Rates go bye bye

Could you elaborate Shadow?

I am genuinely interested in what is going to happen with the economy in 5 months as a result of these changes. Any estimation on what percentage of sales will be affected? What industries will be the hardest hit? What additional causes that I haven't mentioned or failed to see?

rates never mattered anyway.

sorry to barge in on the parade,

but when was the last time you looked at someone's rates before talking to them?

I imagine that a lot of the ego-centric who built the foundations of their experience in SL solely on rates would be a little shaken...

but come on peeps. I don't think SL would change one bit if the rating system was taken out entirely.

That is possible, but most new players will view SL as a 'game'. In that light, they will also probably be really hesitant to pay 30 or 40 dollars on GOM to buy things in game as a result. That is of course a guess and I don't know how accurate it is to say that. But, I think it will hold true in a lot of cases.

Jessica

I am very new to Second Life, first Post ever

I think SL is a SnowBall Effect, as it becomes more popular they will make it harder to make money.. thus forcing it to expand and keep rolling. Buying Linden Online will only Speed that up.

Otherwise it becomes STATIC and the Economy Stagnates.. the Same REason for Pop Culture in RL.

It also Smacks Of the Bait And Switch... Once your in... We'll change the Prices

Well there it is... my two cents...

Welcome to the forums Evad I'm curious how you feel it's a bait and switch. In what way do you feel it was misrepresented? Is it possible that you just expected it to be something else based on other MMOs that you've had experience with, or do you feel that SL is genuinely marketed as being something other than what it is?

Jessica in your summation you pointed out Clubs being a large factor on the clothing industry and why people bought clothing. Unfortunately this isnt true as Chip and I have been making clothing for quite some time before clubs really existed.

So yes they will be affected by slightly slower sales if we do not lower our prices.

Yet to combat that with LL doing this with the rates the L$ will most assuredly go up now as a Linden $ will hold more value on GOM or IGE as time goes on.(please note I left Anshe.com off due to never having used her site no offence intended.)

To spin off Chips analogy of the bowling lane that will be a good part of what people in SL will learn to expect. Kind of the premise of "There" but with a significant twist that everyone can eventually become a creator.

Clubs persey were important in thier time but they are like any other dinosaur and are slowing being faded out by the cliche fad that many were. Just like RL clubs they come and go rather quickly. Those that survive are going to be from hard work and an enthusiastic effort by the club owners. This means if they do charge for a cover they are going to have to provide "Something" whether it be free money/clothes/music what have you they will have to provide a wanted service to continue.

Things that are mainstays that have always been and always will be. Texturers/Clothiers/Scriptors and builders. They have always existed and always will. Their prices will fluxuate from time to time based on change but will remain a stable environment to work within.

So even with the "Land" thing of the past still on the down hill incline this was but one more nail in that coffin on profit for "Supposed" Land Barons. But this wont last long either. With the School year comming to a close I forsee a big push on enrollment in SL over the summer. With land prices down right now it would be a virtual land rush for people comming in if over the next 3-5 months as the prices are forced even lower with this rate adjustment. Again at the same time I forsee the Linden going up on GOM and IGE.

In other words the linden may seem devalued now because of this change but to be honest this whole thing was a shot in the arm to the economy.

Unfortunately the ones that will profit most from this shot in the arm right now will be the rate mongers. The ones that were nearly untouched by the 6month decline will recieve more lindens at a much higher value than they are right now over the next 6 months thus having more buying power.

But we are talking a whole economy here and to much to delve into with one question on the forums. These topics I mentioned barely scratch the surface as a whole and to try to ferrit out every nook and cranny of whats going to happen would boggle most minds.

The thing is Trends lead the way most of the time. Clubs were a trend, Malls were a trend but eventually the ones that succeed at it will rise above thier peers and become the most well known. Its the nature of the beast and will continue to be so.

The question is now whats the next big trend?

Shadow

btw, if anyone else wants me to diffuse a situation by triple negging them and making fun of them for days, just give me a PM or IM. I'm available for weddings and parties too.

Currently:

+136/-3
+145/-3
+87/-3
+192/-5

I Don't know what my old ones were but I did used to have liek *cough* neg 7 in all of em *cough* And I had like +200 for behavior =(

There are many very talented builders, creators, artists, designers in SL who go unnoticed. I think SL lost its best builder when Azrazael Maracas cancelled his account, and Az was never in the top 10.

