Talented designer permanently banned over extremely shaky charges...
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VolatileWhimsy Bu
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,492
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08-14-2006 10:54
From: Cow Hand No. Philip has stated on more than one occasion he is building a COUNTRY.
This implies that LL is the government. I think he has an idea in his head.. but when he goes to apply it he goes the other direction.. that is common.. something of an idea hardly ever can be put into place properly..
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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08-14-2006 10:55
From: Cow Hand No. Philip has stated on more than one occasion he is building a COUNTRY.
This implies that LL is the government. Now I know you're trolling. No-one with any sense would take that literally.
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-14-2006 10:56
From: Lost Newcomb Your view is similar to the right wing doctrine. Either you are with us or against us. They, similar to you suggest leaving the country if one was to criticize and point out things that are wrong. This is not how things work. Especially with a buisness, heh. Much harder to leave your country than just refuse to pay for a product that is no longer meeting your needs. Anyone can live without SL or any other MMO, no matter how much they love it. Just stop playing. Is that what LL wants? Buy this shitty car or bugger off!
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Cow Hand
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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08-14-2006 10:57
From: Hiro Queso Now I know you're trolling. No-one with any sense would take that literally. Why not? A nation is simply an aggregation of individuals that share an identity, not necessarily just a geographic boundary. I take Philip quite literally, and feel that SL could, in fact, be on the road to nationdom.
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Ilianexsi Sojourner
Chick with Horns
Join date: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,707
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08-14-2006 10:57
And this is why the forums are closing. This starts out being an informational thread trying to discuss something that many feel is an injustice, and before long it degenerates into a pointless argument, just like so many other threads. Wonder if anything else constructive about the actual topic will be said before the thread is locked?
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Everything's impossible,'till it ain't. --Ben Hawkins, Carnivale
Help build a Utopian Playland-- www.doctorsteel.com. Music, robots, fun times!
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-14-2006 10:58
From: Cow Hand No. Philip has stated on more than one occasion he is building a COUNTRY. This implies that LL is the government. bwhahahaha! I am King of the Servers and all the toons will bend to my will or.... They will log off! Oh, dear....
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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08-14-2006 10:58
From: Cow Hand Why not? A nation is simply an aggregation of individuals that share an identity, not necessarily just a geographic boundary.
I take Philip quite literally, and feel that SL could, in fact, be on the road to nationdom. 
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Cow Hand
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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08-14-2006 10:58
From: Ilianexsi Sojourner And this is why the forums are closing. This starts out being an informational thread trying to discuss something that many feel is an injustice, and before long it degenerates into a pointless argument, just like so many other threads. Wonder if anything else constructive about the actual topic will be said before the thread is locked? The actual topic was most likely given the appropriate spin. Its very hard to determine what actually transpired - and not necessarily smart to rely on those feeding you the situation as they will naturally be biased to their own point of view.
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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08-14-2006 11:01
From: Ilianexsi Sojourner And this is why the forums are closing. This starts out being an informational thread trying to discuss something that many feel is an injustice, and before long it degenerates into a pointless argument, just like so many other threads. Wonder if anything else constructive about the actual topic will be said before the thread is locked? Pointless argument? So you don't feel that discussing those who see no value in peoples complaints on this and other matters has any relevance? I think it's not only a worthy arugment, but an indirectly relevant one. PS keep on topic please 
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-14-2006 11:02
From: Ilianexsi Sojourner And this is why the forums are closing. This starts out being an informational thread trying to discuss something that many feel is an injustice, and before long it degenerates into a pointless argument, just like so many other threads. Wonder if anything else constructive about the actual topic will be said before the thread is locked? Tell me of the one forum where every thread stays on topic, never has infighting or extraneous issues, especially those threads which are based on second hand info. If you don't like that sort of thing, don't read it. Let those of us who do, enjoy these little deversions in thread. Not every thread is like this and you know that. Just the other day I read about a new place to visit right here in General that I would not know existed without the forums. I could say that for many cool places I've found in SL.
