Sweet!

Why pick only one? I use a tabbed browser.

Heh. Thread derail over.

I did read the whole freaking thread, thank you Ryen-on-a-million-AV-accounts; I said UNCONDITIONAL apology. YOU said "I'm sorry for what happened--but it's really stupid that I got in trouble for it." When I mean unconditional, I mean it's devoid of conditions that would make the apology -meaningless-. Apologies are made when someone does something wrong. You still insist on apologizing, but that you've done nothing wrong. It's senseless. So before you tell me to go read the threads over again, reread what I said again.

I have no doubt in my mind that if you had ACTUALLY apologized without, "Well, that doesn't mean I deserved to get in trouble," that you probably wouldn't have a tug of war fest in this thread. You're still fighting for yourself, for your righteousness--for what? You think it will get you any less banned? You think it's worth going through the trouble of jumping on--what is it, two alt AVs now--to fight the good fight? The point that "Lindens should explain what we did wrong when we're scolded," is old and used; this discussion doesn't even have anything to do with that. You know, from circumstancial evidence, what you did wrong: there was a gathering, you guys piled in and surrounded people, the people didn't like it so they banned you from the plot, you negatively rated the owner of the land and posted on a web site that others should as well. You're wrong! How is this so hard to figure out???

Uh .. huh.

As for cartoonish stereotyping... methinks thou doth protest too much. Seems like certain people have boxed themselves into their own littl ebox and don't like the view others have of the box or the group.

So.. just as with your name, "cromulent - legitimate but not really legitimate", you attempt to pass off another ridiculous argument ,"you don't like my opinion so you are trying to silence it", in its stead.

As for this being "real discourse".. that requires "both" parties to be willing to adjust initial positions staked out. I see no evidence of that on at least one "side" of this thread.

Don't bother to reply.... tho I am sure you will. I am out of this thread as it long ago ran its course...as did the veracity of certain mimes, a particular group, and any claim to rational argument.

Im sorry korg, but you should NEVER bring up rational argument.

Uh

I'm not Ryen.

I've not been banned.

Seriously, guys, why is this hard to comprehend. If nothing else, look at the writing styles, we're DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

Anyway. I haven't given an 'unconditional apology' because frankly, I perosnally have not done anything I feel the need to apologize for. If other people negatively rated others inappropriately, that's their bag, I'm not a part of it and I won't be held responsible for it. I was a mime, I was one of the mimes that was in a loose group around the other person in the club, I danced. I don't feel that I should apologize for either of those three activities; I don't see the harm in any of them. If you were offended by any of that; if you were even THERE, well, I'm sorry you got offended, but I don't feel responsible for it. If you were offended at the actions of other people, ok, fine, that's not my problem.

See again, this is the difference between group activity and individual activity. If you are offended by the concept of mimes, that's so utterly nonsequitur that I can't be held responsible for it. If you are offended by dancing; why are you a member of Second Life where it seems dancing occupies a good 40% of activity? And if you were not the person in the middle of the dance group, you are in no place to be demanding an apology.

This thread has way too many words in it.

What it boils down to is that we of W-hat are not all the same. Do you know the label for a person who hates an entire group because of what some of its members do and have done?

HINT: STARTS WITH B AND ENDS WITH IGOT

Huns, hurray.

I had a feeling you'd say something like this.

Enough with the redundancy already... let's get positively progressing forward!

I will miss you, unknown Internet person.

Lol, for those of you who have read "The Davinci Code", doesn't this sound like all those famous people involved in the secret society? Just came to mind when I read this.

I don't see the whole W-Hat group being hated, I don't even see individual members being hated. Hate is a little strong. But one reason that the group as a whole is being addressed is because some of it's members are using one or more alt accounts and it is impossible to tell who is who.

Some of the individuals involved get banned. Some of them are now using alt accounts to avoid the ban, it appears that some are using more than one alt account. So since we can not figure out who is who the W-Hat group is going to take some flak as a whole.

Further, it appears that every W-Hat member who has posted here has the same view, the view that they did nothing wrong. So again I paint the whole group in a bad light.

Where is the W-Hat group apologizing for some of it's members, distancing itself from the actions of a few of it's members? Also it appears that this was an official W-Hat activity.

So, does W-Hat want to make a statement for the group?

In order:

1) I'm not an alt. I'm me, this is the only account I have. I am sorry if this is difficult for you to follow, I don't know how I could possibly make it easier.

2) I haven't offered an apology because I honestly don't think any of the actions I did requires one. I'm not alone in this - you seem to be under the impression that eleventyseven people stormed the place, blew it up, urinated in the punchbowl and negrated every player in a ten mile radius. This is not accurate. There were like, what, 8 mimes? Only 1 or 2 of which negrated anyone at all, again, an activity even the other mimes disapprove of. The rest of the mimes likely feel as I do - that we haven't apologized because we didn't do anything wrong. It was a social experiment that wasn't recieved well, which is more a no-fault phenomenon than one requiring an apology. Do you apologize when your hilarious knock-knock joke fails to get laughs?

3) Pretty much every W-Hat member posting in this thread, including myself on at least two occasions, have made it blatantly clear that griefing is not what W-Hat is about. If you take the time to travel to Baku and look at the GIGANTIC SIGNS hovering over our shared land, you will see this for yourself. Is that enough of a statement for you? If not, I really don't know what it is you're requiring.

