Broadly offending content ~ what is it for *you*?

It's worse than that, Jim!

Pep (LL would have to ban everyone who wasn't disdainful of the correct use of apostrophes. Adult, Mature *or* PG!)

Well, you are allowed clean non-violent /non-public/ sex in mature areas. So again, not so far from what you're talking about. Anyway, I don't want to get too deep into defending LL again. Just like certain deviant sexual fetishes it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I mean on the net. Real life is all together a different matter. It's full of control freaks trying to stop everything.



It's just sex really, not all of those are necessarily violent.

Nope. You can be as dirty and violent as you want, so long as there's a pointless prim wall in the way and it's not advertised... whatever that means. If you're scrolling the map and your mouse-button bounces you can still find yourself in the middle of a scat-vore orgy.

And your posts are an example of valuable content in a non-offending manner?

I'll be happy to go back and give very clear and precise examples of what I find offensive....none of which is "content" on a computer screen, as most have described.....but rather offensive human behavior.

But you already got my point....or you wouldn't be here.

One question here I have, that's not answered, and probably can't be. Broadly offensive? To which community, and how broad? That's something I think LL is seriously overlooking when they talk about "the community." There are, in fact, different communities in SL, not one homogenous group of people. Furries have a vastly different viewpoint than Goreans. BDSM folks are different from the steampunk crowd. Kite fliers are a different community than fashionistas. ad nauseum.

So trying to define "the community" and just who it is, is the first step. One which I believe must recognize the fact that vore, Dolcett fantasies, rape fantasies, Gor, etc., are by their very nature NOT broadly offensive to the community, there are far too many people in "sub communities" who practice exactly those things in SL. Keep them out of the welcome areas, sure, I'm all for that, but that doesn't mean we have to form concentration camps for everything that Sally Homebound has never been exposed to and would choke on.

That having been said, in my opinion there is only one thing that is broadly offensive, truly: Somebody's belief that their right to be kept away from things they don't like trumps somebody else's right to engage in practices that person doesn't like, and therefore can demand that such activities be moved to a concentration camp even though they don't visit the locations where those activities take place in the first place.

Yeh, consensual acts between adults been deemed offensive and eventually outlawed is going a bit far.

I think the word 'broadly' has been largely overlooked in this context.

It does not mean what offends you, it means what offends a broad section of SL residents. It will be interesting to see just how many regions and avatars relocated to the new Adult Continent, how many sims choose a mature rating, and how many a PG rating.

It may not give a precise breakdown of the activities and leanings of SL Residents, but at least an indication.

Rock

*drums his fingers and waits for some sort of constructive input from Mickey . . . *

Pep (I have already contributed by explaining my own position, as well as pointing out the underlying flaw which prevents this thread from being anything but entertainment.)

It's not that I find the pictures offensive, it's the fact they are portrayed in the wrong place, I view public areas in SL as similar standards to Public areas in RL, unless of course SL as a whole is supposed to be all adult rated Porntopia in which case we might as well ditch all the PG rated sims and make every sim mature or adult.

I don't mind the saucy side of SL at all, I will quite happily visit the Adult continnt, not all of it would be to my liking but it's all in the right place to do so.

I wonder how many people would be offended by pictures on a screen depicting a 40yo raping a 1yo baby? I know I am, pixels and adult users or not, somethings are just plain wrong.

There are other people wanting this segregation, but many are just too one-eyed to see them, it's also got a lot of Govco, LL push to it anyway, we're not going to be able to stop those wheels, let them disneyfy the mainland, realistically 90% of groundlevel stuff is G rated anyway, just houses, roads, beaches, dance clubs and shops.
LL have already said on many occassions they aren't going to ban every person who does the wildthing in their private skybox. It's aimed at cleaning up the mainland for corporations, and I suspect teens aometime in the next couple of years, many people would love to be able to teach their kids to build and script in SL.

The silent majority?

Pep (How will we ever know if it offends them, then?)

My point was that all of these things that I find offensive are PRETEND in Second Life. Sure, I find Dolcett to be highly offensive in RL (I actually hope it doesn't truly exist) but in SL? It's an avatar on a spit. Sure I find Chinese foot binding to be highly offensive in RL. In SL? Don't we ALL torture our feet to fit into size 0 shoes? So what?

LL should have seen the interest in virtual sex right at the start, and segregated Mature from PG sims into their own continents. Mixing the two was just plain stupid, although I can see that when you start with 1 sim (Da Boom), then add 5 more, and a few more after that, you might not even CONCEIVE of entire continents filled with Mature content.

I think I'd be happier if LL gave up on this Zindra continent, and separated the continents into PG and Mature. We're all over 18 here.

