Gorean justice

Since two goreans standing there in gorean outfits is roughly the same as a fur or a vamp in their AV's, I would do nothing. Two goreans acting out their gor RP is FAR different than a vamp or a fur just shopping in costume. You goreans want to shop my store in costume, fine....RP your d/s there, not fine...same way I'd get bent if furs started yiffing or vamps playing out a feeding. But vamps and furs seem to have a lot more common sense and a HELL of a lot less arrogance than the goreans I have met, and do that sort of thing in their areas, acting like normal persons when shopping.



Mature or not, I pay tier on it...you don't...and the same way I would get instantly kicked out of gorean sims MERELY for having a non-gor AV, I am going to kick you if you start the d/s routine on my property, not because of your AV (notice I do show you more respect than I would get in return from gorean sims). There are a hell of a lot more furs, vamps, goths and just normally dressed folks than goreans ingame, so if I have to lose a customer, its going to be the unbending gorean like you that can't switch it off for the 5 minutes it takes to shop to avoid making others uncomfortable.



Its called being a considerate human being rather than an arrogant horse's ass. Being of an alternate lifestyle myself, I know my lifestyle bothers some folks RL and VR. I refrain from PDA's and discussions that would embarrass or bother others. Am I some how insulted that I alter my lifestyle a TINY fraction to accomodate other's feelings? Nope, I don't hide what I am if anyone asks...but I sure as hell am not going to arrogantly flaunt it and ram it in the faces of others that might be bothered. I, for one, am CIVILIZED and realize that social interaction is a give and take situation.



if the vamp is just sitting in the corner, nope...not going to do a damn thing. Merely being in costume is not offensive...master and slave can walk into my shop in full gorean outfit...not a word will be said. You start doing D/s RP (or the vamp doing feeding RP), both could be considered offensive to the bulk of my clientelle and I would object you both for it.

In the end, its not that you are gorean, but how you behave in my shop....same with vamps....same with furs. Walk in wearing full costume/AV, shop, fine. RP in such a way that it bothers or squicks others...your ass is out of there and it has nothing to do with being [fill in social group], but rather with being an arrogant, self-centered ass that cannot consider others feelings for even a few moments. Or shortened, you'd be banned for boorish behavior, not your community affiliation.

No... you're reading that wrong. It might be clearer if it had said "Racism is a belief system that maintains the essential value..."

Here, from dictionary.com:



You are right when you say that this is about beliefs, but racism doesn't target a person for their belief. It targets them for their skin color (I know I boiled that down a bit, Ordinal, but I was trying to make it clearer).

It is. It doesn't. You're highlighting the wrong bit. The belief systems are the racist ones. Read the whole sentence. The important bits are "according to a perceived or ascribed racial category" and "discrimination by race". Discrimination by belief system is... well, there are various terms, but it's not racism.

alright, so lets make a new phrase... "beliefism"

Well, the gorean sims aready do that, least the ones I have been to. Port in as a fur or non-human of any sort, even if you follow their rules, wear visitor tag, etc...you WILL get harassed, frozen, banned just for being in an AV...I know that first hand from mistakenly trying to go to a store in one of their sims. No one I know bans goreans on sight....they just ask you keep the RP off to not squick non-goreans (which, BTW, vastly outnumber you). But apparently equal treatment is something most goreans do not understand....and the same with consideration of others.

and AV sex is RP, but just because my store is public and has no posted rules, you can bet your gorean ass/furry tail/vampire fangs I am going to ban you on the spot if I catch you fucking in it. Its all about maintaining a civilized respect for your fellow player and not arrogantly trying to offend or otherwise 'freak the mundanes'....I have never seen a gorean show concern for others outside of gor, instead the ones I have met arrogantly demand we accept them in every way in our lands, but then post rules which instantly absolve them from equally fair treatment of visitors. But I guess when your lifestyle / RP consists totally of 'I'm right (master), you obey me (slave)' you get used to demanding your way everywhere and having a tantrum when others point out 'this is not gor, it is my land'.

I don't buy the 'you have to bend to us if we visit your land, but our posted rules say we don't have to bend to you if you visit ours' copout. I WILL not tolerate D/s displays on my land, public or no. I will ask you to stop and at the slightest show of arrogance, you're gone. So I would lose a few Gorean customers....like I said, there are a lot more non-goreans out there than goreans, so I know who I will keep happy.

