Sweet!

That is part of my problem - As far as I know, I did nothing wrong. That is exactly what I am saying. There is nothing to explain, because my very problem is that I do not know WHAT I did wrong, so it is impossible for me to explain it. All I can say is that I didn't leave our groups land for more then a few minutes that day, and at least an hour prior to my 1 hour suspension, I was working on a script.


No, LL banned me for 1 hour period. They did not unban me, it was just a 1 hour ban, along with an email essentially informing me that I had had my 'first strike' so to speak, and that any future problems would result in banning or more serious action, that whole shebang. My main problem is the undeserved strike against my account.


I completely understand that there may be a delay in getting a response from the powers that be - but think about it this way, their so called 'investigating' was done prior to me getting banned, and the abuse report was verified before they sent me the email right? Well, my account had only been active for less then 24 hours at the time I was banned, and its going on 3 or 4 days now since I asked to know what I was banned for. It seems if they have the resources to dish out a ban, they should have the resources to respond to a simple email.

I'll let those who know me decide whether or not I'm someone they can trust, and not associate with those who would prejudge me.

I'm just posting briefly to clarify what was mentioned about me earlier: to confirm, je suis lurker on SA forums. (As for contris, hehe... well if you see something resembling my writing on there, then you've got a sharp eye indeed. )

Furthermore, a number of W-Hat members are friends of mine. I like their wacky humor and surreal antics, and we've had some craaazy times -- but nothing that would deliberately and maliciously fall under the header of what I commonly call "GREEFER KIN". I'm just out to explore and have a good time. Hopefully other people in my proximity are going to be smiling, not crying.

I used to visit Baku a LOT, play trivia tons there and do go-karting/skydiving. Hadn't been there in awhile but I'm back every now and then to check out what's happenin'.

For me, even within a group, it's gonna come down to the individual. That's how I deal, on a person to person basis. Baku and Masa, officers of W-Hat -- very nice to me.

^^ As for Jade Lily -- I respected her in a professional capacity before I ever knew her personally. I will vouch for her excellence as a human being.

So, knowing nothing else about me other than my membership in a group, say the KKK or AAA, will not change your ionitial judgment about me? How commendable.

Using group membership in a decision is not prejudging since joining a group is a decision made by you and one might well decide that you support the views and actions of the group you have chosen to join.

Prejudging based on an attribute you have no choice over, such as stature, color, etc. is unwarranted prejudice.

Ill say it since jade is too nice too. You are an idiot for classifying people in a certian group as "bad".

If a member of the NRA kills someone, does that mean every member of the NRA is a gun wielding crazy man? If an actor is a member of the screen actor's guild, and decides to beat up a member of the papparazzi, does that mean that all members of the screen actor's guild are violent and short-tempered?

Prejudice is prejudice is prejudice.

Just thought id mention something. I doubt you got suspended for scripting.. I've been told by some that it can take up to 3 days for an abuse report being reported to it leading to the suspension. (bans are perm by definition, lol.. so its a suspension)

Goodluck figurin' out why though, too bad the lindens never say.. no one ever seems to know why they get suspended.

Oh my. Ryen, there's no need to call Bran an idiot.

Bran does have a point, in that there are certain things a group stands for. For anyone who's visited Baku sim -- W-Hat's land -- and has actually TALKED to Bakuzelas Khan and Masakazu Kojima and asked them about their policies, you will have these things clarified. Also, there is a big floating cube, put up by Masa, that states certain things very clearly. And on the SA thread itself, more info is there about how goons -- or any avatar for that matter -- should behave in SL as per the Lindens's "Big Six", TOS, and such.

There's flipsides to all these things, and a diversity of schools of thought.

And the old line "A general should have control over his subordinates." (Not totally applicable, but it sounded like a good idea at the time *grins*)

Ultimately,
I would hope this lessens any miscommunication and makes way for friendly fun.

Nazis, KKK, Shriners?

Just to be clear, I have _not_ said that W-Hat is good, bad or even ugly. The comment about being painted with the same brush works both ways, good and bad. An example of a good a group associations would be the Shriners.

Well, I don't know what the American Automotive Association has to do with any of this, but the KKK is a group whose stated purpose is unquestionably racist. Membership in that group requires agreeing to certain racist principles.

W-Hat, on the other hand, is a group for people who also happen to be members of SA Forums, which has no stated purpose other than being a web forum affiliated with a comedy website and has an extremely diverse membership of over 50,000 people. In any group that size, you are going to get a few bad apples.

W-Hat has 98 members. Were there 98 people involved in the holy terror mime incident, which everyone now seems to agree was harmless but misunderstood? No. I wasn't there, and furthermore I didn't get a ban. Which is as it should be. So why don't you simply accept the fact that Disco Duck seems to have a genuine complaint that the Lindens are ignoring for no good reason?

Can you please get it through your thick skull that most of the members of W-Hat have not done anything to bother anybody and have no intention of doing so? Is it really so much to ask that you use your mind for just a few minutes instead of just knee-jerking? Or do you believe the Lindens are somehow godlike in their infallibility? Are you some kind of SL fanboy?



The views and actions of a few in a group are not the same as the views and actions of the group as a whole.

Artistic Builders, Awakening Avatars, Writer's Circle, SL Public Library, Second Life Mentor, Live Help. What happens if I add W-hat to the mix? By which group would you judge me?

Okay, I never heard of any of those. You're gonna have to fill me in.


(kidding, of course)

I do and have accepted that, there is no issue there.

I have not said otherwise. I have not said anything against W-Hat. I do appreciate your information about W-Hat.

