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Forum Guidelines: Discussion with Katt Linden |
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
![]() Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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08-11-2008 13:39
Two words come to mind: work-safe.
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Saiki Spirt
Chaos,Panic,Disorder.DONE
Join date: 1 Jun 2008
Posts: 187
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08-11-2008 13:52
Two words come to mind: work-safe. lmao. yea true.. but I can see the "no adult links" , etc. stuff, but in certain points and certain things stretch these limits in text (not images) sometimes this is needed. _____________________
They call me Crazy, I say they're crazy!
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Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
![]() Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
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08-11-2008 15:40
More smilies! ![]() ![]() ![]() (See how fun they can be?) ![]() _____________________
Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality! I put on my robe and wizard ha... Oh. Nevermind then. |
Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
![]() Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
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08-12-2008 07:43
My needs here are simple. The forums as they are largely fill those needs, but I could see some changes that I think would improve things.
I would love to see an "all things SL" type forum. Akin to general discussion of the past or resident answers of now. Humans as a general rule need a place to just chat. It's in our nature to want to share our accomplisments and desires, and will always happen no matter how hard one tries to avoid it. At the least, having it would go a long way towards keeping other areas tidy. We do need a "resident answers." It fills an important niche, allowing people to get feedback that does not warrant an "official" designation. Some questions don't fit the existing (and good) scripting tips/texture/etc. forums and do fit well in a Resident Answers format. I like seeing discussions like the one on mainland with Jack, or this one here. It's good for giving us residents a certain amount of "buy in" (even though, to be honest, I sometimes feel like we're not really being asked a question, but are expected to affirm what it being told to us). It's also a good use of some of SLs passionate voices. More of these. Maybe formalize this somehow. I think there is a need for a forum ban to include an inworld component. I can't think of any examples where this would apply, however. Certainly for some seriously extreme cases, perhaps. I see the opposite -- inworld bans that include a forum ban -- being much more important. "Disemvoweling" sounds like a cute thing. Usually I like cute things. To be honest, thoguh, this sounds like more work than it's truly worth. I would dearly love to see a technical update of these forums, or at least see the bbcode that was turned off restored to full functionality. IMO it's important for LLs forums to be as forward thinking as their core product. I prefer that forum moderation includes a line explaining that locked threads will include a moderation reason for locking it. That is in the current guidelines, and I think is an important thign to remain there. Mari _____________________
![]() "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden "If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world ![]() |
Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
![]() Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
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08-12-2008 08:22
on banning, if you have to ban someone in-world for their activities on the forum, wouldn't a ban of that sort not actually warrant a complete ban from SL per se, or if we say no one can be that bad to be banned completely from Second Life then, for whatever they do on the forums it would be wrong to ban them from in-world activities at all. seems like a 'want my cake and eat it' situation.
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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08-20-2008 07:34
I'm a little concerned about the url for GavinLeigh's blog getting moderated out of the Burning Life thread. It doesn't seem to be against the rules.
Will there be a different set of guidelines for the Linden forums? Getting those out in the open, even just in draft form, would be a really great idea. Things like that can quickly lead to bad feelings and the thread turning into a discussion on moderation tactics instead of a discussion on the topic. |
Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
![]() Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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08-20-2008 14:59
I'll vote along with Des and others for separate penalties for forum and in world violations.
Not just because of the economic risk. I've seen that many people behave differently in the forums and in world. Folks who are blunt to the point of rudeness here can be great people if you meet them in world, and vice versa. The RA forum in world group, The Forum Cartel, has a rule: What happens in the forums, stays in the forums. LL should consider adopting a similar policy. _____________________
It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd |
Saiki Spirt
Chaos,Panic,Disorder.DONE
Join date: 1 Jun 2008
Posts: 187
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08-20-2008 19:09
The RA forum in world group, The Forum Cartel, has a rule: What happens in the forums, stays in the forums. LL should consider adopting a similar policy. quote ftw. _____________________
They call me Crazy, I say they're crazy!