At any rate, I have family coming in for the next few days, so you'll have to find a way to navigate the harsh wastelands of Internet without my benevolent guiding hand for a while. Please try to find a way to survive, you know I love you all.

I wont appologize for dressing up as a mime, going to a club, dancing a jig, or playfully dancing with a fox on my way out of said club.

I do deserve an appology from LL tho for being banned for such a silly incident.

Are you an alt of Ryen? It seems that so many of you all joined in December and have very low numbers of posts. It is getting so hard to tell who is who.

Disclaimer: I am not an alt of Ryen.

W-Hat as a whole is hated. I discovered SL via Something Awful's forums and signed up. I didn't know anything about W-Hat, other than that it is a place where SA members hang out. So, I joined the group. It's nice to feel like you know some people when joining a new community.

Most of the people I met with were extremely nice. I'm a nice guy as well, and certainly didn't join to grief anyone.

I asked a new person I met about which places were cool to see. One of the places he recommended was Luskwood. I went there exploring the beautifully rendered treetop city. I flew by a group of residents and immediately heard "Oh great, another nohomer"

I had no idea what that meant.

Another resident started yelling out, "everyone watch out it's a W-Hatter"

I was bewildered. I stated out loud, "I'm sorry if I offended you in some way, I'm not here to cause trouble." The lead resident told one of the people shouting to have me booted that they won't boot me for no reason.

I began to talk with this reasonable person. Eventually the person shouting for my removal apologized (if "well I think I was justified in my reaction to seeing your profile, but you're nice, so sorry" counts as an apology).

This wasn't the first experience. Numerous times, encountering people (and never once checking their profiles), they immediately gave me a "W-Hatter, buzz off" reaction.

It was a nice way to be welcome to a community.

I kind of understand how minorities feel in bigotted societies. I might as well use another water fountain.

Let me tell you a little about Something Awful and the mind set here. I think this will also clarify why some people consider us griefers and some people think we're entertaining.

On SA, in real life, we sometimes arrange what we call fauxtests. An example would be marching around with protest signs in New York in December, protesting winter, wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Silly? Yes. Too much free time? Certainly. Funny to see people's reactions? Without a doubt.

As in real life, we don't hit people's heads with signs. We don't surround them to prevent them from moving, or block traffic. The point is not to make people's lives harder or annoy anyone. The point is to be funny or make people scratch their heads.

99% of those who see us walk away smiling. And they also probably say to themselves, "wtf was that?"

These 99% are social people. They live in the real world. They are the animal of human society. They live and breathe fresh air, and the air that their fellow humans breathe. And enjoy it. They are the 99% who have families to go home to. Who have friends to go dancing with. Who have lovers to love.

There is another 1% of our population who walks by the signs and simply doesn't get it. They frown and hustle by. If there is a police officer present, they will complain that the signs' presence is making them feel harassed.

"This is terrible! Winter should not be protested! There's an order to things," they say. "And these people are not part of that order."

This 1% goes home and noone is there to greet them. Their apartment is perfectly neat: not a speck of dust can be found on the portraits of their mothers hanging over the mantel. But noone is coming over later to appreciate that. The black polished phone sits empty, a phone bill sits open beside it. Sparsely separating Mother's number are a few calls to the local Chinese food delivery place.

They walk to the phone, pick it up and place it to their ear. They dial 4 digits, then hesitate and place it back on the receiver. The loneliness swallows them up.

"Why can't I find happiness?" they ask themselves. "It's other people who are nasty. They are the ones who make me bitter."

Sighing, they walk to their computer and log into Second Life. Unlike the real world, there are communities catered to their unual and hard to find interests. Clicking a find button opens the world to those of like minds. Their ugly appearances aren't an obstacle to their attracting new friends. Their prurient interests aren't an obstacle to their finding physical pleasure. Their limited finances aren't an obstacle to their building glorious mansions. At last they can easily find many of their kindred spirits and be happy.

But the threat of those who will disturb this order still lingers. People whose very existance is a glaring reminder that this is all just a game, not to be taken too seriously, and that the real world awaits them at 8:00 AM next morning, potentially lurk around every corner. And so this 1% takes up arms against those who will deny them this one opportunity to fully escape into a fake real life.

Yet there will always be an 8:00 AM.

Try treating people as individuals and you might not have a problem figuring out who is who.

& oh hiya Torley! sup

Is that what you did to the av you and your W-Hat group did?

What did they do to the av, Bran? You seem to know more about this then those present.

Ah, another Ryen alt?

Also, Bran. Please keep up the constant bumping of this thread. We greatly appreciate your help in keeping this topic at the forefront of the discussion forum. Perhaps if it's up at the top for a few more moments the Lindens will finally realize they can't avoid answering some questions and new members will certainly be enticed by the opportunity to join a site at war with itself.

Another Devlin alt?

Sorry, I made the mistake thinking you were reasonable and had a glimmer of intelligence. My bad.

*waves and smiles to Baku*

And yeah, I've always liked the W-Hat charter... it's just so darn... SYNERGISTIC!

Actually, Bran Bodie is one of my alts

My alt accounts are actually -

Teddy kennedy
jaxomlotus Clio
and the aforementioned Bran Bodie