A few words about the Metaverse Justice Watch

Perhaps I misunderstood the intent, and the manner in which it was delivered. If I did I apologise - for once I really hope I am wrong.

Well Prok is on my friends list (and also a neighbor), and though I don't talk to him all the time we have cordial relations I think.

That's good. But try not to mention Neualt around him. He tends to blow a gasket.

No worries. I think you *did* mistunderstand my intent. It happens though!

Hmmm I remember many months back when Kris danced with me at a party. So though she hates all Chinese, all Austrians, all Americans, and pandas... she has nothing against sexxy lil red girls with horns and a tail. I will hear no more about Kris being a complete racist, damnit!

what is this "certain crowd" of which you speak?

and how exactly does someone become unpopular?

hmmm...let's see. If I was a complete asshole to everybody, I would indeed become unpopular. If I started attacking *you* rather than your point, I might become unpopular. Being unpopular would mean that I aggravated a significant number of people to the point that they fiercely responded to me. Perhaps my methods for becoming unpopular are such that they would get me banned? Is that my fault? Or the fault of those who respond to my attacks?

I think you are getting lost somewhere between cause and effect.

There are lots of characters on these forums. I won't deny that there are still too many people who attack the poster, not the post, but the last few months have shown that it takes quite a bit to become banned.

Remind me to do that more often!

And BTW Chris Wilde you are a real Masked Kamen Rider, which is a sure sign of fascist democracy everywhere. ~does that crazy sound and gesture~

I have always thought this but never had the right moment to say it,...

I find Seth Kanahoe to be one of the wisest and fairest voices on the forum.
So, logically speaking, he *does* have a wise ass.

Prepare for...

THE GREAT DOUCHEBAG ANALOGY!

Consider the douchebag...

You can get one made in the Philippines, Europe, or the good ole US of A (yeehaw!)

Sure it may come from somewhere else.. Maybe that might make it a lil cheap, a lil shoddy... Maybe the instructions are backwards and in pictograms... Maybe it has a vinegar scent rather than lemony......I don't know.

But at the end of the day - I think we can all agree those lil details doesn't stop it from being a douchebag.


Siggy.

The MJW is just a cover-up to protect Anshe's investment in SL.

See Here:
/120/da/60097/1.html

Kamen means masked if I recall. Kamen Rider Website If you think that sound is crazy, you should download some of the theme songs. lol

Holy crap I'm redundant today. o.O

You can say that again...

I agree which is why I handle many matters relating to inequality pro bono and have done so for years, way back to law school. I also think if people are concerned about ending insidious racism they should not disregard incidents for the sake of defending a cause or a friend who may be the perpetrator.

We cannot and should not sacrifice ideals of equality for the sake of carrying on a personal grudge. There are better ways to offer crticism and engage in debate.

We also cannot overlook an ethnic slur by pretending the critic is overly sensitive or being politically correct. How much racism and bigotry is acceptable?

Where is the line drawn between characterizing a slur as politically incorrect as opposed to racism Jamie? How much is ok, is calling a name too little? Define the line for me.

There are ways to combat accusations of racism, Aimee, and my best advice to you or to anyone who sincerely wants to avoid that situation is to not use ethnic characteristics and heritage as the basis for personal attack and ridicule when the intent is to attack a position.

I am still not sure how opposition to MJW relates to justifying the use of ethnic ridicule and slurs against the founder of the group. It seems the reasoning has been:

The use of ethnic/racial slurs is acceptable in this case because:

1) Its just a little bit of racism and not that much.

2) The racism is against people from one country but not another.

3) The reader is too sensitive and should be more capable of accepting the slur that was delivered.

4) Racism is really just an issue of political correctness as long as its just a little bit of racism.

5) Racism in this case is ok because of the sexuality and business practices of the one targeted.

6) Racism in this case is ok because the persons associated with the one targeted are not well liked.

7) Racism in this case is ok because its true (bizarre sterotypical circular reasoning.)

Did I omit anything?

You cant be just a little bit pregnant,,,,and you cant be just a little bit of a bigot.

sigh... i can't help one last msg on this topic katy. Your intentions are noble, and some of your points valid, but your view is colored by past incidents in this case, and you are taking -- what? 3 posts? out of several thousand? and using those to hurl labels like racist and KKK around.

The fight against racism/sexism is essential. These are some of the lower qualities of human kind. But I have also seen incidents where people have used the term "racist" to their own ends, and I have seen false accusations thrown out by selfish, petty, and ignorant people. These cases cannot be supported. Nor can one just widely assume "guilty until proven innocent."

Like the boy who cried wolf, all it does it reduce the importance of the real thing. You see the anti-defamation league wrestling with the same problem -- there are those who use the terms "anti-semite" and "holocost" like debating tools. These terms NEED to be powerful, they need to evoke the right response of horror and urgent action.


