land angels group

please restate your questions.

I came here and took the time to very specifically state my reasons for involvement, not to give Catherine a hard time. I read the entire thread prior to answering, and from my vantage point the entire group was being maligned by a conspiracy theory that we were banding together to take over SL. As I said, I cannot speak for any one else's motivations, but I refused to let myself be characterized like that.

You would probably have better luck if you just restated the questions, Latonia. After this many pages with this much back and forth, it is easy to lose track of what is being asked.

Schwanson;

No worries, I am sorry if you feel i was singling you out, that was not my intention. I was showing the link between certain groups and how that affiliation raises an eyebrow. Since which time I think it should also be mentioned that some of my concerns have been validated by an officer of one of the land groups who happens to also be a land baron, and in charge of the land angles group, with connections to other very important groups.

I dont think there is a grand conspiricy.

I do however think my concerns of one person holding all the cards is cause for concern.
In case you missed it I will repost the direct quote for you now;

the following quote from Anshe only reinforses what I have stated in this thread;

http://www.sluniverse.com/language/

"CM: How do you feel about the abundance of malls, casinos and clubs in SL? There are some that feel it is stifling creativity and making SL a generic wasteland.
AC: Mmmm, this shows there is much demand for this type of content. I also see many creative people there providing fun entertainment and creating demand for products from designers and builders. The only problem I see is with town planning. I am in favor of zoning and I am happy there seems to be a trend for commercial places and clubs to move to private islands or to cluster at telehub areas. I also hope that sometime in the future there are some tools that allow residents or land developers create stronger incentives for businesses to avoid residential areas. The presence of one type of content does not prevent people create other kind of content "

"CM: It seems the hot issue currently is player run government in SL, which is met with a lot of anxiety and controversy. What are you feelings on this subject?
AC: Government already exists in the form of the dictatorship by the Lindens. In many areas at the same time is anarchy. I personally look forward to see more choices for residents in Second Life, created by players. I believe the current system should remain as one choice, but special areas with player governments would be a good thing. In Shadowbane for example we had different nations with different governments and people were able to vote with their feet and choose what appealed most to them "

If a person is a land baron and apparently is for gov't zoning that must be looked at seriously. This is the case, not speculation or conjuncture. Apparently my concerns are not baseless.

Cat
Cat

"Give Catherine a hard time" !!! I resent that unenlightened remark Latonia. I have tried to answer questions - but have not wanted to make my weekend SL oriented - so I have put into this discussion what I am willing to spend time putting in.

I don't think it says anywhere that we HAVE to answer questions immediately or ever for that matter. I am worn down and sick and tired of it right at this moment. Which I know you and others will take as a definite sign that Land Angels is a subversive and evil group. PFFFT. So why try anymore.

As great an idea as it was/is, I am thinking that its not worth the headache of having to listen to this constant negativity. WE don't get anything out of it!! DO you get it? So making this a tiring process will just make me go back to giving away land on my own.
New folks will not have a clue that there are people out there doing this - nor will there be any kind of check to see if its not abused. Nice job. Thugs.

You confuse me with Catherine I am not looking for a conspiracy theory. I am looking for whether or not this group's operations are at a stage where I can refer new residents to them, or not. I edited my previous post to make that clear before I saw your response, sorry.

this is interesting cat. i would like to know what exactly are your concerns regarding optional governments and zoning. can you please outlines the concerns this suggests to you.

Cat,

Haney asked me awhile ago whether I thought that allowing whole mainland sims to be bought, anf then resold with the original buyer specifying zoning restrictions, and having the power to eject land owners who break those rules was a good idea. He gave me the impression this was something currently under discussion in LL.

Now, whether or not he also asked Anshe the same question, and this was what led her to bring it up in the interview - or whether Anshe gave LL the original idea - I have no idea, and the difference may be critical.

But I hope that helps you understand a little more.

FYI, I was for the idea, but on a very, very limited basis. Perhaps no more than 2% of Sims operating on this basis. Much like people IRL can choose to live in a development with a HOA or Gated Community.

Edited to add: Actually I now know that any profits that are made are used to buy more 1024 plots for land upgrades for the first land buyers.

Thank you Cris

My questions repeated, as requested:

MrsJackal's post of yesterday asks the very questions I was about to ask.

In addition, does the group inform the newbies of the differences in land value? - ie PG, M, by water, miles from a hub, side of a mountain etc etc. There are considerable differences in price and I think they should be made aware of that.

Also are they informed that when they go to 1024 sqm, they will have to pay land tier?

Ursa - My questions are not negative - I am just trying to understand what the group does and does not do. If you do not wish to answer my questions, that is your choice. However, I do hope one of the other members will feel able to answer.

Enjoy the rest of your day

Latonia

Your concerns are not baseless, but you are putting a certain amount of conjecture and speculation into it, Catherine. Reading both of those quotes from two different questions (with the remainder of the answer being left off of one). Many players have voiced interest in zoning of commercial vs. residential sims, since the presence of clubs/malls/casions in a non-private island sim sucks the resources out of that sim like a vampire, with no recourse for the other people living in the sim. I feel very strongly about this issue myself.

There have been zoned sims in the past, and I don't think offering them as an option is a bad thing. I have been screwed multiple times in Federal, Sistiana, and Inari by buying land for a signficant amount of money and then having the sim become unusable because of a club or casino in the same sim. I would gladly purchase land in a sim that could only have residential/small businesses in it, instead of always worry that the next ugly rectangle build going up is going to be the next Club Elite.