Come in costume, fine....start to RP in a way that bothers other patrons/guests, not fine and I am not going to tolerate it and as long as I pay tier, I do not HAVE to tolerate it.

Maklin, I think in general we have the same thought on this.. at least I think

I said: "If an area INVITES the "General Public" in and does not set up guidlines that are clearly posted for guests, then you will get just that.. the General Public in ALL their RPing glory."

Never would I think about going to a store.. ANY store and having simulated sex. Would I go to a store and remain polite and respectful to my Master? Yes. Would I say things like "Yes Master" or "No Master"? Yes. Would I remain kneeling if he did not permit me to stand? Yes. Would I demand that others do the same? No.

I'm not asking others to BE Gorean, I'm asking to be allowed to be who I am in SL. To be allowed to kneel at my Master's feet and show him the same respect I do everywhere. I'm not asking to be allowed to go to your store, strip naked, plop myself down and have at it.

If I went to a Furry sim and was told ONLY furries could enter, I'd either down a Furry form or go elsewhere. I respect the rules of those who create places. If someone tells me flat out, No Goreans allowed.. No Kneeling allowed... No Collars allowed.. I'd not enter that land at all, since I will respect their choice and rules for their place (even if I dont agree with them), yet will not compromise the basic beliefs of my RP.

Let me ask this. If my Master took me to your land and if i called him "Master" (which is the only thing i call him not because i'm demanded to, but that is my way of letting him know i love and respect him above all else), i will be told to not use that term?

If my Master called me 'girl', which he frequently does, does that mean you will ask him to not call me that?

If we refused to not use the terms which is part of our fundamental belief upon your request, would that be grounds for banning as you can deem that as 'arogance' because we haven't adhered to your demand of us not having our free expression? Where is the line where one person has the right to demand another to be something they aren't because that person doesn't share the same belief?

The point is that there CAN be harmony if people would turn the other cheek to most minor incidents, such as hearing someone call someone Master or girl.

In reference to Goreans acting out sex acts as was mentioned in another post (compliling posts here). I've yet met a Gorean who enjoys going to a non-Gorean sim and hoping on pose balls for a public display of cyber. In fact, of all my time in Gor and the many many cities that makes it up in SL, i've run into TWO open chat situations where there was a cyber session going on. These were both done in the privacy of their own homes but in open chat and as i was walking by i 'stumbled' into it. When it comes to being with each other in that capacity, Goreans are pretty private about it. Mostly it's shared as intimate and tender moments which are in private. Most Gorean cities either allow skyboxes or Goreans have mainland homes for privacy. Not saying ALL are. But those who have open cyber to private are very very low on the percentage scale.

Also, just to add to some information. When we go to non-Gorean places, we dress accordingly. I wear full outfits, and not skimpy slutty ones. When i'm in non-Gorean places i actually have more clothes on then the 'mainlanders' who aren't Gorean. Such is the case with many many Goreans out there. My Master protects me from the oggling and the cat calls when we go to non-Gorean places and agrees to me being fully dressed.

In reference to the term 'racism', i read the information in an obvious different way then it was intended. Thanks to those who have offered more information to clear up my confusion. I stand firm in my statements of Goreans in general don't want to force collar non-Goreans. When you have joined a minority society which is always targeted for griefing because it's beliefs, you might have a better understanding of why Goreans are timid of mainlanders and some cities have put an out and out end to them coming into the main part of the sim. Their efforts to keep peace and harmony amongst the people who live there and wish to live in that solice.

And to me, that is a self-centered attitude to take. I would not RP in someone elses area without first asking. I do not take the absence of a written rule as a green light to doing as I please without consideration of others feelings.



I see no real difference if it bothers people. And even if there is no one around to bother, again I put the (potential) feelings of others ABOVE my own desires and can the RP. To do otherwise shows no consideration of others and a 'me and only me' mindset. Whether its an uncaring master or a slave that puts the RP above others feelings, the behavior is boorish in public.



This may come as a hell of a shock to you, but you cannot ALWAYS be what you want to be, whether in SL or RL. Insisting on doing so, and refusing to take into account other's feelings is going to generate dislike...and yes, based on past experiences, I detest gor and goreans....they have (in my experience, your mileage may vary) been rude, arrogant and utterly detestable folks that refuse to accept that outside of gor sims their behaviors are a MINORITY and actually might bother others. I consider it almost sociopathic from what I have seen.



