Gorean justice

Do the Gorean sims have a legal code that is generally accepted to govern their courts? And if so, is there any provision requiring a slave to be brought before a court to be sentenced to execution? May any city summarily execute its own slaves? What of a privately owned slave? And if a slave is executed and serves three days as a ghost, may that player be killed again upon his or her return to Gor for that same offense, for example attempting to escape?

Well, I am not a Gorean, but I play one on TV

My opinion....

Gorean slaves have no rights. They are animals. Execution would be like putting a horse down.

There are legal standards for humane treatment of animals, and all societies which harbored slaves had standards for their treatment. Leviticus in the Old Testament contains such rules. Plus, owners or those claiming to have ownership rights in a slave or a horse have legal interests to be protected.

I'm thinking that being executed as punishment for a crime is the same as being banned from the sim? but im not really sure.

Well, animals do have rights. Aside from that, if this is how a slave is seen (animals) then does it mean a Gorean having sex with their slaves is practicing bestiality? o.O;

replying to this in-line since some issues are crossing paths

Do the Gorean sims have a legal code that is generally accepted to govern their courts?
Yes. Gorean laws are based on "Merchant Laws" which are outlined in the "World of GOR" books. Each Gorean city/land will also have their own city laws.

And if so, is there any provision requiring a slave to be brought before a court to be sentenced to execution?
Yes. There are offences which are punishable by "death" of a slave.

May any city summarily execute its own slaves?
Yes. If that slave is found to have committed an offence defined as punishable by death.

What of a privately owned slave?
Doesn't matter. The laws are set out and all are aware of them, break them and be subjected to them.

And if a slave is executed and serves three days as a ghost, may that player be killed again upon his or her return to Gor for that same offense, for example attempting to escape?
Online it's impossible to 'kill' anyone. The RolePlay will be that the slave has broken an offense which is punishable by death and therefore it will be carried out. Some cities have a '3 day ghost' rule, some cities have a ban rule (where the avi can't return to simulate 'real' death of the avi). Each city will have it defined in their rules or will be easily accessable via a city Administrator.

Let me add a sidenote here. Let's all keep in mind that GOR is based on 26 published fictional novels, all stories leading from book to book. Online GOR is done in a roleplay scenario, as it's impossible to "reach out" and touch someone through your monitor.

Yes, slaves are considered property.
Yes, slaves can be bought and sold.
Yes, slaves can be killed for breaking laws.
THIS IS ALL CONSENTUAL

There is no way that an online entity can "legally" (meaning off-line) purchase a human, sell a human, or kill a human. THIS IS A FANTASY LIFESTYLE, even if some life the Gorean lifestyle in REAL life according to Gorean manners. It's still living a fantasy. Not much different then participating in a dinner theatre production, or a week end muder mystery. Everyone assumes a persona and they live it. Now that might offend some Goreans, for that i apologize. Living Gor isn't something that you turn on and turn off as easily as that. You simply are or aren't Gorean.

There are many misconceptions about GOR and the Gorean Lifestyle. Most comments revolve around (not limited to just these few examples) "exploitation", "abuse", "harassment", and "cyber addicts".

FIRST thing to remember: everyone who comes to GOR to play a Gorean entity (be it Master, Mistress or slave) ALL come on their own accord. THEY COME SEEKING GOR in Second Life.

Some know of the Gorean lifestyle. Some are curious and come to the cities to see it in 'action' and learn from their own observations and asking questions. Some come from the D/s Lifestyle who is looking for a more 'indebth' submissive experience.

NOT ALL GOR is mean.
NOT ALL GOR is nasty.

In general, no Gorean city will outwardly refuse anyone to enter if they are there with good intentions. There are rules to the RolePlay that all cities wish to keep, which is the matter of dress. When you enter a Gorean city willingly and knowingly, you also accept that it's a RolePlay environment and that there are specific requested and/or requirements for you to be there.

There are so many times when non-Goreans come to a Gorean city to 'preach' that they don't think it's right, or it's abuse, yadda yadda yadda. That's fine everyone is entitled to their opinions; however, everyone is there on their own free will and desire - what's the point? Grand conversion? Not likely. Being Gorean takes a very, very deep level of dedication and self-involvement to learn about the deepest parts of yourself that you didn't know was there until you learned how to be Gorean.

This sounds more like a rant then a simple answer to a post, sorry for that It's frustrating to us who have found enjoyment, love, encouragement and a GREAT RolePlay environment to have to constantly "watch our backs" with those who either don't understand or won't simply take a wee bit of time to open their minds to remotely trying to understand what it's all about.

me and my rl have been exploring the gorean culture. It is truly exciting and different with lots to learn. I love the roleplay environment and have never had a bad experience with it even just starting out. So for those of you that dont know, take the time to listen and learn and u might just come away with sumthing more positive.

does this thread belong in this section of the forums?

