Welcome to Second Citizen?

Conversely, why do you all care so much that you must start multiple threads about how much we suck? (not you personally Lo -- the general you)
I mean, there's only about a two dozen or so other boards. If you don't like us, why not just go there and have done with it? Whats with having to come to the official LL boards and bashing SC? hmmmm?

BTW, did I mention we have llamas?

Maybe we have a different view of what "bashing something" is. Where was SC bashed in this thread, specifically? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see a bashing going on. What I do see is a number of people saying that they find SC to be immature and/or crass.

Why BB doesn't go and post on SC are his reasons alone, and he hasn't shared them with me. However, in the original incident that has been referred to here, he said "I haven't posted there since Wednesday," when in fact, he hadn't posted since Friday. I took that as a simple mistake (some of us can't remember what we had for lunch two days ago). But others took this as a prime example of BB's cowardice, lying nature and proof, I suppose, of his goat fuckery. No expense was spared in trashing him for being off by two days on the last time he posted. Gosh, I absolutely can't imagine why he wouldn't go back. Can you?

Again, the people who are most active in SC have molded it into a place they like, and that is fine. They should also be aware by now that the place they made is not a place that appeals to many people. So what? You're happy with it, fine. And if someone else isn't, fine. Just don't get all pissy when they have the gall to say so. You folks at SC can get along just fine without our approval.

I have participated in Second Citizen for a very long time, and I like the site and fully support it - I think there is room for a wide variety of different forum types and tones. What I am struck by, however, is how defensive some people from SC are getting over people expressing an opinion, and where they expressed it. People are free to post here, at SC, or anywhere else they want - why should they have to come back to a place they don't like to express why they don't like it? People who talk about freedom are often the first ones to try to limit it when they don't agree with something.

scared of being bitchslapped? I don't really care what some people on the internet think about me. Now I don't like the atmoshpere created by the SC forums, so I don't go there anymore. I bet there are threads about me already, I don't really care. However I am not going to go drive up the post count on a forum that I dislike.

Do you tell the chef at a restaurant that you don't like the food? Do you complain to the manager when the service is bad? No you just don't go back there. You vote with your wallet, as do I. (wallet = patronage)

Lets stick the restaurant example, when you eat in a bad restaurant you generally tell your friends that it was bad, its called relaying the experience, yet when I do that about your SC forums I am some evil person?

I wouldn't say so much that I like or don't like you. Your comments to me a few pages back, however, were rather sad and pathetic and I'd lie if I said I wouldn't keep that in mind if we ever interact again in the future.

Its not that we need your approval. I'm actually kind of happy to be a part of a group you don't approve of

However.....

There are people who don't go to, say, SL Universe. There are no threads on this or any board that I know of bashing SL Universe. There's how many other 3rd party boards out there? But out of all of them, SC was singled out as a place where the denizens are immature and whatever else we are. No other board was bashed. Just us.

So like whats the big deal? You ask why we feel the need to come here and defend ourselves? Let me turn that around on ya and ask why you need to come here and bash us? Why bring us up at all? So you don't approve of us - cool! Go elsewhere -- no one is stopping you. But why stop on the way to point us out and call us names? Then to say afterwards that its not a big deal, you aren't bashing us, and we shoudln't defend ourselves is a bit disingenuous if you ask me.

Stratics gets bashed alot, but I guess that slipped your mind?

And.. they have ME! I give free stuff to the group all the time!

Not sure why you'd attach so much importance to my opinion, but OK.



Again, I do not see bashing. I see people expressing opinions about SC here, even if they are negative.

I think calling someone goatfucker and telling someone what to do with feminine hygiene products to be more like bashing.



Why do I give a damn? Because I hate seeing people being ganged up on, as happens all too often at SC. And as you prepare to accuse me of "ganging up" on SC, please provide me with an example of such.

Vivianne,

I think the reason you are finding SC singled out is because of the nature of what is causing some people to not like it. You can't possibly be as oblivious to that as you are acting. For example, the fucktard avatar thing turns off some people and they find it offensive. When the MadamG death threat/rape poll thing popped up, the lack of any moderation of it also turned off people. The tone of the forums is also very combative - the language, the aggressiveness of the posters, etc. I think people are posting about it more out of surprise that anything else. They are not used to an unmoderated free for all. The publicity certainly doesn't hurt SC - people are going to check it out to see if it is really as bad as some people claim, and they will either decide yeah it is and move on, or they will like what they see and stay.

PS - Stratics is bashed all the time too, for being the opposite extreme - people respond to extremes.

Aren't I like the principle Stratics basher though? And besides Stratics is a) kinda corporate; b) has a long history of suckage and c) is headed by Lewis who pimps it out at every opportunity. I mean most posts against Stratics are made in response to Lewis posting how wonderful it is. Conversely, we aren't here saying SC is wonderful at every opportunity but people out of the blue come on over and bash us here. And start threads with the direct intention of bashing us. So like, the two scenarios are kinda different y'know?

maybe some of these threads are in response to people "pimping out" SC? it does happen you know. Also isn't SC the most populated third party forum? doesn't size create more enemies? "the tallest tree is the first to be cut"

Actually, I really don't see a difference at all. Other than the corporate backing, but I don't see why that should matter at all.