That's just it. if you went to a furry sim as a human, the WORST that would happen would be a few of the moronic elements of that social group might make anti-human comments...and in most of the bigger ones (Furnation, Rainbow Tiger) the sim admins would, if notified, crush the moron like a bug. yes there is anti-human prejudice in furry areas..but it is not an encouraged, ingrained part of the system as it is in gorean lands. But no one would expect you to 'become furry' just to visit. Contrast this with the closemindedness of gorean sims that cannot tolerate a fur (who follows every other rule, including visitor tags) walking from port point to a shop just due to the AV*...but instead verbally harass, cage and then eject the visitor. I flat out do NOT find any tolerance in gorean culture, like you they all justify their shitty behavior by pointing to posted rules...yet they expect us to "let them be what they want" in our lands, just because we don't post rules.

Guess what? Outside of gor, most of that behavior is unwelcome (note I said behavior, not goreans). You really do NOT need a posted message on EVERY INDIVIDUALS PROPERTY to guess that your behavior is considered odd if not outright alien to most non-goreans. Consider it an invisible, posted list of behaviors not to do in non-gorean areas and you will be fine.


* IMO, if the AV breaks your immersion that much, you are one piss-poor group of RPers.

I agree with that, there is no need to post rules on every sim. However; if that sim is adament against a specific type of RP, it would be a great way to let those who are involved in that RP that their actions won't be tollerated. There could also be a note put into the lands description so RPers of all genres are aware if it's not tollerated or not and would give them a heads up. When they go there then they know for sure they are to act according to non-RP sim.

Alright, so in response, let me say that...
1. I'm offended by those who swear for the sake of swearing in public.
2. I am offended by those who use "gangsta" talk and write in a way that it takes you reading it over and over again a few times to understand what they are trying to say.
3. I'm offended by the furries I've seen QUITE a few times drop to the floor and begin licking themselves stating they are "just cleaning".
4. I'm offended by those who talk in baby talk and smother their partner in kisses.
5. I'm offended by those who in open chat discuss their on going drama.


So in your guidlines, I'm a potential customer and telling you I'm offended by those things.. are you going to allow them? Where is the line drawn?


In my former SL life I worked at a club where people were "offended" when a gay couple came in and god forbid talked lovingly to one another (not mushy babytalk), they were offended when they oh no SLOW DANCED together and OMG, they were so offended when the 2 men kissed. I had a few IMs from people who wanted me to boot them for being "that way" in public.
I was polite to those who IM'd me and kindly told them that I was not going to boot them. Now, had someone come in and been a griefer or if someone had come in and been outragious and actually had sex in the middle of the dance floor, they hell yes they would have been gone.
Just because people are offended doesnt make the act offensive.

At the arrival point of a gorean sim, apparently.

-Ghoti

[edited spelling error]

Yes, because you are not gor.



yes, because he is not in gor.



I would first ask you to leave if you cannot abide by my request as owner of the land, then if you refused, ban. You need to remember, SL is not the USA or even a democracy...your freedom of expression ENDS the second you cross a plot border onto land someone ELSE PAYS TIER ON. You have two options here (the ones you force on visitors to gor sims) - conform or leave. Trying to do otherwise on land you are NOT paying tier on is indeed arrogance of the highest caliber.



To you, it is a minor incident. To me it is a vile abuse of another person that makes me feel ill to be around. I know furs that have 'pets'....I avoid them too for the same reason.



No, the previous poster said by not posting rules we open ourself to all sorts of RP. I said cyber was a form of RP and I would ban for that too. I never accused goreans of public sex. I merely stated just because it is RP does NOT mean its automatically welcome...You show enough good judgement to realize public sex might offend others....why can't you see the rest of the gorean show (the bowing and scraping, the demeaning terms and behavior) might have the same effect?



Didn't mean to infer you did. And I would not care HOW you are dressed...but how you BEHAVE is what matters to me.



I wear a furry av, so you do not need to tell me about communities under attack. However, sealing off in little ghetto's does not work (as you have seen and most furry communities discovered), they seek you out.

On a personal note, I do not really consider myself furry regardless of AV...the fandom has a LOT of the same 'me! me! how dare you expect me to modify my outrageous behavior to conform to societal norms when in non-fur areas! me! me!' attitude that goreans have expressed repeatedly in this thread.