[sigh...besides, given that I am as far from a racist as one can get, I don't appreciate being called one by someone I thought might be a friend... or I guess, a friend of a friend]

you continue to fail to see the point.

first of all, aimee doesn't need your advice since she never made a derogatory comment to begin with.

second of all, what a bigot does is take innacurate and offensive generalizations and apply them to broad sweeps of people rather than judging individual cases.

does THAT sound familiar katy?

we are NOT excusing any racist comments that were made. We are saying that the "opposition" is made up of thousands of posts from INDIVIDUALS, and because there have been a few idiots does not make the "opposition" (I don't even know what that goddamn means) a bunch of racists.

Nothing justifies ethnic ridicule and slurs against anybody. If you want to say any more about my feelings on the subject, please refer back to that line. But you keep sliding off my main point so I will ask you plainly...

Are you calling those who oppose the MJW racists or were there instead some individuals using "disguised racist remarks" against Anshe?

If some person or persons have made racist remarks they should be reported, the post removed, and the individual diciplined. Up to this point I suspect you and I agree. But you decided to connect the actions of individuals to those who oppose the MJW when you described a KKK-like feeding frenzy. That was profoundly distasteful on so many levels. Aside from trivializing the horror brough upon our society by equating the actions of the KKK to some forum posts, you have just called a whole lot of people racists.

My point is not that you shouldn't be allowed to do that. Rather, my point is that you should not be an officer of an organization founded in the name of Justice.

Well if the enforcement is consitent and evenly applied, and people respect each other, there i no reason to justify any personal attack. Even the first one.

In fact lets leave it at this. There is no reasona to justify a personal attack, even the first one.

Everyone, please stop replying to Katy. She accused someone of saying racial comments were OK. I asked for a direct quote where this person said that. She decided ignoring my question and just moving on to the next accusation was easier to do.

Stop replying to her and giving her a forum to bable these charades.

This is very well said, as was what Lynn said about the same topic. Katy can continue the smoke and mirrors act of calling it making a racist/ethic slur to comment on someone's use of language - it doesn't make it so. If anything, it may not be politically correct, but political incorrectness and racism are hardly the same thing. Forseti's post about the boy who cried wolf was excellent. For someone who claims to care so much about racism (and now apparently about drumming up legal business using the forums, which at least makes more sense about motivation), all Katy is doing is harming her own cause.

I could care less if Anshe is Asian, white, black, or a big blue furry from the planet Naboo. However, when I see her feign the "I am just one business girl" act, then switch to flawless English, I find it insulting. Anshe is the one making a mockery of her ethnicity by using it as some type of PR weapon. It's also insulting to women. If she were doing that as a hispanic, as a black person, as a Dutch person, it would be no less offensive or calculated. Pointing that out is not racist.

PS - where are these edited posts? Who made them? I find it dubious that Katy is here making claims about the use of pidgin English to attack Anshe, yet has shown nowhere that this occured. It happened in the past, with Darko Cellardoor, and he was quickly chastised for it by many people, myself included. As I said, Anshe's credibility as spokesperson of the group goes to the heart of the credibility of the group itself.

I'm not about to call anyone on this thread a racist, nor would I claim that anyone said or defended racist comments or descriptions. However, I'd like to point out something:

SL is an international virtual community, which means we all live cheek-by-jowl with people from other cultures with other POV's. Sometimes that requires extraordinary personal diplomacy and tolerance, as well as an extra effort to understand perspectives that seem to contradict each other, but might both be right. There's very definitely a strong American perspective in SL, but it's a diverse and contradictory one, a fact often lost on our fellow residents from other countries. And there are strong perspectives from other countries, as well, which are often misunderstood and frustrating to our American residents.

For my part, I take katykiwi's concerns as an expression of the need to speak with clarity and take a little more care to be understood well - otherwise, all kinds of undesirable problems might arise.

On the other hand, I have wondered about Anshe's "presentation" of herself inworld and in these forums, and how it sometimes seems to contradict what she chooses to reveal about herself. To me, sometimes behaving like a personality out of the World of Suzie Wong - and sometimes not - is a troubling caricature. It bothers me, just like someone using pidgin english bothers me.

But you know what? It's not too blatant and I don't have all the facts and it's none of my business and it skirts the edges of a ToS violation of RL personal privacy, anyway. So why not let it all - all - go?

Soo well said Aimee! I fully concur.

When someone has made their ethnicity central to their business strategy and their identity in SL, I don't think it would fall under the bounds of privacy. Had Anshe not posted at length about China, about being Chinese, about her family in China, as well as talking about Germany, you might have a point there. However, you can't put the cork back in that whole genie bottle. I would also ask how it is not blatant if so many people have noticed it, yourself included?

I agree with you. These things have occurred, and the disconnect has bothered me. But I suppose my definition of "blatant" is different than yours. To me, blatant means not so much that people don't notice, and more that it isn't a serious and disruptive community problem - or hasn't been until now.