. Or anywhere near them. We just have to open our gobs and 'ooooooh nooooooo'

You can come join my leper colony if you like but only if you bring some Orby's Dinky Doughnuts ...

Urgh. Time for "work".

<shuffles dejectedly>

Not sure about that. My friend works at the pasty shop though. She might be able to find us a couple of large lamb ones that have been lurking around the back of the store for a week or so. Washed down with a warm beer at the Queen's Head. Yum. Been quite a while since I've been sick over the bridge. Bloody river's so high though you wouldn't have to lean.

But see, that's the thing... someone (in this case me) considered you part of the clique, even though in your mind, you definitely have been nothing of the sort.

It's the same thing with me. I'm extraordinarily solitary, and have little contact with any forumites outside of this forum. I have been accused of "being in the clique" in the past, simply for posting a lot and occasionally agreeing with other forum regulars.

And yet in my mind, I am on the outside looking in. I lose interest in things quickly (I'm ADD), so I drop out of long threads when discussions get involved. And for the most part people here do not get my jokes. I rarely get attacked, but I get ignored more often than not.

So does that mean I think there is a clique that I've been excluded from? No. Truthfully, I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the people here feel the same way I do. This is why I ask "what is the clique?"... because from what I've seen, most people who are considered part of it think they aren't. And if that's the case, well, they're not much of a clique, are they?

Imagining cliques where there are none might indicate that theres a deeper problem that could need medical attention rather than a forum answer

I think Ava's post is more constructive and is far far closer to the mark.

What you are saying here is if people are paranoid - again, answering only for myself, I am not in the least paranoid - I am often put off posting, however, not because I feel someone might attack me, or say something contrary to my opinion ... I just look at the thread and think "Meh".

Interestingly I accidentally just clicked into the Building Tips Forum. Wow. People posting useful stuff and feedback. Not a single name I have ever seen in this Forum either.

I feel like that Ava. I realise people often don't get my humour and I'm not really interested in scoring points here so often I just can't be bothered any more. I said above ... managing other people's perceptions of you is often difficult.

Besides I really am used to some hardcore no-punches pulled BDSM Forums where the people know each other RL ... and have often got proper beefs with each other. Imagine the politics there!

Still, people do approach me at an alarming rate in world to express that they also feel very excluded and/or intimidated against posting. I tell them to come here and say what they want to, because the place is for all and not just some.

/me sighs as work claims me .. toodle pip for now.

No, thats not what I was saying.
What I said was ..... 'Imagining cliques where there are none might indicate that theres a deeper problem that could need medical attention rather than a forum answer'

Now I have thought about my response a little longer and have come to the conclusion that although it was initially a quick, tongue in cheek observation .....the adage...'many a true word said in jest' could well apply in this situation.

Seriously.....If people are imagining there are clubs/gangs/groups/cliques of people where there are none, then becoming disgruntled when people make what they perceive to be hostile responses are the least of their problems.

But, but, I thought you can't really know someone by their their written words? You have to hear them speak. I seem to remember that being put up as the Truth of the Day not too long ago.

This sums up really well why I have always denied there was a clique. I don't feel like I'm part of it, even though I post a lot. For me it's because I stopped going to the hangout, don't go inword much, and when I do, don't socialize, so I only have myself to blame.

Didn't mean to be snappy, the clock was ticking

I meant that looking for a personal issue was not constructive to the cause as it were, not against you personally.

I rather think that there are some very disgruntled people on the Forum because their SL is not what they wish it was. And that is often cyclical, I've been there often enough. Some - though by no means all - seem to use the RA as a third life, some use it purely to pass time, some to connect socially in a simpler way than in world, some for info, some for reasons which a trip to their local psychiatrist probably WOULD handle far better.

RA used to be my little escape from work, then I ended up here a lot more than I actually would have liked because of staying in touch with key people - in hindsight I should have used the mute button before now

Didn't mean to be snappy, the clock was ticking

I meant that looking for a personal issue was not constructive to the cause as it were, not against you personally.

