Talented designer permanently banned over extremely shaky charges...
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Sexy Partridge
Registered User
Join date: 5 Feb 2005
Posts: 208
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08-14-2006 06:46
this is horrible. You should not be banned for acts of family member.
this is why they want to do away with forums to keeps us all blind of some of the decisions LL makes.
I have known ppl that have really done some things in this game that should be banned but are still in game.
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Ilianexsi Sojourner
Chick with Horns
Join date: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,707
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08-14-2006 06:52
Agreed, this is really terrible.... it's sad to lose a talented resident over this kind of thing. Even if they were sharing a credit card, it'd be nice if the resident's record (lack of abuse reports, etc.) counted for something.
Dazzo Street has a petition related to this, as the article mentioned.... I hope it does some good. (Added my name to it already.)
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-14-2006 06:58
From: Sexy Partridge this is why they want to do away with forums to keeps us all blind of some of the decisions LL makes.
False. Remember that to view these forums you login. By closing the forums issues like this actually become more public because the posts will be happening on forums where LL has no control. Some of these forums may be public. Consider also that most residents don't even look at the forums.
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Marla Truss
Registered User
Join date: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 197
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08-14-2006 06:59
From: Aodhan McDunnough [2] There is no US$ balance involved. As per the blog entry the block happened before any Lindex transaction happened. As L$ are officially not redeemable (as per TOS), there are no funds being held. This is the part that really bothers me. Irrespective of LL's TOS which says they will not redeem Lindens, the Linden has real value. (Note, the TOS does not say the Linden has no value unless it's somewhere else that I missed). That means that the "Judge" was not independent or neutral in this case, but actually received remuneration for finding a guilty verdict. And that's scary. I can see banning someone, but can see no ethical justification (unfortunately, it probably is legal) in keeping their property, even if it is virtual property. At minimum they should have allowed the individual to liquidate her property. This hurts Linden Labs as well. If they want to be the start of a new age for the Internet, they MUST establish fairness and trust in their financial structure. This doesn't do it. Note, I liquidate my funds fairly often. I don't like leaving large sums of money in an arbitrary parties hands, irrespective of how honest they may or may not be.
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-14-2006 07:02
From: Marla Truss This is the part that really bothers me. Irrespective of LL's TOS which says they will not redeem Lindens, the Linden has real value. False. The L$ only has value between residents. It has no value legally. It can only gain legal value if LL announces that they will buy L$ from residents at an announced price. It will have value only for as long as such a promotion exists. From the TOS From: someone 1.4 Second Life "currency" is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab's discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab. You acknowledge that the Service presently includes a component of in-world fictional currency ("Currency" or "Linden Dollars" or "L$"  , which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of our product when, as, and if allowed by Linden Lab. Linden Lab may charge fees for the right to use Linden Dollars, or may distribute Linden Dollars without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time. You agree that Linden Lab has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate such Currency as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Linden Lab will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such right. Translated into usable terms: If you don't want to lose the value of your L$, you have to convert it to US$ on the Lindex. LL will honor your US$ balance, not your L$ balance.
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Ilianexsi Sojourner
Chick with Horns
Join date: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,707
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08-14-2006 07:22
Regardless of whether the L$ has value or not, I'd like to see this decision reversed. It's really irritating to me that LL would ban a talented person who added something positive to the community and (as far as I ever heard) had a clean record, and yet residents can file abuse reports over and over for other situations with no result.
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Pallmor Bergman
Registered User
Join date: 1 Mar 2005
Posts: 50
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08-14-2006 07:23
Why do I have a funny feeling that Kim, her "boyfriend," and her "brother" are all the same person? And why do I also have the feeling that we're not getting anything CLOSE to the REAL story?
-Pall
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Chronic Skronski
SL Live Musician
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 997
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08-14-2006 07:30
Lindens, if you're reading, it would be a very good idea to post your side of the story here - even if you feel it is none of our business.
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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08-14-2006 07:33
From: Pallmor Bergman Why do I have a funny feeling that Kim, her "boyfriend," and her "brother" are all the same person? And why do I also have the feeling that we're not getting anything CLOSE to the REAL story?
With this kind of accusations you're definately no better than who, at LL did the ban just basing it on finacial information (That now are not even required anymore to play, by the way, and as such are completely moot), but since you felt the compelling need to write this extremely unwarranted and fairly not very smart post, at least you could add in that little effort needed to spell her name right.
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Inigo Chamerberlin
Registered User
Join date: 13 May 2006
Posts: 448
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08-14-2006 07:36
From: [left Aodhan[/left] [left]McDunnough[/left]] Consider also that most residents don't even look at the forums. Many residents, especially new ones, avoid the forums. One reason seems to be that they have no previous experience of forums and don't 'get it'. Another is that the forums are pretty intimidating, especially for new users, something I have heard time and again in-world. Hopefully one of the new forums will manage to pitch things in a more inclusive fashion - time will tell.