Now on the other hand, top 10 Mari also makes a mean sphere prim... XXXOOO love you Mari

She can make a sphere now? Well it's progress I guess.

sphere technology.... uh... thats that round thingy... right??

yus i have now mastered that. or.. well i made a round thingy and... math is hard!!

tee hee.

(fluffs her hair and smiles sappily)

so sayeth:

Marilyn

Don't worry about it, you're three times a better builder than me, and five times better than Lordfly. You must be doing something right. Maybe it's the perfection of the sphere. I dunno.

Using the term build loosely... Mari is definately an artist with the round prim.

ahem... my dear surreal, that was not a prim.

so sayeth:

Marilyn

Ok, so this is how the ratings change has affected me...I used to get about $L 750 a week now I only get $550. Guess I won't be buying as much as before.

Guess I need a SL job...anyone hiring??

I'll glady admit to being a rate whore . Though it wasn't for a stipend boost. I just liked HIGH numbers . It was actually something i'd do religiously when late/early in the day and me being overtired/bored. I'd probably take my rates into more consideration if the rating system wasn't FLAWED.

The fact is, SL is something like no other, and therefor it's hard to tell what future awaits it. SL is gradually changing but also expanding and growing into the new. The rating system may have worked the way it was intended to for it's time, back in the "oldbie" days, but like i've said, SL is changing in many ways, and it's hard to create something like the "rate system" to be so flexible with such a creation as is Second Life.

The Rate System was flawed. Out with the old, in with the new.

I'm pleasant with the L$25 per rate. This hasn't rendered me to the state of not wanting to rate someone. It's caused me to take my rate into consideration, and feel good overall when I give that rate out. It has also ceased my rate-whoring/boredom behaviour . The Linden's change in the rate's L$ price gave meaning to my rates, and for that, I salute them!

And for a final word: for those who state they gave out their rates to benefit the individuals they've rated by making them "feel" better, inspiration, etc etc, but then demand a refund because they feel it was all a waste because of the rate decay, and rate price increase, just does NOT add up. There are obviously shadowed motives at work. If your rate made that certain individual feel better, inspired, whatever, then it was NOT in vain. Your desired outcome has been achieved, and it's as simple as that. They're just digits, for crying out loud. Forged digits via a flawed system, might I add.

Magnum, I understand if you enjoyed giving out your rates because it made the others you rated feel better. Firstly, your desired goal was still achieved. Secondly, the fact remains, overall, the system was being abused, and in it's entirety, it was flawed. The Lindens will bring us something better, no doubt. Second Life is destined for amazing things, but with that, it takes time, and many a change.

Second Life cannot become the Metaverse intended nor take over the world if it constantly remains the same. I say BRING ON THE DECAY. BRING ON THE CHANGE.

Peek-a-Boo!

<sigh... to post or not to post..... what the hell..>

Looking through this long thread, I see a lot of hard, emotional feelings towards the "Rate Whore" camp, that Shadow well described.

I doubt I can do it - but I'd like to clear up a misconception, at least speaking from my own experience in my own Journey with SL. I'm posting this because... if you're going to hate a group of people, I'd hope you'd seek first to understand...


I joined SL on June 3rd '04... which if the metric of being a Midbie is being before 1.5, I guess I made the Midbie cut by a matter of weeks.

When I started as a newbie, I had absolutely zero scripting, texturing or modding skills. I was intrigued by SL, and found it refreshing from the previous games I'd played.

I gravitated to the club and casino scene as a newbie, primarily for two reasons:

1. I had a basic account, and had no clue how to make money. Gambling, and going to Club events... paid.... well. The lag pissed me off... and the overt sleeze & sex kinda turned me off... but my newbie self tolerated it if the event paid well enough.

2. I enjoy interacting with people - and I tend to do it better online than I do in RL. Even playing games like EQ or DAOC, I found myself getting more enjoyment of the social interaction & comaradery than the actual gameplay.

One of the first "lessons" I learned in going to clubs, was about rating. Being a clueless newbie, I entered the old Club Elite - and got rated. Over, and over again. I didn't really understand what rates were at the time - and my lack of "rating back" was met by strong heckling. From that experience, I summized that "rating" must be some social custom within SL, and if you were rated, it must be a common courtesy to rate back.

(Granted - now in Feb of '05, things are in a much different perspective.)

As time went on, I went with the system as I understood it. As far as I knew, ratings were just a way of saying "Hi - good to meet you" to someone. People that gave +3 on their rates were considered "extra generous". Months passed, and I even found myself responding to newbie questions of what rates were by saying "If someone rates you, the 'social norm' in SL is to rate them back equally".

