For the rude answerers and RA goers
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Love Hastings
#66666
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,094
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01-23-2008 10:37
From: Trout Recreant The problem with the whole clique thing is that everyone thinks they're not a member, but people keep defining a clique to include a requirement that the people in the clique not realize that they are in the clique. So you don't know you are in it, but you don't think you are and you certainly don't want to be clique-ish, but you like hanging out with your friends. o.O hmm....We're screwed. Anybody can come in and accuse us of being a clique and under their definition, if we defend ourselves by claiming we are not, all we are doing is proving the opposite.
Basically, this points to a rather obvious flaw in the reasoning of people who say that there is a clique. They are not properly defining clique. If you define it as anybody I don't like who is currently disagreeing with me, then I guess the "clique" exists. That's a pretty worthless definition, though. Colloquially, the definition of clique includes some sort of exclusion of others. I think that is not present in these forums. It certainly wasn't my experience. People disagree with each other, but I have seen very little disrespect, with the exception of a few of the people who constantly claim the there is a clique. Disagreement does not equal exclusion. I have yet to see anyone being told that they are not welcome here. Even people who were completely disruptive are allowed to state whatever ridiculous opinion they want. They don't get the response they want, but until there is a violation of the TOS, they can post.
That indicates to me that the "clique" exists only in the minds of a few people who are either unable to handle someone disagreeing with them or who are being purposely disruptive and obstinate. You only say that because you're in the clique. |
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Stormy Dyrssen
Out of the loop
Join date: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 832
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01-23-2008 10:48
From: Trout Recreant The problem with the whole clique thing is that everyone thinks they're not a member, but people keep defining a clique to include a requirement that the people in the clique not realize that they are in the clique. So you don't know you are in it, but you don't think you are and you certainly don't want to be clique-ish, but you like hanging out with your friends. o.O hmm....We're screwed. Anybody can come in and accuse us of being a clique and under their definition, if we defend ourselves by claiming we are not, all we are doing is proving the opposite.
Basically, this points to a rather obvious flaw in the reasoning of people who say that there is a clique. They are not properly defining clique. If you define it as anybody I don't like who is currently disagreeing with me, then I guess the "clique" exists. That's a pretty worthless definition, though. Colloquially, the definition of clique includes some sort of exclusion of others. I think that is not present in these forums. It certainly wasn't my experience. People disagree with each other, but I have seen very little disrespect, with the exception of a few of the people who constantly claim the there is a clique. Disagreement does not equal exclusion. I have yet to see anyone being told that they are not welcome here. Even people who were completely disruptive are allowed to state whatever ridiculous opinion they want. They don't get the response they want, but until there is a violation of the TOS, they can post.
That indicates to me that the "clique" exists only in the minds of a few people who are either unable to handle someone disagreeing with them or who are being purposely disruptive and obstinate. I totally agree with you, but I wanted to add something. Some people look at people, such as in this forum as a clique because a lot of you guys know each other well and they probably feel left out or excluded within the conversation. Also these accusers are also feeling attacked when people disagree or question them, they get defensive. It's sad really that people feel the need to make accusations in any form without really taking the time to get to know someone, well.........ok that's life. At first, I felt this way, then I started posting and making myself a part of the conversation. I see it totally differently now, yes, you guys hang out and know each other well, would you really exclude someone new and not take the time to get to know them, I don't believe you would therefore, I don't look at the people in this forum as a clique but a group of people who have spent time together and have become good friends. If I want to be included and get to know you guys better, than that is my responsibility to become a part of it. Which I really haven't done, I really need to scadattle down to the Cartel and meet all you wacky folks! Anyhow........the debate continues.......there will always be a party crasher, oh well. They will get over it and hopefully move on to something that works better for them. Commence Flaming!!!!  - Storm |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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01-23-2008 10:51
From: Stormy Dyrssen Commence Flaming!!!! No flames left, have a cookie?  .
