I don.t get it, and they certainly don't

I understand what you wrote - perhaps you need English lessons? I chose what, when and where to post my opinions. My reasons are my own. It seemed that Prokofy was being ganged up on by a clique - hence, the expression of my opinion at the time appeared relevant to me.

That is exactly opposite of what you posted --- go look it up again. I would not argue with this sequence - and it IS what I did. I gathered information using another avatar (which was not created to do so, I was playing my alt). I interpreted my experiences as that alt. I formed a conclusion. I expressed that conclusion as Korg here in the forums.

I didn't invite anyone to do anything. I had a pretty good idea that most people would do what most people do - that is, read and evaluate the words written. In your case, it seems to me (and I might be wrong, but I would take bets against it) that you are allowing a bias to color your interpretation of my written words. Hence, I will not be given the benefit of the doubt and you will take anything I say in a negative vein. Cool beans. I can live with that.

Apparently I did. You admitted you chose the wrong word.
As for what you see in my posts, check what I wrote above. You may be seeing what you want to see, not necessarily what is actually there. I never mentioned anything about a conspiracy. I have specifically used the word "clique". If you don't know what it means, look it up.

Ok, you asked for it.



You have no idea what newbies want.



In reality you began this by saying:



Once again, you said it, not me. I agreed with you as a possible solution.



That's just yet another one of your dillusions.

Which brings me to this quote:



Me bullying? Intimidating? Name Calling? Duh? Here are your own words to chew on:
















How in the hell do you ever expect to gain any support and for your ideals? You are wholly disfunctional at mutual respect and civil decorum. 10 pages of threads which should have died, but yet you manage to spout off something to irk someone and follow up with your childish last word.

People who have expressed views in conflict with those of Prokofy within this thread, their join dates and some breakdowns:

Dec. '02 - 1
Apr. '03 - 1
May '03 - 3
Jun. '03 - 1
Jul. '03 - 1
Aug. '03 - 2
Sep. '03 - 1
Nov. '03 - 1
Dec. '03 - 1

Total for 13 month+ period, 12.

Jan. '04 - 1
Mar. '04 - 1
Apr. '04 - 1
May '04 - 3
Jun. '04 - 1
Aug. '04 - 2
Sep. '04 - 1
Oct. '04 - 3
Nov. '04 - 1
Dec. '04 - 1

Total for 12 month period, 15.

Now, I am dumbfounded that someone could construe this as a orchestrated cliquish attack of the "olbies", especially given the fact that those joining in the last year outnumber those who joined from Dec. '03 and all the way back to the Alpha and Closed Beta days which goes a lot farther back than some of you may realize, by 3 people.

Nothing more than the off kilter musings of discontented people in my book.

These numbers are nothing more than the fabrications of an unabashed, oldbie griefer! Viva la nuevo blood, or something. (I guess 1 semester of Spanish when I was 12 didn't really sink in, did it?)

I guess it's too late for you to ever understand that because someone doesn't agree with and/or understand your points that they need reading lessons, english lessons, etc. It's precisely this type of rhetoric that causes some of us to roll their eyes when reading your posts. It's arrogant and elitist. It's also ironic because you profess to agree with Prokovy's claims of the olbies acting like they are "elite".

It is not the opposite of the point I was trying to make. In my haste whilst preparing dinner I chose the wrong term, however my intent was as I pointed out in my clarification. If you refuse to acknowledge that and insist on grasping at straws (in the form of dwelling upon a mistake in terminology which I am admitting to) to support your argument it just serves to demonstrate further the weakness of your argument.

In other words you presumed to assume, something you keep accusing others of.
All past incidents aside, I simply believe that you are mistaken about the "cliquish" "ganging up" that you claim is going on here. It has nothing to do with any bias. You can take that or leave it, I really don't care.

You didn't need to name anyone, you were speaking of those who you claimed were "ganging" up on Prokofy.


Yes I admitted that I used the wrong word, yet you continue to hammer on the fact that I did. Unlike you, I can admit when I make a mistake. That says quite a bit that you continue in that vein after I clarified, and chose to completely disregard any other points or counter-points. I see the logic I was using as sound, and regret that I chose the wrong method of delivery. So sue me. I am human.