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Jamma Newt
small and tasty
![]() Join date: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 70
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08-21-2008 14:27
I'm a little concerned about the url for GavinLeigh's blog getting moderated out of the Burning Life thread. It doesn't seem to be against the rules. Will there be a different set of guidelines for the Linden forums? Getting those out in the open, even just in draft form, would be a really great idea. Things like that can quickly lead to bad feelings and the thread turning into a discussion on moderation tactics instead of a discussion on the topic. I'd like to second that question and hope Katt gets a chance to pop in and address it in a little more detail than might be appropriate over in the BL thread. Looking at GavinLeigh's Burning Life blog, the link to which was edited out by Katt for being against the forum guidelines, I struggle to see exactly which part of the guidelines is being applied here. The only paragraph I would hazard to guess is being referenced is the rule against advertising: Advertising - Advertising is not allowed on the forums. Posts containing Spam, real-world commercial advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are expressly forbidden. Also, please do not post any affiliate or referral links, or post anything asking for a referral. Such posts will be subject to removal. This includes using the forum private message system to spam other members. However, as stated previously, GavinLeigh's blog sells no products or services, includes no advertising beyond a "support this site" button, and contains only observations, images, commentary and comments on Burning Life, and has done so for the previous two BL events as well. Katt's response in the other thread sounds pretty final, and I'm left guessing that she's referencing the line about referral and/or affiliate links, which are clearly recognizable marketing tools. Again though, since GavinLeigh's blog is not promoting a business or service, I'm unclear on the appropriateness of this interpretation. /347/7e/277342/3.html#post2117550 It is against Forum guidelines to promote your website outside of the Resident Run Websites area. I understand why you feel you'd like to do so anyway here, but others aren't allowed to do so elsewhere in the forums, so allowing you do so is pretty hard to justify, as a moderator. Carrying this thought further, my real question is as follows: are we to interpret the rules as forbidding any sort of links to entries on personal blogs, outside conversations or articles that might be relevant to a thread? Linden clarity on this question would be helpful, and perhaps additional wording could be added to the guidelines to help avoid future misunderstandings. |
GavinLeigh Wake
Registered User
![]() Join date: 8 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
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Strange how it works.
08-21-2008 16:29
The weirdest thing about having my blog website link removed is that it's been mentioned on the Official Second Life Blog before. Torley Linden even placed a link on there a couple of years ago at this posting:
http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/09/11/burning-life-getting-the-word-out-and-burning-the-man/ Personally I didn't think it was a problem mentioning my blog when the vburn.org site is also owned by a resident and is basically considered an "official" site. The website-that-cannot-be-named has always strived to be a helpful stopping point for people new to the festival and has provided useful material to them. My role as a commentator on the festival has brought me into conflict and the members of this years organization probably have issues with me personally (which doesn't help my site's cause). Luckily I have had strong support from the residents, and I hope that continues. |
Jesse Barnett
500,000 scoville units
![]() Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 4,160
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08-21-2008 16:43
I have been a very vocal critic of using vBulletin 3.0.5 for a long time now. LL continued to allow the use of bbcode for a year after a critical security flaw was published about this version. BBcode was finally disabled and it has now been years, not months since v 3.0.5 was rendered obsolete. On 4/29/08 vBulletin officially declared that 3.0.0 through 3.5 were at "End of Life" and defunct. vBulletin is now at version 3.7.2, having been rebuilt many times and fixing a multitude of security vulnerabilites.
Residents are forced to log into the forums, which just so happen to use an http, not https, address and void software with the same account info tied to our inworld accounts. The same accounts that in some circumstances, would give any low level hacker several thousand dollars for a few minutes work. Either fix the forums and post a timeline stating when this is going to happen or have a Linden categorically state here that using the forum as it stands is 100% safe. That is if you could actually find a Linden stupid enough to make such an outlandish assurance. So the question has been asked here in the forums a multitude of times. The question has been asked in sldev. The same question was posted in an open letter to Phillip. In all cases the question has been ignored and no answer given. So let us try one more time: When will the forum be updated? Without an accompanying security upgrade, any talk of Forum Guidelines is equivalent to putting expensive perfume on a pig. Jesse Barnett _____________________
I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime.
I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum |
Jamma Newt
small and tasty
![]() Join date: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 70
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08-21-2008 18:57
/347/7e/277342/3.html#post2117897
... 2) The fact that we ask *everyone* posting in the forums to restrict their promotion of their own web sites *in the forums* to the Resident Run Websites area isn't anything complicated, it's a simple guideline we ask everyone to follow. ... Katt, you've said it again and there's no questioning the fact that you're a Linden with the authority to say these things, but again I'm going to ask: Where in the publically viewable forum guidelines is this written (with link if possible)? This is important so that we can understand and discuss what's allowed and what's not allowed, which is what this entire thread is about if I'm not mistaken. It should be clear by the ongoing queries in the BL thread that none of us out here can seem to find the rules you're referencing to make this statement, and there's a world of interpretation between even your statements and the current reality of how links to other Resident blogs are allowed and scattered throughout that thread and the rest of the forums. |
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
![]() Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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08-21-2008 22:53
There's a stickied thread in the texturing forum that consists of links to resident run websites, stickied by Jeska Linden at Torley Linden's request. This doesn't seem to jibe with this new interpretation.
Our forum profiles include a field for our homepages. I suppose we aren't allowed to fill them out now, since our profiles aren't in the Resident Run Websites forum. I guess one can create a link to their blog, etc., in the Resident Run Websites forum, and then link to that thread elsewhere in the forums, since a thread in the Resident Run Websites forum is not itself a resident run website. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
reeneebob Birmingham
Registered User
Join date: 7 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
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08-23-2008 04:02
My concern?