I rather think that there are some very disgruntled people on the Forum because their SL is not what they wish it was. And that is often cyclical, I've been there often enough. Some - though by no means all - seem to use the RA as a third life, some use it purely to pass time, some to connect socially in a simpler way than in world, some for info, some for reasons which a trip to their local psychiatrist probably WOULD handle far better.

RA used to be my little escape from work, then I ended up here a lot more than I actually would have liked because of staying in touch with key people - in hindsight I should have used the mute button before now

***edit*** Ray, you've actually proved something I think is true. SL burnout is all too common after all. A week or two ago I would have happily chucked in the towel if I'd have been following how I felt, lucky for me (if not anyone else) that I recognised the signs and realised I have handled far worse than how I was feeling.

Personally when I've been to the Hangout I found it too quiet for my liking. Perhaps everyone was in IM and I had no idea why I was there. I appreciate that it was never designed with me in mind as a target audience and think it's a great build (Marty did a fab job). For others it's a great place.

Awww, then I'll never be in the clique. I'm Ignoring Ricardo.

I'm considering inviting Ricardo and Michael over for a chat. I am deadly serious too.

In voice I mean. If they'll be seen dead with a cat-monkey on a beach anyway.

Exactly like being called a 'troll' for no other reason that one person does not share another's view point. totally misrepresentation of the term...

I have a question, well several. (BTW, I've never been part of a clique...ever. Although I wanted to be in high school. So, obviously I'm not part of the clique to which you're referring) If I do agree with the opinions of the members of this "clique", should I not say I agree? Do I need to disagree just so I'm not accused of following a "mob" mentality? If I am thinking for myself, when is it safe to do so in your eyes? Only when I agree with you and not the others, who may or may not be part of the clique which may or may not exist? If I do agree with the "clique", have I been brainwashed and haven't realized? Or is it actually my own opinion?
Oh...and who determines whether or not it's actually my own thoughts? You or me?

"The Clique" is entirely subjective and the membership roster includes whomever the individual reader finds the most irritating. So, all of us are in the clique based purely on the fact that inevitably somebody out there in forum land finds us grating and snobby.

This is, of course, wildly different from the FIC - which was defined by a single person based on their own merit scale of who was pissing her off on any given day.

First off, don't stutter it's not becoming.

Second:

What choice do you have in these forums but to write. Whereas in sl itself while you can write and express yourself its not even close to how it is when spoken. This is the difference here and there. I had said typing is flat and cold which it is for relationships in sl but not for the forums as it doesn't matter here. Most thoughts are just that, cold and flat responses in here and people can often gauge what and how you're feeling when you respond in here. At least most can anyway.

The problem with the whole clique thing is that everyone thinks they're not a member, but people keep defining a clique to include a requirement that the people in the clique not realize that they are in the clique. So you don't know you are in it, but you don't think you are and you certainly don't want to be clique-ish, but you like hanging out with your friends. o.O hmm....We're screwed. Anybody can come in and accuse us of being a clique and under their definition, if we defend ourselves by claiming we are not, all we are doing is proving the opposite.

Basically, this points to a rather obvious flaw in the reasoning of people who say that there is a clique. They are not properly defining clique. If you define it as anybody I don't like who is currently disagreeing with me, then I guess the "clique" exists. That's a pretty worthless definition, though. Colloquially, the definition of clique includes some sort of exclusion of others. I think that is not present in these forums. It certainly wasn't my experience. People disagree with each other, but I have seen very little disrespect, with the exception of a few of the people who constantly claim the there is a clique. Disagreement does not equal exclusion. I have yet to see anyone being told that they are not welcome here. Even people who were completely disruptive are allowed to state whatever ridiculous opinion they want. They don't get the response they want, but until there is a violation of the TOS, they can post.

That indicates to me that the "clique" exists only in the minds of a few people who are either unable to handle someone disagreeing with them or who are being purposely disruptive and obstinate.

Awww, see now you went and hurt my feelings.


I said a clique but not a group type thing where they get together to conjure up responses. Not in that way. It's not what I was talking about, at least not in the sense of it being a group type thing. The ones I was referring to know exactly who they are. If anyone has to honestly ask then they're not who I'm referring to.