sincere question about tipping in clubs

true, however let me relate this tidbit to you: i was short on Ls but decided to tip anyway, i did the math and saw that i was able to, at the time, to tip the hostess, dancers and even the DJ 75l apiece, cause i really was havin fun. one of the dancers gave it back with the retort that if i cant tip at least 200l, she aint interested. when i was able to tip more the next time i returned, she got nothing from me, the rest got 500l apiece, and a thanks for the fun(i should say i was under my alt, in both cases, and taking her for a test spin). thats why i say tip what you can afford, as was posted here, many will appreciate it. for those who want to be paid top Ls for mediocre performance, HA.

Hey ..

No one ever has to tip. Course no one ever has to have all the staff of a club calling them a cheapskate in the employee group IM either.

Well, where MY FRIEND dances occasionally, the house takes 20% of each tip individually (not sure how the script handles 1L but that would be interesting to find out) and there are set limit standard for taking your clothing off.

Like someone else mentioned here, when MY FRIEND gets less than the standard limit MY FRIEND actually feels bad for the guy tipping. MY FRIENDs hope is always that the customer is tipping her for the conversation and companiship she provided. A lot of guys want to talk in IM and MY FRIEND gets everything from Nut-jobs to the guy that just lost his girlfriend and everything inbetween. Try to keep 5 IM conversation going is difficult (or so I hear)!

So when MY FRIEND goes to a club and has exspectation, MY FRIEND will ask the dancer how much? MY FRIEND is more comforatable with that approach and so is the dancer. You would be surprized, MY FRIEND says that guys tell you they can get they total naked and play with there xcite for $300L - $600L. MY FRIEND would stick the amount in the jar and tell them to start peeling... slowly baby! *snicker*

If theirs good conversation with it, there is usually a bonus! or so MY FRIEND says.

JulieAnne

As a dancer if you tip me as little as 10L I'll be happy. It lets me know that I'm doing a good job and your entertained. The bigger the tip the harder I try for the person, because they are spending their money on me.

Reading through this thread I've come to realise that many people have no idea what it takes to be a dancer.

Its not just running some simple dance animation and chatting. You have to be able to read people and interact with them. On any given night while dancing I have about 8 IMs going at once talking to various people making friends and learning as much about them as I can. I usually focus my dancing on one person trying to make them feel special, and my emotes aren't some random script I run through either. I tailor them to the person based on the music, what they are wearing, and how receptive they are to the things I do.

Some folks like it when I get touchy, others just want me to back off and dance for them. As a dancer you have to know when to do what and also know where the line is.

Also, dancers aren't just pure profit machines either. I probably put more time and money into my outfits for all the various events then I make in tips for them. Most of us don't wear freebie clothes. We shop at places like Blaze, Kaliwulf, or Redgreaves. I don't think I've spent less then 800 on an outfit yet, and I'm a guy. Women tend to pay twice what I do on their clothes.

Sure some dancers are just going through the motions, but the good ones spend hours in preparation and work hard to make sure YOU are having fun, because if your having fun so are we.

As a former (sometimes current) dancer I can say tipping is just part of the game. Most people feel compelled to tip but in reality they are not.......well, to us dancers anyway. Some dancers are also escorts and the people who do that are almost always in it for the lindens so tipping might be considered a requirement........don't know, I've never gone that route. But even the escorts who are also dancing don't expect tips for just spinning on a pole and chatting, having a good, fun time. I've had nights where I've logged off after a couple hours with 5,000 more lindens than I had when I logged on and had less fun than the nights I logged off with as little as 0 lindens more. It's all about having fun, being entertained.........and believe me I've had so much fun chatting that I've returned tips because the "customer" entertained me more than I entertained "him".

Never feel guilty about not tipping........or tipping only a few lindens. If I wanted to make lindens, dancing would not be my method. I dancing is nothing more than a way to meet people and have fun. I've been in malls where a crowd of people happen to gather and a fun conversation gets going...........would anyone even think of tipping anyone there? Depends on the perspective I guess.