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Baba Yamamoto
baba@slinked.net
Join date: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1,024
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08-14-2006 07:36
From: Shiryu Musashi With this kind of accusations you're definately no better than who, at LL did the ban just basing himself on finacial information (That now are not even required anymore to play, by the way), but at least you could put in that little effort needed to spell her name right. No, not required.. but still used for some accounts such as those who request USD.... And if one person has the same financial information as another account, you may not be able to tell how old they are but you can assume they are the same person or at least closely related
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Coyote Momiji
Pintsized Plutonium
Join date: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 715
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08-14-2006 07:39
Why would LL allow a banned account's CC to be reused in the first place?
This smells very odd.
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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08-14-2006 07:41
From: Baba Yamamoto you may not be able to tell how old they are but you can assume they are the same person or at least closely related You used the key word: "assume". This ban is merely based on assumption. Second key word (or sentence): "or at least closely related". Being closely related to a griefer (or whoever else warranted a ban TWO YEARS ago) definately doesn't warrant being banned.
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Lou Dobbs
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 57
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08-14-2006 07:46
FREE KIN KEIKO
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Baba Yamamoto
baba@slinked.net
Join date: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1,024
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08-14-2006 07:59
From: Coyote Momiji Why would LL allow a banned account's CC to be reused in the first place?
This smells very odd. I don't think it's stated that a credit card was used to check the account...
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Summer Carmichael
UNVERIFIED REGISTERED
Join date: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 326
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08-14-2006 08:05
LL should make a panel of users that we choose, of course not them, to decide all disciplinary actions within Second Life. This panel of users must gain full public support and explain themselves to us the general users of Second Life prior to taking any action. If it is not of popular public opinion then it can not be done, we must have full transparency over everything. Who do these people think they are? /full sarcasm Having said that I hope that if someone is wrongly persecuted there are avenues they can take to have an appeal and explain themselves and LL would base subsequent actions on that, like a possible decision reversal. Is such a thing in place now?
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-14-2006 08:10
From: Inigo Chamerberlin [1] Many residents, especially new ones, avoid the forums. One reason seems to be that they have no previous experience of forums and don't 'get it'. [2] Another is that the forums are pretty intimidating, especially for new users, something I have heard time and again in-world. [3] Hopefully one of the new forums will manage to pitch things in a more inclusive fashion - time will tell.
[1] I'd like to add to your statement. In my first MMOG I never visited the forums over the 18 months I played. My reason? I was content where I was. The main website and official news pages were all I needed. [2] VERY. I'm not intimidated by the forum at all, but for the average resident? OMG this forum is frightening. People can get intimidated over the simplest of things if you noticed. [3] Yep. I'm hoping for that too. But I'm also resigned to the fact that majority of the residents will never visit a forum. That's the way it is everywhere.
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Demian Caldera
..ya, that too...
Join date: 8 Jun 2004
Posts: 249
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08-14-2006 08:21
From: Dale Glass Let me repeat: If you share your financial info with anybody, even your parents or best friend, you're stupid. These days it's not just LL, you can have your whole life screwed by letting somebody else have it. What's with shared credit cards for families or businesses? Same card numbers, different card holder names? I and 4 trusted family members/friends/biz partners are using 2 cards of that kind since many years, also for SL. I guess I'm fucked if one of the other guys loses it and bombs SL? Right now it looks as if LL is losing it. 
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VolatileWhimsy Bu
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,492
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08-14-2006 08:25
I would like everyone to realize something, you all have the mob mentaility.. seriously.. Stop demaning things that are abseloute than being upset when it backfires... stop assuming things are one way, without getting all the facts. I can understand empathizing with the person getting banned.. and feeling the need to stick up for them.. but to assume you have the whole story and what you know is gospel.. is just not smart :/
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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08-14-2006 08:53
This is definitely one of those "be careful what you wish for" moments. We rant a lot demanding stricter enforcement of the rules and new rules to keep out the undesirables. Well here's a good example of why the cure can sometimes be worse than the disease. Anyway, very sorry to hear this happened to her.
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Cow Hand
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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08-14-2006 08:57
From: Fmeh Tagore Despicable. I hope there's another side to the story. There probably is. Of course the blog is going to give you biased information. LOL. You can't expect people to be unbiased when reporting on their friends.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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08-14-2006 09:12
Linden Lab jumps the shark.
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Lou Dobbs
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 57
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08-14-2006 09:13
I thought they jumped the shark a couple months ago?
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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
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08-14-2006 09:14
From: Cow Hand There probably is. Of course the blog is going to give you biased information. LOL. You can't expect people to be unbiased when reporting on their friends. I take issue with that. As far as I know, Canimal Zephyr was merely friendly with Kin Keiko (if she has even met her -- I have personally never met her). As stated, she was simply reporting what was written on Kin Keiko's boyfriend's profile. Do not insinuate things which you know nothing about.
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Queenie Extraordinaire
RockNGames Radio!
Join date: 3 Jul 2004
Posts: 336
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08-14-2006 09:15
From: VolatileWhimsy Bu I would like everyone to realize something, you all have the mob mentaility.. seriously.. Stop demaning things that are abseloute than being upset when it backfires... stop assuming things are one way, without getting all the facts. I can understand empathizing with the person getting banned.. and feeling the need to stick up for them.. but to assume you have the whole story and what you know is gospel.. is just not smart :/ Ya know what? When you have been around for over 2 years and see the stupid shit after stupid shit that LL does, maybe you'll have a slightly different view.
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