sincere question about tipping in clubs

I am getting the scripted devices to make it possible to do so. I plan to start in September. Along with some cooperative Live Performers we should be able to market this correctly. I can't loose any money from such an experiment - so I have no concerns about it not working. I will just adjust the new model until it is workable.

This is a curious conclusion - since Live Musicians are charging more than they ever have for a 45 minute show and are averaging a minimum of $1,000L per show. This shows that people have a entertainment budget.

Absolutely correct and its been that way ever since Open registration started.

As Second Life has grown since the amount spent on L$ per PERSON has gone down.

So even though the economy grew overall, the per-capita did not, and people are cheaper than ever.

Now I'm confused. Wasn't the whole point exactly that people *do not* pay this? So that would only show that *musicians think* that people *should* have an entertainment budget. (And implicitly do not care whether people do or not, leaving it up to the venue to cover the rest, one way or another).
Edit: Or, is that charging the venue more *plus* averaging 1000 in tips?

I do not know of any Live Musicians that say that they do not get tips. The venue owners are saying the Musician may get all of the tips and the venue's contribution is taken for granted - therefore cover charges must be implemented to remind the general public to share that tip money amongst the entire entertainment team.

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As a former DJ of a couple of clubs in SL, DJ's have the hardest job. They are constantly taking requests, spinning music, keeping music ready to go, entertaining people on air, and hosts would be the next thing down in which they also put their work in with keeping people entertained and happy.

So the big question is - WHY do club Dancers get tipped? They do absolutely nothing. You have the DJ's spinning the music, hosts keeping people entertained, and owners who provide the club...but the dancers, they come in, and hit the dance animation and that's it! Yet, they still expect to be tipped...go figure. I recently resigned from a club in SL because management insisted dancers be tipped.

I pay dancers $55L a hour plus all of their tips. These people are unofficial greeters - they provide a service. The dancer will never make as much as the DJ - so there is no need to hate on them for making enough in a week to buy a new outfit.

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Wait, were you a dancer or a host or a dj? if you were a dancer I can't see why you'd resign for them insisting that you get paid money, if you were a dj or host I can more or less understand because that means you would very likely get tipped less.

Walk a mile in my heels Slip and then we'll talk. You have no idea what your talking about!

OK firstly unless you present your data then you have nothing as far as your argument is concerned.

In any event I never meant club figures are dwindling generally, I meant that *paying* figures are dwindling

When I go looking for a place to club when most people are not in then the majority of the well known clubs do not have a DJ running and events, they have few people or have campers/zombie dancers/bots to keep give the impression that the place is occupied.
I tend to search for the word club, party etc. then I open the map - if there are green dots there I go visit. If the av's there do not have people behind them or the people are nowhere near the club itself then I tp to the next place. I have real difficulty finding places that have good occupation except for a few BDSM style places like House of V at the times between 2am and 6am which shows me that the vast majority of clubs do not have a 24 hour occupation like you indicated.

Based upon my own experiences of seeing what goes into tip jars when I am at clubs and from testimonies of people in the forums that people are becoming more reluctant to pay for dancers, DJ's and other common club tipping types. You are right I have no other data but I suspect your visitor book data does not have those figures either. If you do then I invite you to present them and prove me wrong. On the other hand invite others to go look for themselves and make up their own mind.


You have provided no facts or data either. See above for my stance, experiences whilst not hard data should not be discounted. I do not have an agenda here, I have nothing to gain from my observations and the experiences of people is valuable information.

Even if you do have some data and facts - it is only collected at your 4 clubs which are hardly representative of the hundreds if not thousands of other clubs. I don't even know what clubs you run. List them here and if they are as good as you say with 24 hour events, DJ etc, I would be happy to check them out as finding a club with good *real* occupancy during the time I go looking is hard.

This is BS, many well known clubs have consistent empty periods from about 2am to 6am. Give me a few examples of the places you suggest, I would love to be able to go there when I want to visit a club with people in them during this time.

I have never been to a club that has asked for a cover charge, so either they do not exist or are lost in the noise. Please provide examples of well occupied (with real people) places between 2am and 6am that ask for a L$50 cover charge and have events.

Oh, ok - well I do not know where your getting your doomsday numbers from. I see 61,000 avatars online now, 59,000 Last night and 66,000 on Saturday. I see the Linden Lab start screen boasting a increase in memberships. That does not translate into less people.

Suffice it to say that some venue owners make their venue work without bots - and those are the ones that will survive any pay-to-play transition.

You would need to check out some Australian clubs at that hour. We yanks have to sleep sometime. Although when I have logged on at that hour I have seen a few people wandering around in venues - any venue that advertises consistently would not be completely void of human life for 4 hours.

The cover charge device that was given to us in 2006 was flawed so the plan fell through. Turning on the pay land feature pays the group - which is a big hassle. A new device for pay-to-play is being worked on - so hopefully by the end of Summer something can be distributed to the venues. As long as the Live Musicians support such a change then it should go over ok.

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I meant less people willing to pay for club use - not general SL, or even club going numbers - sheesh are you not reading this at all?

I do check out all the popular clubs I can find when I want to go and there are a few but these are very very few. I never said devoid of life for 4 hours either - stop putting words in my mouth. A place that has a lot of empty time can still have few people from time to time too. This is what I see, it does not translate into a great club experience or 24 hour coverage.