*snickers* Exactly! I am supposed to strip off my AV because it 'breaks their immersion' but when they come to MY land, they act all offended if I expect them to conform to my ideas of behavior. Hypocrites....

Again.. let me state clearly and in simple words.... have NO PROBLEM following rules of sims I visit if I am aware of the rules. If they are rules I do not wish to conform to, I will not visit.

Goreans tell you upfront what is expected if you are going to visit their city.

How is that hypocratic?

Would you think that this "me me me" that you speak of by Goreans is because it's Goreans who are being attacked? Of course it's about "me", "them", and "us"; for it's "me", "them" and "us" who are defending our beliefs in and of Gor.

By the way, what exactly is a 'social norm'? Wouldn't that depend on the opinions and views of the person who's acting accordingly to their own 'social norm'? Or is your vision of 'social norm' the one that's to be adapted by all who come within your presence?

Didn't i see you flaming in a thread specifically made and topic being of a new Gorean blog that's come online to promote Gorean products in SL? What's the purpose of going to that thread and adding flamatory posts which are totally counter productive to the pupose of the thread? I'm not saying this as an attack, it's a point i'm trying to make (although i'm sure you will see it as an attack) This is just one instance where people feel the need to voice an opinion on something when they see the opportunity to take something that's of good intentions and turn it into a personal rant venue.

In all honestly, i'm finding this whole thread becoming a mute point. The same accusations are being flung around. The same explanations are tried to be presented in the kindest of ways only to be turned around and made look bad or mean. Amongst all the mean things said, Gor isn't going anywhere. No one will run us out. No one will taint our images of the Gor that we ourselves know against those who don't. No one will "save the slaves", we don't wish to be saved for we are there of our own free will and desire.

My name is Dartavia Vesperia, ban me at will from your lands because i'm Gorean. I wish you all well in all you do.

*nods in strong agreement* It's like that grizzly bear in the woods, let him enjoy the woods and be a bear and he'll mind his own business. Take a big stick and start poking at him and he's going to defend himself.




Can think back to many conversations with my Master where I have said "if anyone tries to take this girl from her Master she will go kicking and screaming". There because I want to be, not because I have to be.

The name my Master allows me to have is carly sonic, la kajira, ban me if you wish.. loose the chance to gain the lindens in my pocket... loose the chance to meet someone you might actually enjoy speaking with.. loose well.. your loss.

Moved to General Topics.

Please be good to each other, and at least civil if you disagree. We have Guidelines:

/invalid_link.html

Wowie. I didn't read through the whole thread because ... well, I just didn't. But someone is banning slaves now?

I guess ban me too. Pff. I'm not losing my collar or apologizing for my choice for anyone.

I just asked the Goreans not to roleplay in my business and in my house. If she calls him master and he calls her girl it is not that big a deal. However the slave throwing itself at the master feet and other such displays are a problem. I would just ask them to leave. The rest depends on them. It is not the Gorean master or slave am banning but bad behavior.

What is this? I am not asking for either but respecting me and my house. I refuse to post a sign in my house asking for people to be good! My business so far has not been a problem so a sign has not been needed.
It is a lot harder for me to visit a Gorean sim where I have to dress corectly and roleplay the part of a "free women" or a slave in waiting depending on your point of view. All I asked for was no Gorean roleplaying for your visit to mine. I am not Gorean and will never be such, ok?

Ranma, it's very ok. In fact it's the way Goreans live as well. Come to their Domain, their Homestone and behave according to their rules. I'm SURE they will be observant to your Domain and house rules as common courtesy. If they don't then perhaps they aren't the goreans they claim to be.

Like I said, I didn't read back, so I was as much asking as anything.

As far as what you're saying goes, that's fine, as far as it goes, and I understand and respect it. On the other hand, my devotion to Mistress isn't really a roleplay thing, as I am actually, in fact, devoted to Her personally, not just Her in-world SL avatar.

It isn't like we act silly or anything anyway -- once you get past the one detail, we're pretty boring. But I suppose if it were a serious problem, I would simply remove myself from ... wherever, and that would be that.

Hmmm maybe I am using the wrong english. About your titles for each other perhaps it is social contract then?
Behave in a respectful manner and you will have no problem with me. Make me and my other quests uneasy and you will have to leave. It is hard to explain in a simple fassion. I suspect you would have no trouble with me.

Says the Groean Slave.