What I been sayin'

You can try to convince yourself that because these are different divisions that one thing has nothing to do with the other.

But they DO. It's simple. (*Flails around for analogy*) It's like somebody was selling games for Nintendo 64. They kept coming out with really cool games for it! But the Nintendo 64 machine ITSELF wouldn't work right and wouldn't RUN the games.

So what damn good are the games? (The Lindex.) The machine won't play them! (SL itself.)

That's why it's relevant.

coco

So the people who make the games should all go on indefinite vacation, or sit around doing nothing, maybe play some poker there in the office, while these other people work on the Nintendo 64 machine?

Explain how that helps.

Y'all are silly. I have academic credentials out the kazoo, awards all over my wall, top of my class, that whole business, along with being at the top in my career.

Talking about grunting and all that just makes you all look silly.

Part of being smart and being educated is asking questions and trying to understand things. It's how I got to BE so successful.

Part of being an educator, a teacher, or even an intellectual, is being able to answer these questions without all this silly defensive condesension.

Just a little tip for ya's.

coco

Uh.

Games are developed for consoles by independent developers. Nintendo made some games, but many others were made by independent developers. You also needed the games in order to get any value out of the console. You don't need Lindex to use Second Life.

That analogy, in addition to making no sense at all, applies not at all to the subject at hand.

You should post about... scrapbooking... or something.

This I would say is it in a nutshell. This is what I've been trying to say.

coco

I have a car. It drives me nowhere when I don't put gas in it.

Which is what Coco was trying to say, minus the technical app/talk - and Eboni implied, and Enabran implied, and Jonquille implied - and then some people gave Coco a big whack on the head.

C'mon, people.... Y'all said it yourselves, over and over - there's room here for everybody.

k.

Except that has nothing to do with what you've been talking about.

No - but they should stop forcing updates that don't work so they can put in all these cool things they like.

If the new Nintendo games are going to break the machine that plays them, then they need to NOT release the new Nintendo games until they can be sure they are not going to break the machine that plays them.

coco

The expression is "out the wazoo".

It is not a very small quibble, it is the ENTIRE issue. None of the development of LindeX involves anything with the actual Second Life desktop viewer client or the server software. It involves web and database development. I am a web application and database developer in RL - that is my expertise and one I make a excellent living at. I am not a 3d graphics developer, which is also a highly specialised development field (I would like to spend more time with it, but other than experimenting a bit with making some games, my experience is limited). I could not just stop what I am doing and jump in full speed to work on a project that is outside my area of expertise, like a 3d graphics engine for a game. That would be silly, and unproductive.

Linden Lab is applying available resources to needs that they have. Whether you agree with Lindex or not in principle, it is not part of the issue here at all. Raising the Lindex development as some type of indictment of Linden Lab for not dropping everything and moving its web developers to fix the problems in the SL client just is not fair, or realistic.

Linden Lab certainly has some development issues that need to be solved. It is more a matter of process and testing than it is expertise or lack there of. Microsoft has tens of thousands of developers, and the complexity of their systems and their need to maintain compatibility across a wide variety of versions of Windows and a wide variety of hardware and software combinations makes the development of patches and updates complex, and why they often have issues after the fact. They could pull the developers who are doing the XBOX graphics support to work instead over in the WIndows division making patches, but it would help neither side if they are working outside their expertise and skill set.

Second Life has a complexity that makes it extremely difficult to update - even small changes can potentially break something unexpected. Multiply that by two platforms (and an upcoming third platform), not to mention all the various video card and computer hardware combinations out there (along with dependence on third party software like Quicktime and video card drivers), and you have a very complex upgrade process.

This release certainly has proven that something is wrong with their development process, and I hope they learn from it, but they will resolve what is happening now. It is not the end of the world, and no amount of blame and second guessing what they should be doing is going to get it resolved.

Seriously. Stop. My cheeks are starting to burn sympathetically.

Do you want them to fire Peter? Is that what you are asking them to do? Even if they pulled all of the member that were working on all the other projects, it would not help 1.7 at this point. LL did not expect 1.7 to explode the way it has. It sounds to me that there are some nasty bugs with textures that were not corrected, or found, in the testing that was done. All of the other projects we started while 1.7 was under devolopment. There is nothing that can be done now that LL has not been doing already.

Coco, look at it like this. As Dnate points out, they are trying to hire quality control people, which would help clean up issues like this. They ARE trying to throw more money at it, and the way I see it is that if I wanted help with a very complex scripting project, and had hired you(going on the assumption that you don't have a large amount of scripting knowledge, I appologise if I'm wrong) to help me with building and texturing... Then my script was really screwed up and didn't work... I would still pay you to keep building and texturing and pushing forward, while looking for someone who knows about scripting to clear up my problem - I wouldn't ask you to try to help me with a complex script that you can't help with, I wouldn't say, "well, you have the next month off while I try to get help making the script work", I would let you keep pushing foward and making the best possible build with the best possible textures, while trying to make the script work using other resources.

I'll agree that it can be frusterating to see other developments when the main product itself needs to be fixed. But it's not without reason.

Am I the only one that read the original post, and the post it quoted?
It was not saying, "Hey, we need better performance!"
It was saying, "Hey, stop working on LindeX and work on performance instead."

So no, that's not what Coco, or Snakekiss, were saying. Those are two very different things, as has been pointed out several times.

Stop, you are turning me on.

Exactly.

LindeX didn't break Second Life.

Eggzackly!

Make sure the Second Life is going to keep working before you insert any new cool features into it that breaks it. (Not Lindex, in this case, but whatever did break it.)

coco

Are you doing this to toy with us or do you actually think this way?

No, you have "that them piece of paper with the words on the wall, i went to the place with the learning and the learnie-people for a long time, and someone once said i did a good job so i guess i'm good".

Is that more clear?

For someone so "learned", and especially for someone so eager to toss your theoretical credentials into a web forum, you sure seem fairly oblivious to the world around you. It's not like you've never used SL before. You've been using it for 3/4ths of a year. Being ignorant of its most basic workings is scary indeed, doubly so for a supposed degree holder.

As a side note, credentials don't mean anything. At the low-level retail job I work at, I work with:

a) a bachelor's in history,
b) two mechanical engineer bachelors
c) a bachelor's of journalism
d) a bachelor's in psychology
e) a bachelor's in construction management

Along with probably half a dozen people with Associate Degrees.

Average pay? 7 bucks an hour.

Credentials != teh smartz.

LF

I think we'd already established that a few posts ago.

Damn straight, Enabran. Now if people would just stop being so stingy with your knowledge and give me the damn gas!

coco

Let me try a different analogy and see if it helps.

Your husband is mowing the lawn. It's a job that really, really needed doing.
You're inside with the children. All of a sudden, the kids are hungry! ...But your husband is mowing the lawn, and it really needs mowing! Oh my god, what are you going to do?! How are you supposed to feed the kids when the lawn is still such a mess! Should you wait until the lawn is all manicured and perfect to feed the kids?

No, you shouldn't. They're two seperate jobs, and each can be done by different people without affecting the other. He can mow the lawn. You can feed the kids. No sense in not feeding the kids just because the lawn isn't done.

You're not getting anywhere with this.

It's not me who talks down to people when they ask me questions. It's not me who insults them.

THAT is the point. The point is - you have no idea who it is you are insulting when you insult them. So you ought to just stop, and either answer the questions politely, or don't answer them and get the hell out of the thread.

coco