Talented designer permanently banned over extremely shaky charges...
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-14-2006 13:00
From: Nicole David No her L$ had been converted - from what her partner said. Plus - L$ sales are almost instant, and account info is not checked during this process. She was trying to transfer her USD to PayPal, which is when it was discovered that a related account had been banned 2 years prior. If this were the case (which is not indicated on the blog entry btw as it indicated "conversion"  then she can still claim the money legally. If the conversion did not complete (Lindex is not a converter, it's a market) then the money can't be claimed. At any rate, all this was avoidable. It's easier to avoid trouble than to fix it.
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Aodhan's Forge shop at slurl.com/secondlife/Rieul/95/213/107
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Ilianexsi Sojourner
Chick with Horns
Join date: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,707
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08-14-2006 13:01
From: Hiro Queso Ironically, the posts that have thrown the thread off the most are yours. There. Fixed. My apologies.
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Sorako Lightworker
Registered User
Join date: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 30
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08-14-2006 13:21
Oh no D: my heart sank when I read that. Poor Kin, that's just appalling.  if the petition he said to IM him about is still going, I'm definitely signing it. |
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Dale Glass
Evil Scripter
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 252
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08-14-2006 13:33
From: Demian Caldera What's with shared credit cards for families or businesses? Same card numbers, different card holder names? I and 4 trusted family members/friends/biz partners are using 2 cards of that kind since many years, also for SL. And if you use such things, you'd better be very, very careful. There are good uses for them, but as it can be seen from this thread, there are significant disadvantages to them as well. From: Demian Caldera
I guess I'm fucked if one of the other guys loses it and bombs SL?
Indeed you are, just like you'd be if he decided to spend it all at a mall instead. Duh. If you give that kind of control to somebody, you'd better be really, really sure about their intentions, or you might regret it one day. From: Demian Caldera Right now it looks as if LL is losing it. While LL does indeed have their problems, I detect an alarming lack of common sense on this forum. |
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Dale Glass
Evil Scripter
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 252
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08-14-2006 13:34
From: Io Zeno First off, we have no idea what caused this. Comptuer, credit card, who knows. All we do know is that a two year-old account of her brother's was used as justification to ban someone who has proven herself to be an obviously upright citizen, a talented creator, who doesn't cause trouble.
From what it sounds like, the ban was automatic by detecting she had used the same payment data as her banned brother. Whatever was her reputation, it simply never was (and couldn't have) been taken into account by an automated system. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you ask for effective ban enforcement, enforcement is what you get, even when it doesn't work in your favor. From: Io Zeno
The fact that griefers and underage players and content thieves are running around the grid right now, even after being reported, while this productive person is being purged based on some two year-old connection to a banned account is what is so absurdly unfair about all of this.
Again, it must be pointed that different forms of abuse with different degrees of simplicity for LL to handle. If you attack the grid, it's very straightforward for them. Personal disputes like what you say are a lot harder. Not that it's good, but it's perfectly logical. Court cases where somebody committed a crime clear view will be decided much faster than a messy argument of who owns what. |
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Tiberious Neruda
Furry 'On File'
Join date: 1 Nov 2005
Posts: 261
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08-14-2006 13:43
Right... if LL only cares about money, your best response to this would be to tier down and go basic.
That does two things:
1) takes money OUT of LL's hands.
2) turns the mainland into a wasteland, with nothing but Governor-owned plots everywhere.
3) lets us have our SL fix since we're still here, just not paying.
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-14-2006 13:46
From: Dale Glass From what it sounds like, the ban was automatic by detecting she had used the same payment data as her banned brother. Whatever was her reputation, it simply never was (and couldn't have) been taken into account by an automated system.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you ask for effective ban enforcement, enforcement is what you get, even when it doesn't work in your favor.