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Stormy Dyrssen
Out of the loop
Join date: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 832
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01-23-2008 10:53
Nika, you keep handing me cookies, I just might have to make you my number one person ever!! Yuuummmmyyy!! |
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Trout Recreant
Public Enemy No. 1
Join date: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 4,873
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01-23-2008 11:02
From: Love Hastings You only say that because you're in the clique. Damn, damn, damn! Another seemingly good argument foiled by the infamous "clique defense". And qft on Stormy's post. Just because a group of people is having fun together or is friends doesn't make them a clique. I wish people would not feel so intimidated or get upset when others simply disagree with them. Get to know some of the people here. Look them up in-world and hang out. It's a great, diverse, intelligent group. Much more fun to hangout with than the yahoos that you meet in clubs and at welcome areas. Everyone is welcome if they make the effort and aren't complete pricks. Even a few of the complete pricks are welcome.
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From: Jerboa Haystack
A Trout Rating (tm) is something to cherish. To flaunt and be proud of. It is something all women should aspire to obtain!
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Stormy Dyrssen
Out of the loop
Join date: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 832
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01-23-2008 11:11
From: Trout Recreant Even a few of the complete pricks are welcome. Did you have someone in mind? LOL This is going sound stupid but what is qft? Anyway, eloquently spoken Trout! |
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Sally Silvera
live music maniac
Join date: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,325
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01-23-2008 11:14
From: Stormy Dyrssen This is going sound stupid but what is qft? QFT = Quoted for truth . |
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Stormy Dyrssen
Out of the loop
Join date: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 832
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01-23-2008 11:16
Ahhh, I see..........thanks Sally
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Trout Recreant
Public Enemy No. 1
Join date: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 4,873
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01-23-2008 11:23
From: Stormy Dyrssen Did you have someone in mind? LOL
This is going sound stupid but what is qft?
Anyway, eloquently spoken Trout! Yes. Me. 
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From: Jerboa Haystack
A Trout Rating (tm) is something to cherish. To flaunt and be proud of. It is something all women should aspire to obtain!
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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01-23-2008 12:00
From my point of view, I am merely being objective. I don't care if others disagree with me, I might learn something that way. I'm not being obstinate. I don't feel excluded, much as I also don't feel included. If I wanted to be included would I make an effort to join in and curry favour?
Probably. Then again, that's not me. I never was one to brown nose, and people have the ability to mute what I say if it doesn't suit so I am not worried on that score.
Strikes me that people have already become more objective about themselves and questioned their involvement. I've found myself deleting things because they really didn't need saying - and personally, I think that's a good thing.
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Xio Jester
Killed the King.
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 813
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01-23-2008 12:06
From: Blake Dwi /me hugs Penny..
The forums can be harsh sometimes. Just don't take it personal girl! I agree. It's just human nature for most folks to try to take any opportunity, no matter how ridiculous, to "take you down a peg". Humans are competitive social animals in the end, even though we can choose to be more mature and analytical than instinctual if we want.
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~ In Shakespeare, 'Tis The Fool Who Speaks The Most Profound Truth. ~
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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01-23-2008 12:06
From: Stormy Dyrssen yes, you guys hang out and know each other well I think many would be surprised to find that many of those they perceive as being in a clique have never met in world at all. Some are merely referring to a clique that exists here in the forums, of course. Which I still argue does not exist.
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My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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01-23-2008 12:13
From: Isablan Neva "The Clique" is entirely subjective and the membership roster includes whomever the individual reader finds the most irritating. So, all of us are in the clique based purely on the fact that inevitably somebody out there in forum land finds us grating and snobby. This is, of course, wildly different from the FIC - which was defined by a single person based on their own merit scale of who was pissing her off on any given day. I disagree with you on the first point - maybe I have a TOTALLY different worldview but it has nothing at all to do with someone being irritating or personal dislike. I keep getting others timidly saying to me that they are concerned about posting here, that's where my entire point has evolved from. I was baffled as to why they chose to come say to me, I still am. The second point ... LOL ... well I think the less said the better on that subject *G*.
