A few words about the Metaverse Justice Watch
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Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
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09-02-2005 12:04
From: katykiwi Moonflower Assume that a post was made by a member who is Black and and its commonly known she is Black. Assume that this member lives in Europe. Assume that the post related to her postion on business practices within SL. Assume further that I disagree with the position of this member, so I post a picture of Aunt Jemima holding a flag for the US while making pancakes.
Is it your position that its fair game for me to post a picture of Aunt Jemima because she is American and the poster I am ridiculing is European? Explain that reasoning to me.
Well Katy, its hard for me to explain that reasoning to you because that's a hypothetical situation you created that is entirely different from the one I WAS commenting on. If you'd like to stick to the topic I DID comment on, I'd be happy to elucidate further for you. Oh, and by the way, the symbol of Aunt Jemima (or, if you go back further, Mammy and Uncle Tom) as a racial stereotype means nothing to people of African heritage outside of the United States, as most blacks in Europe are not there due to having been slaves, but rather immigrated freely at some point in their family's history. From: katykiwi Moonflower Now on a related issue, assume the same poster was at one time a prostitute and it is commonly known that she was. Maybe she still is. Assume that the post she made related to businesses practices in SL.
Is it your postition that its fair criticism of her position to say "you slut?" A "slut" isn't a job. An escort is. There's nothing inherently insulting about being called an escort especially if you actually were one before. Calling someone a "slut" is making a derogatory statement about their sexual proclivity. At least an escort gets paid. Oh, and I'll see you at the next ACLU meeting. Wanna see my card?
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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09-02-2005 12:04
From: Jim Lumiere I think I've read most of the posts on this subject, but apparently missed something. Can you cite the offending post? You dont have to quote it .. but a link to it, maybe include the post number in the thread .. that would sure make it easier to find. Thanks The offending posts were removed by jeska after they were reported but I think you get the drift.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-02-2005 12:08
So on a related note.. hows that 2 person tag team forum watch thing workin for you guys?
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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09-02-2005 12:12
From: katykiwi Moonflower I saw one member post in "pigeon english" and another post a picture of Asians taking pictures. A few others called her derogatory names such as escort. Yes. One person in one sentence used "pigeon english" The picture of people taking pictures were not Asians. And that was about a Dress Code for the "tourists" of SL. Found here: /120/e2/59836/13.html#post626103Anshe used to teach classes on virtual love making. She charged 100$L per class. Over time, some mistook that as she was an escort. Though there were rumors that she had almost been an escort for the Cannibus Cathedral. I however never knew her to have been, therefore I'll continue to find it rumor. BUT, that *is* where the reference comes from. Other than that one line then, I think people have been pretty civil in their remarks. Pissed off maybe. Not liking the situation. Strong words and disagreement. But civil none the less. 
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*hugs everyone*
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
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We're cool. Sup?
09-02-2005 12:13
From: Siggy Romulus So on a related note.. hows that 2 person tag team forum watch thing workin for you guys? 
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"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
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Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
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We're cool. Sup?
09-02-2005 12:13
From: Siggy Romulus So on a related note.. hows that 2 person tag team forum watch thing workin for you guys? 
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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09-02-2005 12:13
From: Lecktor Hannibal Yes I thought that as well Cris. Anshe, so you mean to tell me the following quote from the PUBLIC chat at the meeting; weren't meant to ingratiate you to the Lindens?
Anshe Chung: Most of us here have invested considerable time, emotional capital, social capital and financial capital in this country Anshe Chung: This is what we feel makes us stakeholders. More like you and in contrast to e.g. merely tourists, users, consumers, players etc
BTW I think you choose strange bedfellows if you are at all sincere. Lecktor, I don't know why so many people are having trouble with that quote. It made perfect sense to me, and as far as I was concerned it had the meaning which Anshe has just amplified in this thread. Your last sentence I agree with, wholeheartedly.
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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09-02-2005 12:14
From: katykiwi Moonflower The best way to counter the claim is to avoid presenting it. Or just not give a flying fuck what other people think. I find that rather effective too. So, Katy, if you want to call me a racist, you go right ahead! Still trying to find out why I hate all Americans. If anyone can refresh my memory?
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
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09-02-2005 12:15
From: Kris Ritter Or just not give a flying fuck what other people think. I find that rather effective too. So, Katy, if you want to call me a racist, you go right ahead!
Still trying to find out why I hate all Americans. If anyone can refresh my memory? Because Panda's American?
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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
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09-02-2005 12:15
Team ? I thought they were Prok's alts 
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Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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09-02-2005 12:17
From: Cristiano Midnight Anyone with half a brain and the ability to read can notice that Anshe switches to suddenly speaking flawless English when it suits her. That is not an attack on her ethnicity, that is an attack on her credibility. It has zero to do with her being Asian, and everything to do with the PR games she has always played in the forums. It's all part of Anshecorp. Yes. I agree with this as well. It has always been a little frightning to me when I see it though. Even after all this time. 
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*hugs everyone*
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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09-02-2005 12:17
From: Taco Rubio Because Panda's American? *shrug* good enough reason 
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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09-02-2005 12:19
From: Dianne Mechanique However I feel that joining a group en masse just to oust the person who started it because of (lets face it), essentially a personal dislike, is pretty childish. (again *if* that is indeed what happened), I can't see anything bad about this group anyway based on the Linden response to it.