I've seen it. Would I put it in *MY* backyard? No, it would distract people from the 60m tall giant garden gnome with functioning penis fountain. Regardless, I've had people put up builds that I didn't particularly like near me. But here is the way I look at it. I have 4 choices. 1) Offer to buy the land. 2) Deal with it and wait until they move or change the build (builds and property ownership in SL seem to change with great frequency). 3) If it REALLY REALLY *REALLY* makes my SL life unbearable I can move. 4) In the case of land modifications like blocking up waterways and such I've asked *VERY POLITELY* if the person would consider making a small change to keep water access open...but I do that knowing they don't have to do it or have any sort of "ethical obligation" to make any changes I request. Just like in real life, "you pays your money, you takes your chances". Alot of people who buy homes in RL don't live in zoned or deed-restricted areas. If you buy a house because its next to a really nice victorian style mansion, there is NO guarantee that next month they won't bulldoze it and put in an Stop-n-Go. It happens all the time. Are you going to go back to the person that sold you your house and demand your money back? Good freakin' luck! No, you grumble to yourself and you learn to deal with it...or you move. I'm not, you're not and your customer is not *entitled* to a perfect pleasing view. It's great when you can get it, sometimes its worth paying extra to keep it if and when you can, and it sucks when someone puts up what you think is an eyesore on their land...right in square view of your living room window. If you promised your customer that they would have a pleasing view in all the directions they look for as long as they live there, then you over-promised something that isn't in your power to deliver.





You *REALLY* are obsessed about the King Kong.... You've asked people feelings on the King Kong, and people have answred. Though the point you seem to overlook is it doesn't matter if every single person in SL thinks the it is the most god awful ugly / tacky assembly of prims every crafted in SL. That's totally irrelevent. The person who is displaying it is doing so on their land and it doesn't violate the TOS by being pornographic.




Uhmmm....Noooooooo. I wouldn't be encroaching on anyone's freedom by not talking to them about anything I choose not to talk to them about...or...not talking to them at all. You're right to talk to me end at my right to totally blow you off and ignore you. I'm really not sure where all these rights and entitlements are coming from. First a right to a good view...then a right to engage me in conversation...where will this all end?? A right to change my radio station and play tiddly-winks with *my* kitchen with *my* woman?? I say NAY, no further these ever expanding entitlements!! All that being said, I'll talk to almost anyone about almost anything as long as they're not being an ass. But I reserve the option completely ignore anyone for any reason. That would be rude of course. But unless you're going to create a Right-To-Not-Have-People-Be-Rude-To-You Right I'm not likely to lose much sleep over it. Ok...scratch that...even then, I'd sleep the sleep of the dead. *chuckles*




Er...well...speaking as a "classical" Conservative Republican (uh-oh...NOW I'm in for it *evil grin*) I'd say I don't buy that. I'm a firm believer in classical You-Keep-Your-Nose-Out-of-MY-Business-and-I'll-Keep-Mine-Out-of-Your-Business Conservativism.

Alexin

Beryl,

Your inner core deserves to be feted. Get down with your bad self and have a party. Make sure you include an orgy ball. You can probably borrow one from the Edge.

Take a look in the mirror as you read those words back to yourself. I choose my words VERY carefully - using common meanings and my sentences are worded in a very precise manner. That you seem to be at odds with the opinions expressed in them is far from surprising considering the vehemence with which you have continued to attempt to put the onus of "bad guy" on me in this thread.

You don't like my opinion/you don't agree with it. So what? Does it hurt you in your soul that I disagree with you? If so, thanks for the compliment that I am that important to your self-esteem; on second thought, I am not sure that that is a compliment. Instead it might be, as you have already evidenced, a blame-shifting technique. Nah. You don't seem to be able to construct that strategem properly.... at least not yet.

Me elitist? Which elite is that? Certainly not in SL. Arrogance? Self-confidence is often misconstrued as arrogance. Throw another stone. Go for it.

I figured out what your point was by putting myself in your place - and thus saw just how poorly it was constructed argumentatively. Yet your response here fails to acknowledge that I did cut you that slack, doesn't it? Yeah. It does. I enumerated the process that illustrated I actually agreed with the one semi-lucid thing you have said in this thread - something argumentatively valid (though needing to be reversed to be correct) as opposed to harping on what you actually wrote. But you won't give me that credit. Uh huh. Well, guess what? You still haven't answered... you just bitched.

Did you have fun with that? "presumed to assume" indeed. I took what you said/wrote and analyzed it with intelligence, not mallice aforethought and found it wanting in logic, factual proffer and any atempt at nuetrality. You are so invested in slamming me that you can't see the forest for the trees here.

You "simply believe" that I am "mistaken"? Wow. Finally, a nuetral comment with some clarity. My response to your comment... so what? I'm right. You're wrong. That's that. Want to "fight" some more?

My opinion is mine to express you pompous puss. If I choose to express it in this thread or any other, I have that right until it is locked, I am banned or I lose Internet connectivity. You don't like that opinion/fact, tough.