Well technically its just Lewis whoring himself out to Stratics that gets bashed.............

(got that from SC, what more do you need? )

I know why people don't like it. I'm cool with that. Its not for everyone and I can respect that. I'm not oblivious to that at all.

I have a long hate-affair with Stratics and its being run by Lewis whom I don't care for either so its a double whammy. Still, you don't see me starting threads about how much Stratics is the suxxor. Now I'll respond to Lewis when he pimps it out -- as he does at every friggin opportunity -- I swear he's worse than me and llamas -- but I don't think I've ever started a thread specifically to bash Stratics. Really if Lewis would quit pimping it I'd probably forget it was there.

That's what I don't understand. Why take the time to come here and say how much we suck? Why not just move on? And then you people like Lorelie saying "well why do you all show up to defend your board" and acting like we haven't been insulted at all. Which is bullshit.

Also the MadameG thing was hardly our fault. We don't know who that guy is and we really didn't care -- evidenced by the lack of attention we gave his threads. You'll notice that he moved on mighty quick when we failed to respond to his troll.
But the no moderation thing works both ways. Someone can come to SC and post that Mulch sucks donkey dicks and we won't do a thing about it other than pop some popcorn and sit back to enjoy the show. I'm guessing Mulch might have a few choice words ::

So yeah -- not liking us. Completely understandable. Going to the LL official boards to tell everyone we are the suck? Hello? What the hell is this -- grade school? Move on, go somewhere you like, be happy and llamaless.

A chair hurling through the air?

But this, and other threads, are not us pimping out the site. This is someone -- hell I don't even recognize the OPs name -- who obviously read the site and didn't like it and then, instead of moving on, came here to specifically bash us.


I thought size was sposed to be good!

Do you really equate someone saying "I don't like X" to bashing?

And if you go back and look at the OP, it says, "I worry about how they must treat their users."

I'd hardly call that bashing. Where's that famous thick SC skin?

But dont most people in love with there trees defend them to keep the loggers out of their forest?

As Cristiano stated earlier its the extreme nature of SC that is frightening to people but why not just ignore the place and leave it at that. Yes you have the right to express yourself but why not say it more tactful? (I know pot and kettle) If somebody asks say it was a conflict of interest not those people over there are immature bunch of twits. Those statements are troll bait waiting to happen and guess what when you say something about somewhere people are members your going to get responed to, either positive or negative.

Wrong.

Stratics is not even "kinda corporate", it's a huge, professional site, highly respected and well known as the largest multi-game MMORPG community site on the internet. Because of its size and traffic, it takes adverts for other online games, which may well be of interest to the average gamer. Granted, SL does not attract 'average gamers' but considering that SC has a "WoW" guild forum, there's a comparison there. Also, for a small fee of just a couple of dollars a month, you can remove the adverts. Big deal.

Stratics does not have a "long history of suckage", because if it did it wouldn't have grown to be what it is. Some of you may have negative experience from the TSO forums - possibly because you couldn't follow the few rules - but remember that was more sanitised because it was the official TSO forums, and directed by EA, rather than the community.

I do not "run" Stratics Second Life. I have a managerial responsibility, but I am not in overall control of the forum. As a team, we talk sure, but I do not make the final decisions when it comes to policy changes. Our recent change - of the profanity filter being user-controlled rather than forum-wide was voted FOR by me, even though personally I would rather leave it in its place, because I know the community would prefer it that way. Putting the needs of the many above my individual considerations, or something like that.

You also got it wrong that I "pimp" Stratics at every opportunity. Most comments against Stratics are not in response to my posts - many of my posts are in response to comments against Stratics - just like this thread. Many of the posts against Stratics are actually attacks against me, because people are unable to separate the contents of a post from the name of the person posting it.

One of the two posts on SC today was starting a discussion about the sudden outage - and letting you know; there was nothing on SC about the outage, and Stratics reported it 5 minutes before Linden Lab posted it on the official blog. As a note of the prejudice on SC, my thread recieved just a few posts, and another post started later on the same subject received 80+ replies.

The funniest thing about "Stratics Bashers" is those most vocally against it have probably never even bothered to have a look and contribute to the forum, but are simply basing their opinions on either second hand or out of date irrelevant information.

Am I going to defend Stratics every time someone bashes it? Damn straight I am. We are all working very hard to establish ourselves, I am personally contributing 2000 sq m of tier out of my own pocket to host our Headquarters (which, incidently, was one of the Ravenglass Picks this week) because I believe in Stratics, and the quality it represents, and wish to give that back to the community with the removal of the 'official forums' as a credible, fair, safe environment for people to post in.

Lewis

Hey, you're not so bad after all.

eta: was said in response to the flying chair photo

I find myself in an odd position. I am known to post to Second Citizen on occasion but I'm a bit of a goofball honestly and aim to have playful fun with the folks there. I also run yaslf which I started to create a safe harbor for those who don't like getting smacked across the face with offensive language quite so regularly. We're trying to be friendly and fun without some of the outright hostility and cussing, though strong language isn't barred.