So by your own admission you are not changing the world or at least yet so your ideas are in fact unproven. Changing the mindset of the vast majority of non-paying people into paying customers is a huge hurdle to overcome. When you have overcome that hurdle, that is the time to crow about it.

But people are going to clubs to see more and more performers - and performers are charging Venue owners more for their services because of their high demand. I still do not see how you can say that less go to clubs when the entertainment in clubs consistantly increase their fees and boast good tips. Most everyone in this thread saud they tip the performer. So to be able to tip your favorite performer you will need to pay $50L at the door. Or he puts you on his guest list and you enter for free. I see nothing wrong with that.

I do check out all the popular clubs I can find when I want to go and there are a few but these are very very few. I never said devoid of life for 4 hours either - stop putting words in my mouth.I already mentioned a non-tier SL and the transition to a tier-paying SL. Painful but effective and proven quite effective.

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So you still are not reading what I put. I never said less and less people are going to clubs, just less and less are paying anything whilst there. I have experience and other peoples testimonies on other threads that back that up.

On the live front - there are virtually no live performers on that I can tell during the week between the hours of 2am and 6am. So my words are definitely dealing far more to the clubs without live performers. From what I said earlier you can tell I am talking about Party goers - not jazz clubs or anything like that. Those people are less likely to want to change the type of entertainment they will just find other parties to hook up with that are free instead of being forced to pay.

I would even go as far as to say that newbies are not really flocking to live performances in jazz clubs en masse. They are flocking to party places en masse after orientation but they are for the most part not paying anything.

I must have missed your analogy about tier/non-tier so I am not sure what you are talking about but there is a decline in tier paying accounts according to the Lindens own figures.

Your assertion that your way is proven cannot be true if you have not been taking upfront fees before and the party-going club world does not seem to be changing in the direction you indicate.

There are plenty of crowds, but few members of the crowd are bothering to tip anything to those that are performing.


And many only tip the house and not the unpaid workers that only get tips

The problem is, since stipends etc. disappeared for most users, you always have to bear the question in mind: "is someone going to go to their credit card for this?"

In the vast majority of cases, the answer is no.

And as soon as you start to enforce payment - they will start looking at other options for their fun.

While I agree that ultimately the only way were ever going to have Clubs/Entertainment be viable is for customers to pay for their fun ...

I won't believe people will pay until I actually see it happen.

And people wonder why places that rely on the pass system are so few and far between, the system is in place for people to have to pay for entertainment both with the built in system and of course lsl scripting but as long as there is one place that offers the same experience that you (the you club owner not you you) do and they don't charge you can't charge or people will go to them for free and not pay you. That of course is different if you offer something unique that nobody else has and that's a big enough draw but it's tough if even possible.

I completely agree. Its not that I am saying things should be this way just that there are this way and anything to change it is fighting a huge amount of inertia.



You have it exactly, it is human nature to go with the free things if they can get them. I doubt there will ever be zero free party places on the grid ergo it will be almost impossible to get the majority to pay. The clubs that really encourage this change will be the ones who offer something more that is attractive and will encourage them to pay - which was my starting premise.

Come to Senoritas, Friday night, 9PM .... Isla de Texas

I host the party there every week and have been doing so for quite some time now. Nobody *EVER* tipped me as the host. So I had to get on stage and dance. It does make it a little more difficult to keep up with the dancing, the chatter, the banter, etc, as well as the behind-the-scenes things that I'm doing as the host.

I hire a DJ for the event and pay her quite well. She also gets 100% of her tips. There is no house rake on her tips.

I have a stage full of dancers who do more than just hit the dance animation and disapper. The dancers **ENTERTAIN** the patrons with their playful banter, their emoting, their own special dances and animations, etc. They play with each other on stage and have a great time. The dancers buy special outfits for the stage and themed events. The dancers buy their own dances and animations.

I don't pay them a DIME. They work strictly on tips, and the house takes a small cut. So, after the money they put out for clothes, props, animations, dances, etc ... plus their entertaining nature, why shouldn't they be tipped?

Sure, the "camping" dancers ... I wouldn't tip them. But *MY* girls earn every Linden they receive. Come see the difference.

Come to the party tonight, and tell me they don't deserve tips.

/me 's head hits desk

Hello, everyone! If I don't have cash in pocket, I don't go to a club. I work as a dancer for my Linden money. I can't afford to buy it and the stipend at my level isn't all that high, maybe buys an outfit. Maybe. But on the other hand, I spend several hours every week or so creating emotes that I cut and paste as I'm dancing. I edit and customize them to fit the ongoing situation. I talk and joke with the staff and customers alike and try very hard to be entertaining. Most often I'm tipped from L$25 to L$100. I've walked away with less than L$50 for two hours work and I've walked away with more than L$1000. It depends on the crowd. Please understand that if the staff, that is, hosts, djs, dancers, whatever are actively trying to be entertaining or at least acting their part, please tip them whatever you can. Even a L$10 tip will get you a nice, big thank you from me anyday!

What is the rules on tipping Zombie Strippers?

L$50 + a healthy donation of brains

I work in a club as a dancer as well as run my own business so i don't really do it for the money i do it because i like to dance and i love the atmosphere.

I love talking to people, all us dancers have a laugh and we also try to include the people who come in.

Anyway we dancers do work hard to keep you entertained and we do invest in our wardrobe, skins and dances, i do tip the other dancers and the host and the DJ when we have one on.