If some people did this, then the word 'childish' I would say was pretty complimentary. I would go for 'moronic'.
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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09-02-2005 12:20
From: Pendari Lorentz Yes. I agree with this as well. It has always been a little frightning to me when I see it though. Even after all this time.  Its ok to be scared of an accent... I think...I have not had that fear and dont quite understand fear of things like accents and foreigners, but that does not justity the slur and/or ridicule of it. Does it?
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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09-02-2005 12:23
From: Pendari Lorentz And by the way. The fact you are in Neualt auto makes you hated by at least one officer in the group. Sorry.  Pendari, That comment is beneath you. 
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-02-2005 12:25
From: katykiwi Moonflower Its ok to be scared of an accent... I think...I have not had that fear and dont quite understand fear of things like accents and foreigners, but that does not justity the slur and/or ridicule of it. Does it? Katy, It does when it's used as an EXCUSE for not being able to speak English to get out of a position or comment made. We have all seen said subject's perfectly written and punctuated text; and we've all seen the EXCUSE made when said subject says... "English is not my first language, you misunderstood what I said." There is a huge difference in writing styles and it's available for perusal right here on the forums. Someone is using a ghostwriter, and we all know it. The problem is... does that ghostwriter or IS that ghostwriter writing what the actual person is thinking? Or is the ghostwriter writing what he/she thinks should be said? The second can be deadly in misinterpreting what the original person wanted to write.
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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09-02-2005 12:44
From: Lynn Lippmann "English is not my first language, you misunderstood what I said." Shouldn't that be, 'English is not my first language, I failed to accurately communicate to you my message.'
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go to Nocturnal Threads 
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-02-2005 12:47
From: Gabe Lippmann Shouldn't that be, 'English is not my first language, I failed to accurately communicate to you my message.' Well, at least the ghostwriter didn't use the often phrased "you people" posted by alts of the same person. 
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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09-02-2005 12:48
/me sings "ghost writers in...... the sky".
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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09-02-2005 12:49
From: Pendari Lorentz That is simply not true. And I find it rather insulting that you would imply that about people who are speaking up against this issue. It is insulting to me at least. I do not run with a pack, nor will I ever do so. I am an individual. Prok used to say the same thing you just did. He was insulting when he said it too.  Well I am certainly not trying to be insulting and apologies to anyone truly offended. I am not trying to "go after" anyone speaking up about "this issue." I am just saying what I see. I don't see an "issue" at all. I *do* see that personalities seem to have lots to do with things here. My opinion only, but I think it's an informed one, i.e. - not based on nothing. take it or leave it as always 
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-02-2005 12:50
Smoke n mirrors 
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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09-02-2005 12:52
From: Selador Cellardoor Pendari, That comment is beneath you.  Hmmm. How so? Prok hates Neualt and everything about it. Including the people that are a part of it. I only stated the truth. How is that beneath me? Maybe you mistunderstood what I was trying to say?
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*hugs everyone*
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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09-02-2005 12:55
From: katykiwi Moonflower Its ok to be scared of an accent... I think...I have not had that fear and dont quite understand fear of things like accents and foreigners, but that does not justity the slur and/or ridicule of it. Does it? No. Her accent is not what scares me. What scares me is that she has this ability to change her wording and accent to suit the situation. If it is in her best interest to use the accent for a particular situation, she will. If not, she won't. As someone who is not the shrewd businesswoman that Anshe is (and you gotta admire her at least some in that she is definitely good at being a businesswoman), I just can't change my words/accent on a whim like that. I'm always the same, no matter the situation. In some ways it is like a person who gets flirty when they are trying to get a situation to go their way. For me, I'm always flirty. I don't care if it gets me my way or not. So anyway, that is what I meant by it scares me.
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*hugs everyone*
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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09-02-2005 12:56
From: katykiwi Moonflower The best way to counter the claim is to avoid presenting it. If one disagrees with Anshe then post it but why add the pigeon english ridicule? Why post stereotypical pictures related only to her ethnicity?
The ONLY function the use of pigeon english and the pictures served was a personal attack that employed her ethnicity. Can you tell me any legitimate purpose served by the use of these tactics as it relates to the issue of the group?
I really want to know if there is one.
Making the charge that those who combat racism are hypersensitive is another excuse for tolerating it. I agree. Really contrary Ideas can be present with out ridicule. Its doesn't matter whether the motive is racist or not, I think everyone who participates in the forms, and in SL is entitled to a meansure of respect. No matter how much I disagree with their ideas. How ever it seems that some people can make personal attacks, and its ok, as long as the person being attacked in not among a certain crowd, or does advocate a certain position. However if the attacker is not of that certain crowd, or is simply unpopular, then LL will ban him or her for Policy reasons.
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ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
Lebeda 208,209
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-02-2005 12:58
From: Jake Reitveld I agree. Really contrary Ideas can be present with out ridicule. Its doesn't matter whether the motive is racist or not, I think everyone who participates in the forms, and in SL is entitled to a meansure of respect. No matter how much I disagree with their ideas. How ever it seems that some people can make personal attacks, and its ok, as long as the person being attacked in not among a certain crowd, or does advocate a certain position. However if the attacker is not of that certain crowd, or is simply unpopular, then LL will ban him or her for Policy reasons. And what if forum history shows that the said and yet-proven attackee hasn't been an attacker in the past?
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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