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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08-14-2006 11:03
From: Summer Carmichael This says a lot about how you deal with adversity. I guess you advocate this behaviour too? Wow, you are trully one of the great minds of our era! You managed to take a humourous remark (as evidenced by the  ) and draw an all encompassing conclusion. Then you used that conclusion to snipe another person you do not know, for no particularly useful reason that I can find. Hats off to you, but pick another battle, I'm done. Now, that I've indulged myself  . 1) it says absolutely nothing with how I deal with adversity. I can, if I try not to think to hard, see where you might get that idea, but you would be wrong. 2) Advocate, no. Understand, perfectly. 3) I don't generalize, I know Kin, which is why I would understand any frustration she might experience.
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Summer Carmichael
UNVERIFIED REGISTERED
Join date: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 326
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08-14-2006 11:06
From: Queenie Extraordinaire Ya know what? When you have been around for over 2 years and see the stupid shit after stupid shit that LL does, maybe you'll have a slightly different view. *translation* You should shut up you haven't been here as long as the rest of us, your opinion isn't valuable newbie. Don't you know who we are? There has been LOTS of BAAAAAD BAAAAD stuff, we know all about "IT". Vague and dismissive..very attractive. /rolling on the sarcasm liberally
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Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
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08-14-2006 11:11
This is for someone that wanted pie:  Now, that that is out of the way, I would like to say I agree that this is wrong, as I did over at PXP and the very LEAST that LL could do is release her money, but jesus, since when do LL do whats good for their customers unless it benefits them? We miss you, Kin!
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Ilianexsi Sojourner
Chick with Horns
Join date: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,707
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08-14-2006 11:12
From: Hiro Queso Pointless argument? So you don't feel that discussing those who see no value in peoples complaints on this and other matters has any relevance? I think it's not only a worthy arugment, but an indirectly relevant one.
What I find annoying is how it quickly got into an argument about whether SL is a democracy and whether people should keep whining about it either way. That may be an exciting discussion, but I started reading this thread because I wanted to see if there was anything new in the way of opinion and/or fact regarding Kin's case. But, never mind, I'll just shut up and let you get back to the arguing.
_____________________
Everything's impossible,'till it ain't. --Ben Hawkins, Carnivale
Help build a Utopian Playland-- www.doctorsteel.com. Music, robots, fun times!
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Summer Carmichael
UNVERIFIED REGISTERED
Join date: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 326
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08-14-2006 11:13
From: Rickard Roentgen Wow, you are trully one of the great minds of our era! You managed to take a humourous remark (as evidenced by the  ) and draw an all encompassing conclusion. Then you used that conclusion to snipe another person you do not know, for no particularly useful reason that I can find. Hats off to you, but pick another battle, I'm done. Now, that I've indulged myself  . 1) it says absolutely nothing with how I deal with adversity. I can, if I try not to think to hard, see where you might get that idea, but you would be wrong. 2) Advocate, no. Understand, perfectly. 3) I don't generalize, I know Kin, which is why I would understand any frustration she might experience. Putting a big old green smilie doesn't give you impunity of what you wrote. Seems to me you were smiling at your suggestive ideas. I am sorry I misread your post. Thank you for clarifying because you came off pretty lame.
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Summertime is a nice time.
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VolatileWhimsy Bu
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,492
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08-14-2006 11:13
From: Ilianexsi Sojourner What I find annoying is how it quickly got into an argument about whether SL is a democracy and whether people should keep whining about it either way. That may be an exciting discussion, but I started reading this thread because I wanted to see if there was anything new in the way of opinion and/or fact regarding Kin's case. But, never mind, I'll just shut up and let you get back to the arguing. I'ld would like to point out that we are actually having a discussion and not an arguement.. i dont' see any name calling or little jabs.. well one or two might, but they are what they are..