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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01-23-2008 12:17
From: Stormy Dyrssen Did you have someone in mind? LOL
This is going sound stupid but what is qft?
Anyway, eloquently spoken Trout! I think he is talking about me.
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I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart
“Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind”
Douglas MacArthur
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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01-23-2008 12:21
From: Cherry Czervik I keep getting others timidly saying to me that they are concerned about posting here, that's where my entire point has evolved from. I was baffled as to why they chose to come say to me, I still am. You state this Cherry. You also stated in an earlier post that people approach you at an **"alarming rate to express they also feel very exluded"** I don't deny that this has occured but I'm sorry, I refuse to accept this is anything but a gross exaggeration on your part. If it's not, then somehow you have become a magnet for insecure wimps.
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My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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01-23-2008 12:29
From: Bradley Bracken You state this Cherry. You also stated in an earlier post that people approach you at an **"alarming rate to express they also feel very exluded"**
I don't deny that this has occured but I'm sorry, I refuse to accept this is anything but a gross exaggeration on your part. If it's not, then somehow you have become a magnet for insecure wimps. Hmm. Well I don't need to exaggerate so you can cross that off. I'd not be so nasty towards people personally who can't quite face an onslaught if someone might not quite agree with them as to call them "insecure wimps". Still, not everyone can stand their ground regardless ***edit*** some of those insecure wimps post here happily having been encouraged by me to just join in. Just a thought there!
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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01-23-2008 12:34
From: Cherry Czervik If I wanted to be included would I make an effort to join in and curry favour?
. This strikes to the heart of it here. If someone is an outsider, it is their own choice or they are insufferable asshats. And yes, there is pretty strong consensus on who the asshats are. And who would you curry favor with? As much as some argue otherwise, there is no group think on these forums. Even within this so called clique, there are numerous opinions. The person you are debating the most heated with today will be your biggest ally in tomorrow's debate. I would defy anyone to find one instance when I have ever changed my opinion to "curry favor". Are many of us friends? Yes we share common interests and respect one another. Do friends defend one another when one is attacked. Yes, that is what friends do. The problem isn't a clique, the problem is that many of the "outsiders" have never developed or refuse to develop the social skills needed to participate.
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I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart
“Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind”
Douglas MacArthur
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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01-23-2008 12:39
It does indeed strike at the heart of it Chris. I am assuming that you're not accusing me of having insufficient social skills, naturally.
Not everyone DOES have sufficient social skills, and I can think of one infamous person who was pilloried and mocked ceaseless by people old enough to be his mother or father. Quite nastily - in real terms of age difference about the same as a teenager picking on a kid in kindergarten.
That person was not blameless in their behaviour, I think the point when I stopped caring what people thought of me personally was when that episode arose, with people wishing bad luck on him and his sim and constantly having a go.
That isn't a friend of mine I am referring to.
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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01-23-2008 12:39
From: Cherry Czervik Hmm. Well I don't need to exaggerate so you can cross that off. I'd not be so nasty towards people personally who can't quite face an onslaught if someone might not quite agree with them as to call them "insecure wimps". Still, not everyone can stand their ground regardless ***edit*** some of those insecure wimps post here happily having been encouraged by me to just join in. Just a thought there! I wasn't being nasty Cherry, it's just this forum is *NOT* that bad and you have recently said so yourself. Maybe I'm misreading the way you are presenting it, but the way I'm reading it I'm having a hard time believing it. I'm not discounting what you are saying, I just don't think we are on the same wavelength here.
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My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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01-23-2008 12:43
From: Bradley Bracken I wasn't being nasty Cherry, it's just this forum is *NOT* that bad and you have recently said so yourself. Maybe I'm misreading the way you are presenting it, but the way I'm reading it I'm having a hard time believing it. I'm not discounting what you are saying, I just don't think we are on the same wavelength here. Which is why we have a Forum I know you're not being nasty, neither am I, I realise I am probably drawing fire but the point I'd make to that is that I am a big girl and if fire is coming my way (where eventually I will go 'meh' or decide I have had enough break from a build or my friend's list will ping up the name which gets my full attention) then someone else isn't feeling the pinch. I can live with you not agreeing with me and vice versa Oh Chris BTW I was not aiming what I said at you personally, you seem to have taken it as such.