For better or worst by the ones I am familiar with scaed by the amount I know about each. Like it or not that is how the RL works and SL as well.

Thats when common sense kicks in. If someone says you can shoot them in SL, then it isn't considered abuse. If you do it to someone without premission, or if they say no, then thats abuse. I'm not going to decode the whole list for you. Its easy to understand what they are if you throw in a little bit of common sense. They can't list every case that would be a violation, being all the things that can be done is SL. You have to take it on your own to use common sense and understand right from wrong. The only problem I have about rules is the violation of one, and them not telling you in detail what the violation was before punishment is put in placed. Sorry for typos, but I OD on kool-aid.

Sure, but to poke even more holes in your sieve of an argument: I've known, offhand, about 6 Shriners. 4 of those were alcoholics, and 3 of them also beat their wives fairly regularly. By your own definitions and logic, I would be justified in assuming that about half of all Shriners beat their wives, and a little more than half are alcoholics.

Note that I don't. There is a difference between ORGANIZATIONAL behavior, and INDIVIDUAL behavior with an organization. The KKK, AS AN ORGANIZATION, commits hate crimes. The Shriners, AS AN ORGANIZATION, does good work. The difference between ORGANIZATIONAL behavior and INDIVIDUAL behavior is pretty simple: Who claims credit?

We'll use your examples again, since they're already out there.

Let's take a cross-burning, an activity that the KKK is pretty famous for. It's an act that many people find offensive. The act itself, obviously, is performed by individuals - a group exists as a concept, not a physical entity - but here's where the key difference lies. After the fact, the group (the KKK) point at that act and say 'Yes, we did that, we feel it is right that we did that, that activity is representative of our group as a whole' etc etc etc.

Let's take a wife-beating. Say a Shriner decides his wife is getting a bit too uppity lately and gives her a fat lip. Ask the Shriners as a whole, or even other individuals within the group, and they'll (in general) react with horror. Or, to boil it down: 'That activity is outside the bounds of what our group considers acceptable behavior, that activity is not representative of our group as a whole, that is not right that that happened' etc etc etc.

Ah, you say, but the wife-beating happened alone, the cross-burning involved several KKK members, that's the difference, you're splitting hairs! you say.

OK. Remember the alcoholic thing I mentioned above? All 4 of them would hit the bars together, so the alcoholism was also a shared activity. Same response from the Shriners as a whole - so there you go, there's your difference between ORGANIZATIONAL behavior and INDIVIDUAL behavior.


To bring it back to another point I'm trying to make, I'd love for Disco Duck's tempbanning to be a case of INDIVIDUAL behavior - a ban-happy administrator who did something the administrators as a whole would not have chosen to be representative of their group - instead of ORGANIZATIONAL behavior - a random administrator who did something the administrators as a whole WOULD choose to be representative of their group.

See? I'm really, really hoping that his tempbanning to be a case of individual behavior, but since the administrators as a whole aren't SAYING whether or not the tempbanning is representative of their views, I am left to draw my own conclusions. And given that many people whose opinions I respect have had experiences with the administrators, both individually and as an organization, that were less than pleasant and less than what I consider just, my hope is rather faint.

You are incredibly insightful and one of the brightest people I've never met. I look forward to seeing you in-world, if you return.

Edit: But jade, he is a shitty senator.

Well this is great! Look at what I found on the SA forums.

Back to my original comment: "Be careful about groups you join less you be painted with the same brush. "

OK, like it or not, for good or bad, this is the way things are in RL and SL. It is just a consideration one might want to consider when joining a group.

Well, in defense of Bran Brodie here I did take a look at his profile and he is not a member of any groups in SL, so I guess he really does believe this and lives by it. I have to respect that, even if I do not understand it myself.

Sorry if I got a little frustrated and was impolite to you earlier, Bran. I disagree with your views about groups but I can see that you do seem to actually believe what you say and aren't just using arguments of convenience like so many others do on these forums.

I'm not leaving, actually. If this had all gone down before my trial was up, I would have cancelled. As it is now, I've already paid the price of admission, there aren't any recurring fees - I'll NOT pay for land ownership - so I might as well make the most of it and do what I can to make it a better place. THis is, of course, selfishly motivated - I'm more interested in getting the most value from my $9.95 as I can than I am in making the world a happy happy place for my fellow man or any of that rot.

Seconded. I understand your views, Bran, and as Crom said, you do seem to stand behind your beliefs even when they are challenged - a rare trait. I respect that. Since we've both had our say, I'll drop the discussion here before it becomes an argument.

Oh, and one thing I forgot to add - Merry Christmas, everybody.

I am happy to see such communication and sharing of thoughtline taking place.

Cool beans.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays indeed...

Thanks. I do belong to some groups in RL, some perhaps quite surprising. I accept any prejudice that goes with them, occasionally try to inform people about them and dispel possible bad connotations. But I accept that I will be judged by the groups I am a member of, good or bad. I do not hide my group associations.

My point is that people, almost all, have prejudices. The main differentiating factor is admission of having prejudices. I so admit. I am neither proud nor ashamed of my prejudices. I do try to insure that they are sufficiently correct to make a positive contribution. Sometimes I am just pain wrong, shit happens and I admit mine rather often.

Prejudice is the thing that makes most people shy away from snakes, is this good or bad. Well, if one can not tell poisonous from harmless snakes this is a good prejudice. In fact such a prejudice is the correct starting point, a point from which education about snakes can safely begin. Personally this is one prejudice I have not been able to overcome albeit I have rescued a snake from my pool--I couldn't help it, it was so sad to see that it would eventually drown otherwise.

Not back to your regularly scheduled flames...