Again, it must be pointed that different forms of abuse with different degrees of simplicity for LL to handle. If you attack the grid, it's very straightforward for them. Personal disputes like what you say are a lot harder. Not that it's good, but it's perfectly logical. Court cases where somebody committed a crime clear view will be decided much faster than a messy argument of who owns what. I think when most of us were asking for better enforcement, we were speaking of the influx of griefers, thieves and troublemakers who increased with open registration and unlimited alts, not a retroactive search and destroy of the accounts/computers of residents who have been law abiding, good citizens for over a year. What a pointless waste of time with expected bizarre results if that was the plan. |
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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08-14-2006 13:52
From: Dale Glass While LL does indeed have their problems, I detect an alarming lack of common sense on this forum. I detect an alarming lack of common sense (IF this is the case) in leaving an important matter as account permanent banning in the virtual hands of an automated process. |
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Charissa Korvin
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2005
Posts: 138
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08-14-2006 13:53
Oh my god!
I was just at her store YESTERDAY!
I had just recently been turned onto her products and loved them. I'd been referring people who hadn't been there to her store because of the great prices.
This is insane. She put in the work and made those products for this community to purchase and enjoy so, regardless of what LL's justification MAY be for banning her, she is still entitled to her profits from HER WORK!
This makes me (and should make any business owner) EXTREMELY concerned about LL's practices and conduct in situations like this!
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Neil Protagonist
FX Monkey
Join date: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 346
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08-14-2006 14:03
Nakama will be closed today to honor the death of Kin Kieko. We hope the Lindens will ressurect her. Apologies to the Nakama retailers this adversely effects but we feel a moment of silence for Kin, who was one of those retailers, is completely in order.
Lindens: BRING BACK KIN!!!!!!
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" Control the things you can control, maggot. Let everything else take a flying f**k at you, and if you must go down, go down with your guns blazing." -Cort Need fire? Visit my FX Store in Bisque(232, 4  Sick-N-WrongLike Anime? Visit Nakama!
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Torrid Midnight
Work in progress
Join date: 13 May 2003
Posts: 814
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08-14-2006 14:05
Bring back Kin!! Please? |
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Zoe Llewelyn
Asylum Inmate
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 502
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08-14-2006 14:14
I am placing a notice in my store that states my support for Kin, and asks everyone to IM Dazzo to sign the petition for LL to bring Kin back ASAP.
If you are a content creator or land owner and feel LL erred here, I urge you to also place a sign supporting Kin in your stores or land until this issue is addressed officially.
Thanks you.
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PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
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08-14-2006 14:19
Design a prim with the text/copy - and put it up as a download file for us that are not wizards in photoshop and we al can put it up in our store(s). Please..
/Tina - still wish that LL will give us an explanation.. what so ever it will be..
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Sansarya Caligari
BLEH!
Join date: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,206
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08-14-2006 14:20
From: Charissa Korvin ...regardless of what LL's justification MAY be for banning her, she is still entitled to her profits from HER WORK!
This makes me (and should make any business owner) EXTREMELY concerned about LL's practices and conduct in situations like this! Yeah, really. Why promote the economy so much if stuff like this can happen, and has happened? Why doesn't LL answer this thread with something to reassure the SL business owners/content creators that they are working to ameliorate the problem here? Knowing your business could be dead and all your investment gone due to a possible automated banning process has to suck if you create/sell anything in SL. I feel really bad for Kin, and I love, love, love her hair. She obviously put a lot of work into her creations and she was an innovator of hair in SL, not just adding to the whole body of work but changing the way hair can be created. I feel doubly bad knowing that her work was going to her education. |
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elka Lehane
WOWAWIWA
Join date: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 983
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08-14-2006 14:21
From: Zoe Llewelyn I am placing a notice in my store that states my support for Kin, and asks everyone to IM Dazzo to sign the petition for LL to bring Kin back ASAP.
If you are a content creator or land owner and feel LL erred here, I urge you to also place a sign supporting Kin in your stores or land until this issue is addressed officially.