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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01-23-2008 12:58
From: Cherry Czervik I disagree with you on the first point - maybe I have a TOTALLY different worldview but it has nothing at all to do with someone being irritating or personal dislike. I keep getting others timidly saying to me that they are concerned about posting here, that's where my entire point has evolved from. I guess to my way to thinking (which is admittedly warped in oh-so-many ways, but I digress) anyone who posts in RA with any frequency can be inferred by someone to be part of the clique. I don't consider myself to be part of any clique but I would bet you dollars to donuts that there are people out there in reader land that would disagree based on the fact that I jump in on the merry making with regularity. You are probably in the exact same boat. But I also see your point - back when I was a noob the forums were very intimidating and it took a brave soul to venture into threads where *ahem* certain strong personalities where ripping each other to pieces -- which was about 50% of them.
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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01-23-2008 13:02
From: Isablan Neva I guess to my way to thinking (which is admittedly warped in oh-so-many ways, but I digress) anyone who posts in RA with any frequency can be inferred by someone to be part of the clique. I don't consider myself to be part of any clique but I would bet you dollars to donuts that there are people out there in reader land that would disagree based on the fact that I jump in on the merry making with regularity. You are probably in the exact same boat.
But I also see your point - back when I was a noob the forums were very intimidating and it took a brave soul to venture into threads where *ahem* certain strong personalities where ripping each other to pieces -- which was about 50% of them. Well apparently some people did think I was in with the in crowd (WHOEVER they are or whoever people perceive them to be, I didn't start the fire). Which amused the hell out of me once the surprise wore off, and I am re-evaluating a lot of things today to be perfectly honest. I think one of my very first posts was in answer to someone saying how the noobs were going to ruin SL and me saying "Hey! I am new but I am nice" and I got a decent reception even in the midst of GD and the episodes best not referred to racing around at the time
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To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
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Trout Recreant
Public Enemy No. 1
Join date: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 4,873
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01-23-2008 13:04
From: Cherry Czervik If I wanted to be included would I make an effort to join in and curry favour? No. You would just make an effort to join - not the mysterious non-existent clique, just join in the fun. If you wanted to show up when people are hanging out you would be welcome. If you want to IM someone, do it. I'd welcome a conversation with you, as would, I'm guessing, most people here. You're an interesting person. At any rate, nobody has ever expected anyone to curry favor. I've argued with just about everyone here when I thought they were wrong, and I'm still their friend. I haven't pretended to be anyone I'm not. Say what you believe. Don't expect me not to say what I believe. Anyone who thinks they need to brownnose to get friends is misguided.
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From: Jerboa Haystack
A Trout Rating (tm) is something to cherish. To flaunt and be proud of. It is something all women should aspire to obtain!
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Har Fairweather
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,320
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01-23-2008 13:08
From: Ricardo Harris First off, don't stutter it's not becoming.
Second:
What choice do you have in these forums but to write. Whereas in sl itself while you can write and express yourself its not even close to how it is when spoken. This is the difference here and there. I had said typing is flat and cold which it is for relationships in sl but not for the forums as it doesn't matter here. Most thoughts are just that, cold and flat responses in here and people can often gauge what and how you're feeling when you respond in here. At least most can anyway. Aw, Ricardo, you're a bright guy. And I sympathize with the problems you have had with ultra-griefers. And I kinda like you, I actually do. But please, don't be a troll, okay? I think you're a better person than that, and you are definitely a potentially far greater contributor to this forum than that. |
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Stormy Dyrssen
Out of the loop
Join date: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 832
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01-23-2008 13:09
From: Trout Recreant Anyone who thinks they need to brownnose to get friends is misguided. Nah, I don't have to brownnose to get friends, but I might have to pay to. |
