A few words about the Metaverse Justice Watch

I am not saying Anshe can not be involved. I just dont believe it is in the best interest that she is head of a group that is going to communicate with Linden Labs about what is good for the entire community.

Can you sit there and honestly tell me there can never be a circumstance that could arise where conflict of interest is at play when someone who is the grids biggest land holder and a commanding force in the economy is head of such a group?

If she believes there never will be conflict of interest, why is stepping down to be just an average member and not an officer such a bad thing?

If the recall happened, circumventing it is a serious matter. How can it possibly be justified? You can't blame the membership for its views. The membership IS the group. Or should be.

Perhaps it was a mistake to make it open entry, but THIS group does not want Anshe as an officer if that is how they voted. Is it still the same group, or has she formed a second one?

Philip seemed to indicate that the open membership was a condition of his willingness to talk. Circumventing a recall violates the open-ness of membership, and must therefore destroy his willingness to talk under his present approach. Therefore Anshe has risked destroying the future of the group. How public-spirited is that? Why not gracefully take a back seat, if the purpose really is as selfless as claimed ? I think this demonstrates that the group is a personal vehicle, rather than a representational experiment. Which is fine, but please say so, and go for membership by invitation.

It just underlines the need for an urgent discussion on lobbying rules, and the drafting of a Linden sponsored Code of Practice.

Personally I think there should be a role for both closed and open groups to participate in lobbying activities, subject to certain rules of disclosure and open-ness.

I have a thread discussing lobbying rules, and offering the beginnings of some proposals, for discussion :

/120/35/59942/1.html

If this is the case why is she still listed as Founder and Officer on the group's info page??
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Well, I suppose she's founder no mater what, but why still listed as Officer?

Dunno the why's and wherefores, but thats an important point.

Brushing it off as 'someone is OBVIOUSLY dicking with the system - so we'll just ignore it..' is a pretty dangerous step. Then again, I don't think that equal representation is part of the spokespersons ideals anyway.. could it be that more votes are required to oust because they hold a more 'significant stake' in Second Life? (seriously... I'm not being an ass here - that could be a legitimate argument in this case).

Also on the point that all people must be able to join - Philips own stipulation.. already one of the group founders expresses an interest in not allowing a cartain 'class' the ability to participate unless they pass some unnamed test... this funnily enough reminded me of the 'letter of fealty' that was presented at the Presidents public addresses last election.

I think the groups own internal personalities/politics/and agenda's in that regard will do itself far more damage.

The founder does not change if the founder leaves, and she was reinvited after stepping down from an officer status to circumvent the recall process.

Wow. i'm having government discussion flashbacks. History does indeed repeat itself!

I remember you saying this before, too.

Well he *was* trailing a lot of blood, and poking them with a pointed stick as he ran, ... but the pack was there all the same.

LOL, Diane! I so agree.

coco

Well I am an anti-capitalist myself, so its unusual for me to be backing up Anshe Chung to say the least.

However I feel that joining a group en masse just to oust the person who started it because of (lets face it), essentially a personal dislike, is pretty childish. (again *if* that is indeed what happened), I can't see anything bad about this group anyway based on the Linden response to it.

Personally, I would like to see all the capitalist dogma removed from the game and have us get back to being just a creative, socialy oriented platform, but IMO the Lindens stand in the way of that more than anything Anshe could do anyway.

I dont see why folks are so scared of her.
She always seems to me to be more than willing to work within whatever rules are set up, its really up to the Lindens to set up rules to exclude her behaviour if they dont like it.

But of course they don't, because they do.

No. We like our villians one dimensional even in a 3D world.

hehe.. I almost never seem to agree with Dianne on any issue. Yet she is an amazing creator and an individual.. she certainly stirs things up in Neualtenburg. I would not trade her for the world!!

But to speak honestly. Dianne, a lot of what you are seeing from people is based on knowing the speakers for a long while. A lot of us have been dealing with these people long before this issue. If you care, you can of course read the history in the forums. Perhaps it would give you an understanding of some positions. You of course do not have to, just something to think about.

And by the way. The fact you are in Neualt auto makes you hated by at least one officer in the group. Sorry.

Ok -- once again...

She didn't run.

She was banned - kicked out - shown the door... not by players.. but by LL for consistantly ignoring forum guidelines, after many warning (some us get them too - only we choose to heed them)..

No I don't know what forums YOU were reading.. but thats how it went down on these ones.

So save the 'Poor Martyr Prokofy' because thats just total malarky.. I know it, you know it, and every one else that sat and read these forums knows it.

Siggy.

Neualtenburg was one great initiative. When it was started I even asked Ulrika if I could join as member to support it. Unfortunately I was ignored. Nevertheless I do hope things are going well for you!

Thus far I haven't seen the 'good idea'.

Btw, when Kathy Yamamoto came up with the same idea (only much better implimented and thought out), I thought it sucked dog nuts then. and said so..

Said it on another thread, and I'll say it again here:

Anyone who goes the 'You only hate this because Prok or Anshe came up with it' is a disingenuous fool.

Siggy.

is it a digital or analog watch? waterproof? countdown timer?

I don't know how I forgot to consult you for your advice. Your so wonderfully eloquent and intelligent.

Yeah I know, its a curse.

Does this mean its time to run anshe off the forums like we did prokofy?Wake me up when the shunning starts.

Weird, I thought Prokofy was banned from the forums. I'm sure it'll be back any time now since that's not the case.

I will just have to disagree. This is not a country, this is not a free land. This is a service - we all sign the same EULA, we all download the same game, and none of us truly has any civil rights. Everyone should have the same rights (rights that there are) and voice as anyone else. I think the MJW and all other politically charged people need to realize that this is just a service offered by a company and not some sovereign nation off the coast of Great Brittain seeking recognition and power to the people.

Marcus

My arse! Since when would Amnesty International EVER say it is better than most people! EVER! You insult them by trying to compare yourself to them.

I think the correct thing for you to do is start by apologising for the gross insult you said which I have a copy of in my sig line.

Based on which of my comments sparked an angry response inworld, my conclusion is that the whole "justice" in Metaverse Justice Watch stems from the feeling that Telehubs may be going away, and that these landowners feel they are deserving of recompense if this happens.

The rest just seems like a random collection of complaints about Linden behavior, which I gather Philip sees as reasonable to address, and he and Robin are planning to formalize a number of guidelines about it.

I am hated by many, and loved by few.
It's what makes me so mean.

What's next ? you going to declare yourself Mother Teresa??

Look, if you and your pals want to look out for your own interests, and form whatever group for that purpose that is absolutely fine and you have every right to do.

What you don't have a right to do is to compare yourself to Amnesty International, with a very clear aim to disguise your other motives. As far as I know Amnesty International does not argue as stakeholder in anything and see themselves above, MERE prisoners of war, helpless people who are tortured, those who can not be represented..etc.

Really, your statements are simple insult and I have little tolerance for this sort of arrogance, regardless even if there was some good intention.