It may be irrelevant with the forums going away , I know .. but still.

You opened this can of worms...

Some times the harassment is not consentual.

There are people who go to the Gorean cities to check out the architecture and get harassed. Even after making sure they are dressed "correctly."

Or "force collaring" other's slaves or subs.

And then there are those who "recruit" at the welcome areas.

And then there are those you just randomly run into in nongor areas like shops and get harrassed.

Then again some would call a domestic violent relationship consentual between two adults.

While I agree that some slaves are truly consententing, I do not believe for a moment that every single one has not been manipulated emotionally or mentally into "consenting."

My questions are directed at the role playing of gor in second life. I get the impression that the rules are pretty much crafted simulation by simulation, with no overall Gorean structure to resove disputes which may arise between players or sims. It would seem that some sort of a co-ordinating body witha t least the ability to mediate disputes might be helpful. I invite others to comment. For example, a slave runs away from sim A and is allowed to play in sim B without punishment. Sim A finds out, and demands the slave to be returned for execution. Wouldn't it be good if a legal body could look into such claims and resolve them?

Roleplay is what I would consider the hardest to do...ie: you may go to a Gor city to observe and it is cool (as a female) to see some gal on her knees before a Mistress/Master doing the Gor thingy..but to actually get into the roleplay...my sister tried it...she said she found it worrisome that while being a slave of a very cool Master...she constantly had to worry about making a mistake before others (like not giving greetings to a Master/Mister or Huntrss asap when in their presence) simply because she had no desire to leave him (her master) for any reason but worried that making a mistake could put her relationship in jepoardy and she would be banned for doing something stupid...because of this ..when she wasnt with her Master she stayed on the main continent so where would not get into trouble. Of course maybe taking lessons might have helped but atm she has a bit of a broken heart because she felt she had to leave him before she caused him any problem by making stupid (innocent ) errors. Seems to me that this is rather stressful AND to say that a "slave" should be killed, etc, is ridiclous since the underlying problem could be the actual roleplay environment where a slave made a mistake not completely aware of all the MANY rules he or she must abide by. Actually, it sounds more like a prison for a slave, then anything else. MY IMHO

Missy, you are speaking about SL in general right? I mean..Gor in general, correct?

I think the government structure on SL works kinda like this

1) Lindens

2) The Land Owner where any particular event occurs.

3) everyone else

_____________________________

If the gorean sim owners wanted to give up some of their rights in order to have a multi-sim governing body it would be up to them.

It would of course be entirely un-enforcable since the Sim owner would still have all their rights according to the Lindens.

Of course these "slaves" all have the same rights as everyone else in SL. In that they have the same protections from harassment as their "Masters" I beleive that intellionally performing a character assasination on someone is againt the TOS.

The Land owners of course are justified in banning anyone that breaks their own rules from their land , just like any other land owner.

So that leaves me with a couple questions -

Would arrainging a Multi-Sim ban of anyone based on rumor and speculation violate the TOS?

Do you really think all these Gorean sim owners could even get along well enough to form such a government? - the theory seems to be they are supposed to be a bunch of Alpha Males.

*sighs* i'm so sorry to hear that your sister had a bad experience. It's not uncommon to hear of things that have gone wrong when it's then too late to try and correct it. Gor isn't perfect, by no means. Online Gor will *never* be perfect, by any standards. I sure didn't mean to paint that picture if it was perceived as such.

Unfortunately, there some "Masters" and "Mistresses" who think it's like, really narley and dood, this is just (heh) coool to have a slave type people who "crash" into Gor and doesn't have the first base clue on what Gor is even about let alone have a kajira. These are the types that paint the bad images that those who don't understand have of Gor in general. There are some of us who would spend time with people to help them understand Gor. Unfortunately, since there are so many deep emotions involved in Gor, some are hurt by it. It's very important to know that your level of dedication must meet the one of who you are sharing your Gorean experience with. If the Master/Mistress is hardcore Gorean, then the slave should be hardcore Gorean. Vice Versa. Too many 'mismatches' makes for a bad experience when it was just a simple communication issue at the start. And for the record, VERY FEW cities will 'sell' a slave to a Master/Mistress if they don't want to go to them. In fact, i don't know of any city who won't discuss the "match" with the slave to ensure that's in fact what she wants to do.

We are Gorean, but we are human too
Well wishes

Gorean justice: pelting the free with larma.

QFT & THE WIN

The same could be said for any kind of interaction, to a greater or lesser extent, between people in general and in any relationship, since absolute equality doesn't exist in respect of human personality & character. I think you're having to make the can of worms yourself here before opening it.