Uh huh. So you will fill in the blanks and say that I was speaking of any/everyone lined up and posting "against" Prokofy here? Couldn't be that just a few of the posters are actually in one of the cliques I allude to? Right. You can't tell me that you read the responses to him and actually believe there was no ganging up on him here.... honestly, can you?

It couldn't be that cliques DO exist here? It couldn't be that certain people can't take criticism and some friends DO/DID rush to protect one or another from a perceived attack which actually was meaningless in the overall? No... of course, that couldn't possible be it. I could not POSSIBLY have a point - at least partially because I was saying the same thing as Prokofy in this case.

I tongue-in-cheek tweaked you. "So sue me." I am just a meanie.

Your logic is hugely flawed throughout this thread. You respond like a cur being deprived of a direct line to a bitch in heat - without thought. That's too bad. You were funny before; it's becoming sad. As the Crossfire guys said, "C'mon. Be funny."

Oh and one more thing....I now have a profound understanding of why Catherine Cotton would just suddenly start slapping people with a trout in a thread and laughing, instead of responding to the verbose spewings coming at her. This thread has gone about 52 pages too long. Go to Beryl's party for her inner core and move on already, my God.

If you are taking the place of the crossfire guys in this little scenario then you are the bad guy

*throws cheese at everyone and skips of to her magical land of make-believe*

It's ok Korg, you're hypocritical analyses of other's debating skills are nothing short of laughable. A nice device to actually avoid any points or counter-points made.

It's hillarious that you talk about throwing stones, yet you and Prokofy have slung more feces around this thread than the dozens of other posters combined. "Pompous puss" (are you getting angry now? Cuz dem sound like fightin' werds), "cur", whatever "dude". You really are a piece of work. I don't know that I have ever had the (mis)fortune of interacting with a more hypocritical, self-absorbed twerp in my entire life.

It's apparent to me that you don't like LL, SL or most of the the people in it. Why don't you go find a closet to lock yourself in and smash the knob off so you don't have to put yourself through the self imposed agony anymore?

Hurt me in my soul? You couldn't hurt me if you tried. It's a good laugh though, tough guy.

I love the "flawed logic" line too. If it was so "flawed" why do you bother to respond?

Choose your words carefully? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I don't misconstrue arrogance pal, you are the epitome of the word and there is nothing you can say to change that view. Nothing.

So go on with your bad self, claim that you don't debate one day, then claim that others don't know how to debate the next. I don't even need to throw stones, you are throwing them in the mirror and with every attack you further expose yourself as an angry, self loathing person who likes to drag others down into his lonely pit of misery. I am SO envious.

When and if you decide to actually debate and drop the name calling bullshit I might bother with your malarkey again, until then you can steep in your own fecal matter.

LOL I can't, I wasn't invited, it's only for the feted inner core LOL.



I'm stunned that somebody would get this obsessive about a thread and a dispute that they'd go counting dates like this. I don't know about others, but I'm not claiming any sort of gang bang by any group of elite oldbies, in this thread or anywhere else. Identifying a group of inner core feted elite doesn't mean that I believe that feted elite is attacking me or even organized, let alone in this thread. They represent an entrenched class whose values or space have been encroached on by newbies with different values and cultures. That's all. And it's a conflict that I believe you have to name and manage, and obviously these forums aren't a very intelligent place to do this.

There is so much haranguing from everybody about the right to do what I want on my own sim, the idea that you can't buy the view, etc. etc. All I'm saying is this: people tell you to go buy your own sim and you'll be able to do what you want to with it? Well, I"ve done that, and guess what, it's just not true. Because there are 4 others sims on all sides of you where anything goes. The anything-goes culture and angry-beaver hedonism really runs counter to any old-fashioned idea of good-neighborliness. And that's why it's a problem to claim to anyone that if you buy a sim, you get something. You don't. You'd have to buy 4 or 16 sims. But I think you have to start somewhere.

Weedy, I"m not sure where all your venom is coming from -- are these Jade people your bosom buddies? Are you indeed the self-appointed hanging sheriff of SL? All these helpful quotations you've made don't illustrate any personal attacks. There haven't been personal attacks. Believe me, if I made a personal attack, the Lindens would have erased it by now. I've made a pronunciation about a cliquish bunch in game on the forums who send out posses and protect each other like Godfathers. But that's just an utterance of my perception, and it can be debated, and it is not a violation of TOS or ROC.

It seems very, very important for you to prevail and feel you are right in this discussion, and to squash me. OK, you're right. You're important. And you squashed me. Feel better now Weedy? : )

You just haven't been a very good advertisement for your own professed ideals. I don't expect to be gaining any adherents, I'm not trying to lead a commune : )

YOU are stunned? YOU label ME obsessed? After page after page of bad mouthing half-page long diatribes? You two sit here and talk about the pernicious cliques in SL in a thread that has nothing to do with it then? How odd. Why bother to point it out in tirade after name-calling tirade? What is the impetus for these snarling, razor-clawed tirades then? What does this thread have to do with the supposed entrenched olbies fucking over newbies? WHY BRING IT UP if it doesn't pertain to this thread?

