A few words about the Metaverse Justice Watch

Not at all because you have mischaracterized what Forseti was saying.



This is the key point. I haven't seen these racist remarks made against Anshe in the past but I will not doubt you if you say they happened (and I do condemn any racist remarks).

However I have NOT seen any racist remarks in the current discussion. I believe you are attempting to portray the opposition to the MJW as racists. If a MJW MEMBER did this, it could be excused as the overzealousness of an individual memeber. But for the LEADERSHIP to do this (like yourself) causes irreversable damage to the seriousness of your cause. For the sake of your memebers please stop.

So what does that have to do with the group? Tell me somethign about your past and its ok that I inject that information into any unrelated issue you address?

And so what does it matter that the picture depicted Japanese tourists rather than Chinese? Are you seriously saying its ok to stereotype using that picture because of geography?

Amazing, is this the new metaverse?

That is the insidious nature of disguised racism..some people who want to overlook it, or who are not sensitive to it, wont even realize its there.

I am not sure what you mean for the sake of my leadership, my cause is civil liberties and yes, Aimee, I fight racism, inequity and inequality, uneven treatment in real life as an attorney. And you know what, that even benefits you.

I am not sure what members you refer to unless you mean the cause of civil liberties requires membership.

whoa Katy -- cool down

1. the picture of Japanese tourists (not chinese) was a godzilla joke and it's a stretch to point that to Anshe
2. the references to escort services were not appropriate, I agree, but not racism
3. the pigeon english -- well, I missed that one, and yeah, that would irritate me too seeing someone make fun of another person's familiarity with language.

this has nothing to do with black versus asian versus white or purple or anything, so back that horse right up. I would have thought you would have a slightly better awareness of my character before losing your cool and throwing those accusations at me, but apparently not. I understand that your reference to KKK was a reference to racism, not to the black-white issue. I just don't think it applies, and I think tossing the race card into this debate is a cheap defense.

I am not a racist, nor is Aimee, nor is Cris.

I actually respect Anshe, though as I've said before, I take everything she says with a filter of how it grows/protects her own interest and business.

Where did you read anywhere where Cris said ethnic slurs are ok to use? Are you even reading what people are saying? Or are you here just to try and change the opinions of 90% of the population about some ones character by using false statements.

I really believed you at first that people were bashing her race but now it is obvious you are just using Prok tactics. You will fit into that group well Katy.

Well I guess there is no way to combat accusations of disguised racism. There could be some disguised racism in the post I am typing RIGHT NOW. Maybe in YOURS.

There are people organizing boycotts against the MJW. The opposition is huge. It's POSSIBLE that calling people racists for opposing the group is contributing to the problem. The MJW needs a serious shakedown so some good work can actually get done.

katy, i respect that you spend your professional life combatting racism, but you do not know who any of us are in RL, so I wouldn't go making assumptions on what we do or do not know about racism.

if you go looking for it, you will find it, that I can guarantee, regardless of whether it is real or simply in your head

you have done a nice job of diverting the discussion, however. When all else fails, the race card always puts liberal-minded people back on their heels. Edit: I don't know if this was your intention, but it's certainly the result.

I read it and I know the insidious nature of racism. Personal attacks against me dont address the issues Beau. I have a strong belief about racism and I have seen it in many many disguised forms. I speak out against it even when it opens me to personal attack by those put on the defensive.

I was in the past, and am now totally offended when I see a post written in pigeon english and stereotyping of ethnicity. When the ridicule turns to your ethnicity then perhaps you will see the value in having Civil Liberty Lawyers and Advocates speak up.

Yes I am a card carrying member of the ACLU.

Its certainly fair game.





I'm saying that it wasn't a comment about Anshe's ethnicity. They mentioned Godzilla, ferchrissake. They were making a reference to "Oh, no, here it comes, another disaster!"

Let's take that slower.


CHINA.


JAPAN.



DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.



THERE WAS NO SLUR.



Wash, rinse, repeat as necessary. It certainly must be liberating to dismiss other's dissenting opinions on racism! Maybe you can give free classes at your SL law offices!

I don't want to add more doodoo to this situation but come on, lighten up. You're really making a huge deal out of nothing about those pics. Yeah it's a bad stereo type about Asian tourists but there were also pics of overweight white tourists. Why aren't you making a fuss for calcasians too?
See, maybe because you're so intent on playing the racial card here, it only leaves you grasping at straws.

By the by, Katy, don't you feel its just a tad ironic that you're judging the meaning of a pictoral post because of the appearance of the people shown in the picture? Doesn't that seem rather, oh I don't know...RACIST?

katy, this is clearly a hot-button issue for you so I'm going to back out of this one because it is clearly going nowhere.

I admire your principles, but I think when you step back from the heat of this particular battle, you might see that we're not completely off the wall in disagreeing with you.

What is insidious would be the faux cries of racism. It just makes real claims of racism that much harder to get people to listen to.

Sometimes, I think on these forums, not everything is read quite the way it is written. I think one thing we all agree on is that soemthing which might have the color of racism about it, can be damaging.

I do think in point of fact the original post made by katykiwi was intended as an alalogy to some of the behavior observed in the forums which I discussed in my post. I don't think attacking Katy or her abilites as an attorney, or her motives, really does much. If you diasgree about contents of anyones posts thats fine. I accept that people disagree with me over my belief that "forum mobs" rise around unpopular posters, and make noize until the Lindens ban them for being unpopular.