With all due respect, of course you know by first hand experience that anyone was banned based on rumor and speculation, yes?

Goreans (Master/Mistresses/slaves) aren't just 'banned' because "so and so" said they've done something. Gorean sims are governed strictly to codes of honor and laws according to the books. If someone is accused of a crime, they get their 'day in court'.

This is all part of my initial point. It's extremely hard to speculate on the 'ins and outs' of Gor. Its laws aren't open for negotiation. They have been clearly outlined for us when the novels were penned. We follow those principals and bring the printed word into virtual reality through SL, and dozens and dozens of other virtual spaces such as IRC, AOL Chat, ActiveWorlds, WoW, etc etc etc. Second Life isn't the only Gorean area online, but it very well could be the newest.

In question of the "gorean government" statement. I've pointed out several times that there is a governing factor to Gor - the Laws. Each city uses those to maintain law and order within their cities. A unified Governement? Not 100% possible due to some cities being at 'war' with each other according to the books -- which is part of the roleplay.

Also, who's theory did you speak of? If there is a theory of Goreans being nothing but alpha males, i'd sure like to read it.

I missed this, but i'll do my best to help clear it up.

There is common Gorean Law which is called "Merchant Law". These Merchant Laws contain all the laws which affect all aspects of Gor.

Each city will have it's own Laws. These are laws much like 'rules to be here in this sim'. Such as ...
Not all cities have a forced collar rule. Which means that a Free Woman (Mistress) is safe from being forced into slavery by her own actions.
Not all cities have a safe zone market place. Which means that unowned (uncollared) slaves are safe from being claimed as a slave while they are shopping there

etc, etc,

Inter-City govnerment is done through a Praetor or Magistrate. Each city either has or tries to have, either a Praetor or Magistrate as a citizen to handle all legal matters. If city A has an issue with city B, they go to one of the appointed legal handlers. They discuss the issue and come up with a common agreement to settle it.

In regards to a slave running from a city. That slave can be listed as a runaway and the cities are notified. If the slave shows up and is caught, then the original Master/Mistress i contacted and they have a set amount of time to come reclaim the slave. If they chose not to, then the slave becomes a slave of the city she's caught in or is given to someone. Whatever that new city decides.

A word on the "runaway" slave. Just as the "assmasters", there are 'assslaves". Meaning they aren't slave, they are just there for a quick and cheap thrill and once they don't get what they want, they run away. A serious Gorean won't care, nor will chase after them as it's just too much drama. That slave quickly earns a bad reputation as a 'disney gorean' and then you never hear from them again. But rest assured, they make an alt (or a dozen) quick enough to continue with the drama.

Of Course I do , and of course they are. It depends on the Sim.



Not always, Ex Post Facto is fairly common. As is uneven justice for the Ubar/ Admin's friends



Many sims have laws that change weekly - and dont bother including a revision history so you know what the changes are.
In addition some sims have very thin sets of laws that couldnt possibly cover most situtions.
And many of those interpreting the laws havent read the books you site as their inspiration.



It would be possible to have an OOC goverment that would be neutral in the Role play wars. It just would be highly improbable - since it would mean giving up autonomy. And likewise would be unenforceable - since the land owner has the ultimate authority after LL.




I was reffering to the vast majority decision and policy makers - who are men. Men of Gor are supposed to be "True Men" unencumbered by any constraints of feminism or women's liberation. Hence - to the non gorean - an "Alpha Male" >> I picked this term since chuavenist pig would have been contrary to the discussion. And in the sense that Gor is male dominated, more relevant.

1) The owner of the SIM/REGION, or Ubar/City Administrators makes all laws, and does whatever he or she wishes.

2) I will keep this short and tell you that far too many Goreans indulge in psychopathic behavior, and they call it "roleplay."

3) Goreans like everyone else want numbers, and they do a terrible job of policing the conduct of their members.

4) Yes, like anything else, there are a few good people in Gor. Finding them is difficult.

5) Stay out of Gor unless you are hardened, have thick skin, no emotions, and care do not about others.

s/ Cal Alexander

This probably explains both the original posters complaint - AND - why so many Gorean sims are so much different than what Dartavia describes.

Basically any Sim/organization/club/group in SL is only as good as the people who make it up.

I do not understand why a runaway slave is outside of the acceptable Gor roleplay and the capture/stealing of the same slave is within the normal bounds of play. Captured warriors try to escape, and are not banned for doing so. Why the condemnation of the escaped slave who
seeks refuge in another sim according to it's rules?

I love that reply....counts to ten and waits for all the Dommabe's to start whining...
rain