For Pete's sake, you reap what you sow man.

Btw, it took me all of 10 minutes with a pen and a calendar to construct and post that list and truth be told, it was more to counter Korg's misguided claims that olbies were ganging up on you within this thread.

You're all full of sh*t. Especially you, Nolan.

And Korg, nobody gives a damn what you think or say.

Peace out, pissants.

Thanks Grimmy. What razor wit you have! Now run along and go play in my house some more while I am offline.

I aim to please and please to aim.

Uh, no, no orgy balls for me. If my husband looked over and saw this going on while I was playing SL, he'd either bust a gut laughing or get really angry; I'm not sure I want to find out which.

Besides, I'd prefer to belong to the fetid inner core, a group dedicated to the appreciation of smelly cheeses. Any newbs who can stand the smell would be welcomed, of course.

Prok is not being an ass (pardon my french). He's strong-minded and very opinionated, which I respect, but he's wrong about certian things and unwilling to change his opinion on them as things currently stand.

The same could be said for most of you in this thread, except for the people calling him an ass (figurativly and in various terms) because he's strong minded, opinionated and forcefull. There are other things that could be said for them, but I might be in violation of certian forum guidelines by saying them.

I might elaborate more when I'm less frustrated and have had more time to seperate out the good points from the crap in this thread. But this "discussion" might be redeemed somewhat if people realized that much, or at least entertained the possibility that they might be wrong. That's part of being rational, IMNSHO.

Oh, perhaps you missed all this:

Yes, the fuck-all attitude is really at a heart of a lot of these disputes. Efforts an initial polite inquiries, efforts to gather information, efforts to suggest alternatives are all greated as "impositions of will" by these hedonistic fuck-you liberals in SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
because of a culture of fuck-you hedonism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
Ulrika's wacky communism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
I wouldn't give any of you smug self-satisfied types the pleasure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
Frankly, there *is* a core of self-important assumed royalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
hectoring, lecturing, know-it-all posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
The hectoring tone you’ve adopted is a good display of the self-[appointed, know-it-all attitude one finds among this core group of old players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
cliquish and observedly insular oldbie network

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
their bias is toward traditional liberalism or if their bias is to the faux-liberal, pedestrian pagan hedonism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
I’ve never seen such a spoiled and feted inner-core
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
technocratic/creative intelligentsia elite anywhere in my life except perhaps for the Soviet Union

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
fetid inner core

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
yes, the smug know-it-all-elite say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
this kind of wise-mentor let-me-tell-you-how-it-has-to-be approach from many of these elite players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
reactionary angery and tribal-defense of your in-group

Like you would know MY ideals? You have no idea what I do in SL.

My "venom" as you choose to call it, is nothing compared to yours. Why is it when you state a point..its simply that, but anyone who has the audacity to question you gets name-called as venomous or communist.....another example of proof that you dish it out but are unable to take it.

I never met Pahora until day before last. She seems like a reasonable and amiable person in all my conversations with her, and they did not include you for the most part. I have spoken to alot of her friends too and they all agree and will attest to her any time.


You ceratinly are paranoid about "oldbie conspiracies" out to get you, but yet you advocate a conspiracy of negativity towards other players. You berate, sterotype and slough off your community mates as communists etc. Are you sure that SL is the right place for you? Does demeaning your game-mates make you happy?

And NO, Im not happy to post here to confront you, but your beligerance and hypocracy is excessive and uncalled for. To me a tyranical zealot is 100x worse than any bad build. Your bad attitude is the problem. That is why this thread is still running and the rope gets longer and the hole gets deeper for you.

I suggest maybe trying PvP games. It may be more suitable for your needs in gaming.

You can't stand a difference of opinion backed by strong words, can you?

/me calls the local emergency room - providing them a heads up that Nolan is about to pop his cork blood-pressure wise.... Yep. Hearse on standby too --- direct to the pauper's section of the cemetary, all expenses already paid.

I'll remember this the next time I'm tempted to blame it on the dog.

As an Erisian my core is golden... Kallisti!

Siggy.

Um, why would any newb want to?

I dunno, this thread isn't about solving any problems. I think you-all just like shoving parts of yourselves up each others' asses for the exercise. Don't need to turn it into a party.

He believes himself to be correct about all of those. That's part of the problem.

korg is now doing ironic comedy.