My motivation here had nothing to do with greed... thinking i'm special... gaming the system... nothing like that. I had just been 'taught' that this is how ratings worked. Nowhere in the CS or SL documentation did it describe, in detail, what ratings were supposed to mean. The most of any rating rule I was aware of, was that "organized rating is not allowed". I thought to myself - ok - i guess that explains why people don't have "rating" events. I assumed that rating was meant as a tool to get people to interact with one another.

In time, I had learned to script & build on a rudementary level, got my feet wet with Photoshop & Poser. Things I'd never have had a reason to learn if it wern't for SL.

I opened a club in August, and freely rated people as a greeting, never thinking anything of it. My intention was to make a friendly place that helped other newbies. I guess all I ended up doing was help propegate the same misconceptions about rates that I held.

It wasn't until around September/October... that I found the general forums. As I read over the coming months... I began to see the controversy over ratings, and found the whole thing confusing. For all this time, I was under one impression - and now this other set of players, who had been around longer than I have... but still never met - felt that ratings had a much different meaning than I did. I began to realize the rating system as a whole was flawed.

In fact, I even posted on it here:
/120/53/32612/2.html#post339443


So...Were there people out there that were 'gaming the ratings'? Hell yes. But from my experience, a lot of the people that were doing so, did so out of ignorance - not out of some "I'm better than you" kind of mentality. Newbies learn from older players, and so, the "Rate Whore" crop of players - learned from those who were here before them. The cycle continued visciously, until the $25 ratings were introduced.

Now ratings are $25. Nowadays, I only rate if I feel someone does or builds something really special. If someone rates me, I give them a kind "Thank You"... but don't automatically rate back. Its not that I can't afford to rate... its just, given what I know today, I understand better what ratings were intended to mean, and should mean. The new players coming in will learn this custom as well.

I understand where older players are coming from on being bitter about how ratings turned out. But in my heart, I know I certainly didn't participate in such a thing to try and intentionally game the system. If anything deserves someones ire, it should be the smaller group of real rate whores who taught the sucesssive newbies, and the flawed system that caused it to begin with. Not an entire generation of SL players who for many of which, were completely out of touch with what ratings were designed for in the first place, because their mentors had failed, and written rules were unclear.

Its too bad LL didn't choose to just wipe all the old ratings. If they did, maybe we wouldn't be seeing these heated debates right now, and the rift that developed between the social and content-creating camps in SL might actually begin to heal.

Travis

everyone stop rating people and just give that person the 25L$ insteed. The hell with the rating system...

I guess I'm lucky. I only lost about a third of my positive ratings, but most of my negs.

1769 > 1115
1576 > 1022
856 > 573
3688 > 2394

-5 > -2
-5 > -1
-5 > -1
-18 > -9

I am not a Rate Whore. Yet I was attacked because I thought it would be nice to give newbies a plesant experience when they first got in world. I hardly ever got rated at clubs (I guess I went to the wrong ones).

But I do not see the rift healing until apologies are made. I have done nothing wrong.

But the beating I got in these forums means I will not post a new topic here again.

Now you watch... Some idoit will cheer at this. Those who understand me know where I am coming from.

Meep.

Can't we all just get along?

I barely show up here (In SL) any more... World of Warcraft I've found myelf enjoying more and more... and SL less and less...

*ponders moving his stuff into Mochastyle, and selling off his land, so he can go back to basic...*

Its such a joke..1st the Lindens cut our stipends in half..then to add insult to injury they jack up the prices of ratings from L$1 to L$25. Now to take away ratings that I earned its totally off the mark. They say its supposed to be ''fair''. How is it fair to penalize me for being here longer then someone else??? You know they won't re-imburse for the lost ratings. Its just another way to reduce stipends so they don't have to pay out. If they want to make it ''fair'' give me back my ratings and reduce the cost to rate back to L$1. Sinse when have the Lindens ever been concerned with fair???? Long as people pay their money to play the game..they couldn't care less.

Huh? Excuse me? Stipends cut in half? Where did you hear this? The stipend has not been touched since v1.2

Rating bonus (if that's what you're refering to) is intended as an incentive to either behave well, look good or build well and get rewarded for doing so. Anyone with high rates due to 'farming' or club rate parties is simply taking bonus money from the mouths of those that truely deserve it for their efforts.