Its one thing to disagree, and another to call someone an idiot for doing so.

That being said, I do beleive there is inequitbale treatment in SL. I give credit at least to the MJW for trying to level the playing field. I am also wary of any such efforts done by as powerful an economic force as Anshe Chung.

I bought land from Anshe, I respect Anshe, but I think its not unfair to say she pays more to LL every month in tier than anyone else. She is a powerful influence on LL and thus I think it fair to question her motives in this MJW. I don;t accuse her of being untoward, but its not an unreasonable concern.

That being said, I don't see where she has yet done anything to make her evil. And I will never understand the whole perfect vs. pidgeon english dispute, I mean who cares? To me its liek the damned attacks on spelling or grammer, utterly without merit.

If people really cared about racism they would spend their lives / money / time in ending it. Not just throwing their hands about wildly when someone said something politically incorrect.

And then theres the nature of hypersensitive people who will find an insult in anything. As Aimee says, there's no real way to counter that kind of claim. So I guess I might as well admit it! I must be a racist. I've not only used the 'one business girl' line to both directly quote and parody Anshe, but I have also said 'stop to sell babies in a box' too.

So count me down as hating all Chinese and all Austrians.

I probably hate whole other nations too, if I think a bit more. Oh actually. Wait. I seem to remember something about me being racist to Americans too. I'll see if I can dig it up so you can see just what a despicable human being I am. No wonder my kind invoke comparisons to the KKK and am responsible for the spiralling decline of the metaverse.

You did not answer my question.

Where did you read anywhere that Cris said it is OK to make racial comments?

You answered this question by giving me a lecture on how much such racial terms offend you. Thats not what I asked. Stop using these tactics. They are hurting your groups image. Please copy and paste word for word where Cris said it is OK.

I think I've read most of the posts on this subject, but apparently missed something. Can you cite the offending post? You dont have to quote it .. but a link to it, maybe include the post number in the thread .. that would sure make it easier to find.

Thanks

Kris is a Pandastrongist!

Cory, i refrain from expressing my thoughts about how you came to accept this as approproate. but I will ask you this as an example:

Assume that a post was made by a member who is Black and and its commonly known she is Black. Assume that this member lives in Europe. Assume that the post related to her postion on business practices within SL. Assume further that I disagree with the position of this member, so I post a picture of Aunt Jemima holding a flag for the US while making pancakes.

Is it your position that its fair game for me to post a picture of Aunt Jemima because she is American and the poster I am ridiculing is European? Explain that reasoning to me.

Now on a related issue, assume the same poster was at one time a prostitute and it is commonly known that she was. Maybe she still is. Assume that the post she made related to businesses practices in SL.

Is it your postition that its fair criticism of her position to say "you slut?"

Interesting logic Cory.

First off, in my eyes, MJW has proven itself to be alot closer to a political group then they claim. Recalling a leader because are scared of "public oppinion" looks like a cowardly political stunt if I ever saw one. Beyond that though...




Personally I trust Anshe's rhetoric just as much if not more then the rhetoric of any group like Amnesty International or Greenpeace. How long would it take any us to find past finger pointing of wrong doing or the promotion of self intrest of any such group. Everyone has skeletons (hell Anshe's skeletons have been dressed up in the finest gowns and pearls then paraded all over these forums.) She does have the right to envision herself any way she prefers. Whether we agree or not.

Are her goals a lil self serving? Well she did many times refer to herself (and others) as "stakeholders." Has never tried to hid that.

Does she have the right to be a lil self serving? Hmmm, if I had as many stakes as her, Id surely be concerned about the place them stakes are held. Probably alot more then some person who goes tiptoeing thru the tulips 20 minutes once every couple of weeks.

Does this mean that all her views and ideas was for the betterment of Anshe & Cohorts instead the betterment of the" metaverse" as a whole? That we will never know. Instead of waiting to see where these views may take us, the mass populace is riding on guesses and personal feelings. Maybe those views was as innocent as Amnesty or Greenpeace claim thiers are. What really gets to me is lot the people jumping on the bandwagon have no reasons to even have personal feelings against Anshe. Probably safe to say many of them have never had any direct dealings with her, therefore no reason to arbor such feelings. (if you have then comment NOT directed towards you.)

If the mass populace is just riding on the fears and possibly hatred of the few... Then what I see amounts to little more then a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchhunt for the "little business girl."


Just my thoughts, since we still live in a free metaverse and still have the right to throw them around like dirty undies.

PS Where did the panties comment start?!?! I always miss the good things

I had to join this........

I sense a Boston Tea Party in the future......

The best way to counter the claim is to avoid presenting it. If one disagrees with Anshe then post it but why add the pigeon english ridicule? Why post stereotypical pictures related only to her ethnicity?

The ONLY function the use of pigeon english and the pictures served was a personal attack that employed her ethnicity. Can you tell me any legitimate purpose served by the use of these tactics as it relates to the issue of the group?

I really want to know if there is one.

Making the charge that those who combat racism are hypersensitive is another excuse for tolerating it.

Well thats where it sorta falls down... Kathy Yamamoto proposed pretty much the same thing - the only difference being in her proposal the officers were voted in from constituancies... and guess what?

A bunch of people hated that idea too! and it spawned a big long winding thread about how much people hated the idea!

And it was rife with 'what if's' and the same concerns....

Siggy.