And I would bet good money that somebody who wants the very changes that are taking place, in order to preserve their sterile, black-and-white view of Pleasantville forever, by forcing those who would introduce colors and fire to their predicatable world, is Public Enemy #1 if people would be honest with themselves in determining what is most offensive to the broadest section of SL residents legally allowed to be on the main grid: THE ADULTS.

This has been my view all along. I have already stated that I have not found anything in SL to be offensive and cannot think of anything that would be offensive to me inworld.

Not THAT is funny!

To be honest, I've only seen them in sex places, I don't see them in furniture or build shops or areas that aren't sexual.

Raping babies is already against the rules, real life and net wide. I don't think anyone against the banning od sex is asking to to have a right to child rape.

And even on that one, I'll bet many folks have different definitions of what they consider to be 'violence'.

/me points up.

What HE said. (Sorry Argent, hope this doesn't ruin your street cred . . .)

To repeat what I said earlier: one can't possibly render SL inoffensive to everyone, nor should one try.

That said, it's basic courtesy not to deliberately offend people. It is my "right" to swear in public, but I don't do so around people whom I know will be offended by it. Partitioning content (NOT "exiling" it) seems to me one way of doing this, albeit a way that is certainly potentially fraught.

What I would most like to see, and what the LL plan clearly does NOT do, is a distinction made between depictions of consensual sex, and representations of nonconsensual or violent sex. (And before people jump all over me, please note that I said REPRESENTATIONS . . . I am not claiming that a rape sim or dolcett animation is REALLY nonconsensual or violent.)

There is no difference between non consensual and consensual online, they are all consensual, how ever you phrase it. Note the off button on your Sl or internet

Again, please?

Pep (In English perhaps, this time?)

Not that I've noticed anyway, but they could use the same "it's only pixels, it's not real" argument.

That gets into a very extreme bone of contention: Ageplay. For one thing ageplay involving extremely young children, 8 years old, 4 years old, 12 months old, etc., yeah, I'm very much against it. However, the current SL definition of ageplay as being any under 18 avatar, is way wrong. Here's why:

When you signed up to create an avatar in SL, you entered into a legally binding contract with Linden Lab. Assuming that you're old enough to enter into such a contract in the first place; if you're not, you're already a criminal. So let's deal with those left who are here legally. You are bound, by this contract, to obey THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES and those of whatever jurisdiction/country you actually live in. Now there are some places in the world, where it is illegal for you to engage in ageplay fantasies, such as having sex with an adult who's pretending to be 16 years old. If you live in one of those places, don't do it. You're breaking the law otherwise. That will mean the ageplay rules in SL do apply to some of us. That excludes another portion of the population, obviously.

But there are places where it is legal. Such as in the United States. In fact in the United States, whether you personally agree with it or not, it is legal to draw sex acts between adults and minors, provided no real minors were ever involved in such acts. The United States Supreme Court has upheld this at the federal level (if you need actual citations to publicly available documents backing this up I'll have to research it). So as long as the avatars in question are run by real adults behind the keyboards who are of legal age, and all participants in such an activity are in jurisdictions where it is legal, there's nothing at all wrong with ageplay as long as it doesn't go too far.

Nobody would ever condone an adult playing a baby too young to even talk, I'm sure, but what about the adult woman pretending to be a 16 year old nubile girl? Happens all the time in RL and that's legal, so it should be allowed in SL too since it is in fact legal according to the laws that all SL users are required to obey, barring local laws that override that for selected users. That brings things back around to the question of personal responsibility, which is really critical to the whole mess.

If you have a problem with something people are engaged in, or it's not legal where you live, LEAVE. That is an actual vaild adult response to situations you may find offensive. Should more people practice that there'd be a whole lot less uproar going on right now over changes being forced on everybody, and this WILL impact everybody, negatively, even people who stay in PG sims and live PG lives in SL.

Ian, is it just FUN to deliberately misrepresent or misunderstand me?

If you can't see a distinction between a depiction of consensual sex, and one that depicts violent sex, then I fear for you and your sex partners.

A animation depicting vanilla sex, and another depicting rape are, in all probability, BOTH consensual, in the sense that both partners have agreed to both. But the rape animation DEPICTS an act that is violent and nonconsensual.

Clear enough?

So you don't think Child rape was broadly offensive to the community?

They were forced to draw a line in the sand, and they did it at 18, Avatars can get tricky to pin ages to unless they state it in their profile, make that age 16 and you will have people engaging with Avatars that are obviously under that age, but can't be proven, and the number of places permiting sex between 14 yo's is rather small in number.

Argent? Street cred?