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-14-2006 11:14
From: Hiro Queso OK I will reword it for you Reitsuki: If LL would consider themselves a government, under what type would they consider it to be, and what does this mean to all it's citizens? I suspect, however, they consider themselves a company  Strictly speaking, the closest thing to LL's "government" style would be a benevolant dictatorship, although what they consider themselves I have no idea.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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08-14-2006 11:14
From: Summer Carmichael *translation* You should shut up you haven't been here as long as the rest of us, your opinion isn't valuable newbie. Don't you know who we are? There has been LOTS of BAAAAAD BAAAAD stuff, we know all about "IT". Vague and dismissive..very attractive. /rolling on the sarcasm liberally *translation* a) a larger set of data points is not any better than a limited set. b) experience doesn't teach you anything. c) past behavior is in no way any indication of probable future behavior. d) condescention is always best combatted with sarcasm. e) nobodies paying attention to me so I'll pick fights. PS ~ I lied, bring it on  . P.PS ~ The principal I applied here is commonly known as "turnabout is fair play"
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VolatileWhimsy Bu
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,492
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08-14-2006 11:15
From: Rickard Roentgen *translation* a) a larger set of data points is not any better than a limited set. b) experience doesn't teach you anything. c) past behavior is in no way any indication of probably future behavior. d) condescention is always best combatted with sarcasm. e) nobodies paying attention to me so I'll pick fights. i have to agree with his translatoin of the person that posted that.. it was quite elitist.. 
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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08-14-2006 11:17
From: Iris Ophelia Right now, there have been endless unjust actions I've seen in my short time here, so I'm inclined to believe this case. I'd spoken with Kin briefly in-world, I had most of her hairstyles. I'm notorious for holding back to see the bigger picture. i don't blame LL for bugs, for development problems, but as much as I try, I can't imagine how this could have been instigated by Kin herself. I understand that for security's sake, some measures are in place that may unintentionally block innocent parties. However, shouldn't their be an appeals system in place that works? People know where to send the contestations, the problem is they never hear back. Nothing is done. IP and CC banning is great, but you have to allow for appeals and exceptions or else we're going to lose a lot more talented people. And in my opinion even if she DID deserve it, she should have been paid out. She earned her money, and you can't preach about how you've made a real economy and real currency, then take someone's earnings when it suits you. Did she cause hundreds of dollars of in-world damage to warrant her money being claimed by LL? That's the sort of thing that we would have heard at least a whisper of by now. BRAVO!!!!!coco
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Summer Carmichael
UNVERIFIED REGISTERED
Join date: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 326
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08-14-2006 11:19
From: Rickard Roentgen *translation* a) a larger set of data points is not any better than a limited set. b) experience doesn't teach you anything. c) past behavior is in no way any indication of probable future behavior. d) condescention is always best combatted with sarcasm. e) nobodies paying attention to me so I'll pick fights. PS ~ I lied, bring it on  . P.PS ~ The principal I applied here is commonly known as "turnabout is fair play" pick your weapon..I am leaning toward a tickle fight
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Summertime is a nice time.
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Elror Gullwing
Registered User
Join date: 6 Sep 2004
Posts: 306
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10 Pages of Comment.....
08-14-2006 11:19
Any feedback, formal or sidebar, from Lindens?
When seeing such a strong response from many long-time and experienced residents/members, I would assume LL might want to at least acknowledge the feeback form it's core constituency. Even a generic "we can't discuss other member's account issues, but we are investigating, and will come to a final decision soon, etc..." would be appropriate.
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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08-14-2006 11:20
From: Ilianexsi Sojourner What I find annoying is how it quickly got into an argument about whether SL is a democracy and whether people should keep whining about it either way. That may be an exciting discussion, but I started reading this thread because I wanted to see if there was anything new in the way of opinion and/or fact regarding Kin's case. But, never mind, I'll just shut up and let you get back to the arguing. OK so when it's something you want to read, it's people discussing opinions (and fact?), and when it's not, it's arguing? An interesting take. How LL view themselves is relevant to discussion on how these incidents should be dealt with. Ironically, the posts that have thrown the thread off the most are yours. Perhaps you should let us know what we should say in YOUR thread then?
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-14-2006 11:21
A better appeals system is a good idea. Look what they did to this guy. It's a shame to see that all you had to do to end someone's enjoyment of SL is to report him/her being a teen. Now the victim (who is 23) has to jump through endless hoops and LL red-tape to get back on the grid. His answers question remains unanswered. If they remove these forums, I'd like some LL human power directed to a better abuse/appeal system.
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I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb.
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-14-2006 11:21
Back on topic.  It is the money thing that is most disturbing, because I don't understand what the TOS is, exactly, on that issue. We know that LL can terminate service and not give any of us an explanation, not even the banned. But the money you earned in SL, money you would have cashed out for real dollars, is this the policy? If you are banned kiss it goodbye, it's ours along with your account? I think that DOES deserve some clarification.
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