I am a 2 year resident now, paid premium, landowner - and just haven't posted on these boards. Now, I am seeing posts being edited by mods and the notation is "I see this is the first post you've made on these forums". That, frankly, terrifies me. I didn't realize my $80 a year + L$ buys didn't matter, and I wouldn't be allowed to voice an opinion on the forums without it being edited and the reason given is "you don't post enough". |
Karl Herber
Registered User
![]() Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 228
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08-23-2008 04:41
I am getting very VERY disturbed, confused and angry about the removal of all URLs from any forum except "Resident Websites" even when those urls are to non-commercial websites. I can find parts of the Forum guidelines which prevent posting of commercial advertising, but nothing where it says that a link to an external, non-commercial informative site is also not allowed.
It's a shame because there would, I expect, have been a lot of really useful, non-commercial information about Burning Life and now that's all lost and residents here aren't allowed to see what it was. Katt, you need to either add that instruction "NO URLS FOR ANYTHING OF ANY SORT EVER AT ALL " in the guidelines, or else stop moderating them. _____________________
http://karlherber.wordpress.com/
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Daman Tenk
Registered User
Join date: 4 Jun 2008
Posts: 6
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08-23-2008 04:57
I am getting very VERY disturbed, confused and angry about the removal of all URLs from any forum except "Resident Websites" even when those urls are to non-commercial websites. I can find parts of the Forum guidelines which prevent posting of commercial advertising, but nothing where it says that a link to an external, non-commercial informative site is also not allowed. I agree. The way Katt Linden is currently ruling the forums with her iron fist is way over the top. I guess this is the reason they moved comments from the blog to the forum. So they could more easily put out any possible dissent. |
Karl Herber
Registered User
![]() Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 228
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08-23-2008 05:08
Frankly it scares me that the penalties for breaking a rule in the Forums are so severe (anything up to and including an in-world-ban) and yet the behaviour thats currently being moderated doesn't seem to have anything in the Guidelines to show that it is against any rule at all. I can find nothing in the Guidelines that forbids links to non-commercial websites, and yet these are still being deleted.
So... the impression it gives is that (---moderator who I'm probably not allowed to name---) is just making up the rules as she goes, without actually telling anyone what they are. _____________________
http://karlherber.wordpress.com/
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reeneebob Birmingham
Registered User
Join date: 7 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
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08-23-2008 05:20
It doesn't make LL look good, when a Linden moderator is so heavy handed that people are actually scared to post.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
![]() Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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08-23-2008 06:14
Actually -
Is this just systematic of a general LL communications failing? In that they have instituted a number of new rules in Second Life without documenting them well in the TOS/CS They seem to think a notation in the Blog is fine. A News letter approach to the rules-of-the-road. ------------------------------ Katt, Robin, and whoever else - I hope you can see it from our side, the official rules change, but the rules we can read stay the same. It makes us as Residents unsure of what we can do. After all we might have missed this Blog post saying we cant do this or that Forums post saying we shall not do that. |
Colette Meiji
Registered User
![]() Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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08-23-2008 06:17
It doesn't make LL look good, when a Linden moderator is so heavy handed that people are actually scared to post. I don't think people are afraid to post because of the current Moderator's moderation style I think they are afraid to post because of the Nuclear Deterant of an In-World ban LL chooses to keep around. |
Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
![]() Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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08-23-2008 06:52
i warned you all that you just might end up wishing you had strife back
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Sarah Nerd
I BUY LAND
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 796
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08-23-2008 08:24
i warned you all that you just might end up wishing you had strife back ![]() I feel a little bad now for all the mean things I said about Strife's moderation. Turns out he was pretty lenient with us. |
Karl Herber
Registered User
![]() Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 228
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08-23-2008 08:34
I think they are afraid to post because of the Nuclear Deterant of an In-World ban LL chooses to keep around. Yes, that. Plus, not knowing what the Forum Guidelines actually are, because the ones being enforced are not the same as the ones published. _____________________
http://karlherber.wordpress.com/
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
![]() Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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08-23-2008 11:15
Yes, that. Plus, not knowing what the Forum Guidelines actually are, because the ones being enforced are not the same as the ones published. Yeah so now its like a nuclear minefield. |
Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
![]() Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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08-23-2008 13:37
i warned you all that you just might end up wishing you had strife back ![]() QFT. I've abandoned any hope that this forum will be improved, we'll just keep getting the occasional lip service from on high, followed by rounds of speculation and it will all be the same. The Providers can't keep the information on the Website accurate and current, let alone bring this place up to speed. . The site and forum should be the portal to their product, keeping it in good form should be a priority, not item Z on their stupid TAO. They should do their customers a favor and sell SL to a company that knows what they are doingand willcare about the product...if one exists. |