In her answer about government, she also spoke of there being options. I don't think any system is going to work globally in SL, we are too diverse of a group of people. Player run government in some form in some sims is an interesting concept that balances the desire of no system wide government with also offering options to those who want it. How is that a bad thing? Should those who don't want government be able to subject their will on those who do want it? If it is not a system wide thing, I think it could provide healthy variety if it is on an opt in (and by opt in, I mean choosing to live in the sim) basis.

I think your concerns are valid, Catherine, but I do think at this point they are a bit far reaching.

Yes, they are told about differences in land value, though the difference in land value becomes less of an issue when market value is not being paid for the land. It then becomes more important for them to get the exact land that they want. Land tier fees are fully explained to them.

Cris!!!

Thank you so much! This is exactly why I admire your post over most others! You answer the questions that are being asked and you are strait forward. You rule!

Huggerz,
MJ

P.S. Although I'll be surprised if that Elite comment doesn't spark up some controversy...lol.

Thank you for answering my questions Cristiano. I know Catherine had one or two questions of her own, do you think if she were to repost them that you could also answer those?

Latonia

Latonia - while your questions are not aggravating, the idea that our time and effort in responding is done so only to give Cat a hard time IS aggravating - that is the reason for my post. I am beginning to think that you only read what you want. Scarey - and a waste of time to try to respond to you.

I believe he did Go up a couple of post unless there was some she asked that I missed as well.

Huggerz,
MJ

Well sure Jauani;

As far as optional gov't and zoning.

I see you linked the two, I thnk they should be seperate. I don't think its a good idea for a player run gov't to be run by land barons. Now why? Simple answer is corruption or the appearence of corruption. "Its not what you know its who you know". That opens everyone up to a whole lot of problems.

Gov't should be run by the ppl? I am not sure yet if a player run gov't is even necessary, I am open to it tho.

Zones;

Positive:
Residential;
You can be grouped with like minded ppl. Nice streets, parks, homes all grouped together.

Negative:
Residential
You are all cramed in like sardines and the original land owner didn't allow for streets or parks. No view, crummy land, weird neighbors ect.

Positive;
Commercial;
Stores are grouped together organized and you can find what your looking for.

Negative:
Commercial;
Stores are crammed together in endless malls or stores.
A house sure would look nice on that plot.
Island Malls could be adversily affected by this.

There are pros and cons to both but my biggest fear is land barons dictating what gets built where. This would take away a freedom that currently exists of building what I want where I want. I for one would not like that choice dictated by another player. Especialy if that player is not only a land baron but a gov't official.

Cat

I would be glad to. Catherine's questions are a bit harder to answer sometimes, but I will certainly try.

Lisse;

I think its clear that zoning is in the minds of LL and you may be right that someone was influenced. I don't think it matters who influenced who, as they both seems to agree on the outcome.

Cat

Zoning existed for quite some time in several sims prior to version 1.2. Again, I don't think having some specifically zoned sims is a bad thing.

Cristiano;

Let me make my point as clear as possiable here. Any system which is run by one singular group of ppl is a bad thing for SL. That is a communistic society of which I want no part of.

I am sorry you were misinformed of my opinion.

Is there room for a gov't and a non gov't society? I don't know but something we all should discuss.

Cat

Sure thing Latonia sorry for the length of my responce I am answering posts in their original order

Cat

Question Reposted for the convience of the reader for the 3rd time;


I have a question for the group. How does the group decide on the 1024 plots? I mean it seems that your group would be working at a loss continualy unless that 1024 was purchased at a very reduced price. Some of the concern I have herd is that the 1024 is located very far from any telehub, or that its located on a shear cliff. Which makes ppl think its not good land. Do they get to pick which 1024 lot they want?

Thanks for answering my concerns about 1024 plots of land.

Cat

What is lost upon me though is what this has to do with a group helping to give land to new players affordably?

Cristiano;

You picked one thing from many mentioned again. Your comments seem a bit bias

My main point is some ppl are connected via groups powerful groups. Everyone knows that anshe is a land baron that is not news. Anshe is also an officer of the land angels group. Anshe is also for a gov't in sl. Anshe is also for zoning.

Those facts raise concerns with me.

It is not out of the realm of possiablities to use one group affiliation to help another profit from it. Nor is it out of the realm of possibilities to see one group of ppl with a lot of power dictating what everyone else does in SL. Oh hell yes that concerns me.

I asked 3 seperate times for a direct answer to one of my main concerns. Why did I have to ask 3 times for an answer?

Cat

Catherine,

The group decides on 1024m plots based upon what had been donated to the group by its own officers. The goal is to have as much of the land self donated as possible, and to ensure that they are desireable plots. Telehub adjacent plots are the most commerically desireable, this is not a business incubator program so getting telehub plots is not a priority of the group, though we would welcome the ability to offer telehub adjacent land. What tends to be much more important is proximity to water, terraforming, and what else is in the same sim. For the program to be a success, we need a diverse group of people and a diverse group of land flowing in and out of the group. The group will not accept land donations of land that is unuseable (sheer cliffs, etc..).

The person taking part in the program chooses the 1024m plot from the land that is available, on a first come, first serve basis. If the original first land plot can be combined with another plot to form a 1024m plot in the same sim, then that occurs. If not, the land is put on the market and the sale money is used to purchase additional plots.

The group will often operate at a loss, which is why it was important to include members in the group that could work in that mode. The purpose of the group is to help, not to profit at all from the land sales. As I have previously stated, I would also like to see the group expand to offer other incentives as well besides simple plot upgrades. It is a new group and it will take time to work out exact strategies to make this work.