Thanks you. Great thing to do, I fully support this idea. Addiotionally, I have made freebie tees to be worn to show your support: /invalid_link.htmlWE'LL GET YOU BACK KIN, I SWEAR!!!!
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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08-14-2006 14:22
From: Dale Glass While the situation indeed sucks, what do you expect them to do? Call her and discuss who was actually logged in? WEll, yes, why not. When you consider the drastic action taken, banning and seizure of her property, then at the very least she deserved a hearing before being banned. |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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08-14-2006 14:33
FWIW, I came across this article on PXP. It's dated July 5: From: someone Kin started playing SL 2 years ago under the name of Keena Brodsky. Then under a couple more. Everytime she “got bored” but she got lots of experience with prims, at least. Only recently, she created her new avatar that we know under the name of Kin Keiko, and realized that she really got the hang of it and wished to realize the dream of opening a hair business. She is a little underground and shy, “yes i dont really like to be all out there LOL”, but her business is starting to get very well known, and it is not rare that you will see her creations in the ads of the most popular designers. So... Kin isn't new to SL. Kin has been playing here for 2 years... which is when her brother did too. And had at least a couple alts. Something seems a bit off, IMO.
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Broadly offensive.
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-14-2006 14:41
I've had a couple of alts, too, ban me, then. Got bored with them, too.
If I had a two year-old alt that got banned for whatever reason (and it could be any capricious thing like a personal fight getting out of hand), and hadn't caused any trouble since, what is the point of this retroactive action? Is this what LL is doing, searching all accounts for previous trouble when god knows there are plenty of minty new griefers/alts bothering people right now?
And how do we know it wasn't her bothersome brother using her account? Just because she's had some alts? Two years ago, who gives a flip?
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-14-2006 14:41
From: Lorelei Patel FWIW, I came across this article on PXP. It's dated July 5:
So... Kin isn't new to SL. Kin has been playing here for 2 years... which is when her brother did too. And had at least a couple alts.
Something seems a bit off, IMO. What exactly are you implying?
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I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb.
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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08-14-2006 14:42
From: Lost Newcomb What exactly are you implying? That I've heard the "bad brother" line a few too many times. ETA: I hear your argument that even if Kin and her brother are one and the same, she's been clean the last two years. What I'm suggesting is that there could be a lot more here that we don't know, and it's a bit irresponsible to go off half-cocked without having the facts. I see something here that makes the account we have so far look questionable; I'm reserving judgment.
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Broadly offensive.
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Soleil Mirabeau
eh?
Join date: 6 Oct 2005
Posts: 995
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08-14-2006 14:43
We should have a vigil in Ambleside. |
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-14-2006 14:44
From: Lorelei Patel That I've heard the "bad brother" line a few too many times. Who cares? You just assumed this. And if it's true, it matters moot, cause she's a content creator and a good one at it from what I heard. The whole appeals process needs be re-worked, currently LL abuse-appeal process is so chocked full of red-tape that people would just give up trying to get their accounts back.
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I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb.
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-14-2006 14:45
From: Lost Newcomb What exactly are you implying? One thing I do see is that there's no way she wouldn't know her brother got banned. She should have taken extra care from that point at the very least.
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Aodhan's Forge shop at slurl.com/secondlife/Rieul/95/213/107
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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08-14-2006 14:45
From: Lost Newcomb Who cares? You just assumed this. No, reread. I'm assuming nothing. I'm saying that the comments I've found have cast doubt, in my mind, to the version of the story I'm reading here. I'm not assuming she's innocent and I'm not assuming she's guilty. I'm just not going to join the lynch squad without more information.
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Broadly offensive.
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-14-2006 14:51
From: Aodhan McDunnough One thing I do see is that there's no way she wouldn't know her brother got banned. She should have taken extra care from that point at the very least. Well, that is exactly what she seems to have done. I haven't heard that she has caused any trouble at all and this is based on a two year old incident, whoever it was. People have known her as a good citizen and content creator, what else could she do? |