In SL nothing is ever considered work by some people unless:

a) its something that they think they can not do themselves .

b) its something that they do do themselves but takes time.



Whether or not they could do it themselves with any quality is immaterial.

Whether or not they are completely wrong about being able to do it themselves is also immaterial.

I consider the min tip 20L for dancer, host or DJ. Its about a penny or so RL money. I think one can afford that if the hosts, dancers or/and DJ are doing reasonable job. I feel 50L to 100L a agreeable amount for staff that is doing above average job. 100L+ for excellent job.

That said I swing my staff a extra hundred or three for the night if they had a off night and poor tips yet they were doing their best performance wise. We are not a strip club and have policies in place for what the block dancers can and can not do FWIW.

I do however beleive in rewarding my staff for effort on a off night. However, generally they do decent for a new club I think.

Well people who hangout at a club for months regularly without contributing finacially also have no business telling staff how the club should be run

Peggy, you sound like a nice person but I have to respectfully disagree with everything you say. I know you've been a dancer, but I suggest you go to some clubs and poll dancers whether they think tipping is important or not. I will also say it's incorrect to assume that most dancers are escorts. That may be your experience but it's the exact opposite of mine.

Most clubs I know of the owner takes a cut of the dancers tips so they aren't interested in any dancers whatsoever who aren't interested in getting tips.

Your mall analogy? That's just plain silly. Apples and oranges.

As far as the whole escort issue goes... I am but I am not an escort. I don't advertise it, and I don't try to work a lady up to it. But, if she asks me to go to one of the private rooms and we are having fun sometimes I'll oblige.

can I add my 2 lindens here.

As a former escort and a stripper on vacation, I say:

DO NOT GO TO STRIP CLUBS AND NOT TIP THE STRIPPERS (unless they are not entertaining you), that is just down right rude. But, IT IS OK TO GO TO REGULAR CLUBS AND NOT TIP THE STRIPPERS IF YOU DO NOT FEEL LIKE IT. There is a difference.

I will admit that I do enjoy the work that I do and did, but that is what it is "WORK". It is a paying position where many of us (as dancers) work soley for tips. I am not a volunteer. If I did not want to get tipped for my dances, I would simply pull out my "Carmel" dance click "play inworld", go to one of the free sex areas and volunteer my services.

For me personally, I will spread a little around to each tip jar in the form of the $L25 tips, just to see which ones may actually be interested in receiving more. Some seem to be either afk, or wrapped up in what is probably an endless bombardment of IM's, and others seem to want to get my attention and earn some more.

The problem comes in where it is obvious that some don't really put too much thought into their dances, or their outfits. I guess they think that I would just want to see the skin go to wind because I am another drooling guy that drags his knuckles across the ground as he walks into the establishment. So naturally, I don't pay much attention to them, nor will I tip them any further.

However, if a dancer has obviously put some thought into his or her entertainment, and/or knows how to grab my attention, they will probably receive far more for their efforts.

So, this is actually an interesting topic. I had a discussion with a scriptor yesterday and I was interested in using his services. I think he was charging me $15USD/ hour. That is what?... Roughly about 3750L/hour of this time.

So not to be rude but the reason I thought of this was, I was watching TV late last night and one of the advertizments was about a chat-line. Only $0.50/min (I couldn't read all the fine print) but that works out to about 125L/mins.

So, as the scriptor was explaining to me, there is NO difference between SL effort of work as compared to RL effort of work. And I have the option not to use his service.

Tip what you can.....

Well said Julie!!!

50 cents a minute? Damn, all the "chat-lines" I see are 1.99 or 2.99 / min. So uh what are you wearing right now?

/me rattles her tip jar!

Is that an innuendo?

actually, we do that incase your blind!

Yanno what really bugs me? ( I know, no one asked, but Im tellin anyway lol)

I hosted with a friend DJing the other night and for the 2 hour span she made almost 4 times what I did. Now, I understand some hosts just yell once in a while, but a good host chats with people, welcomes them when they get there, says bye when they leave, doesnt have long AFK moments (occasional, no biggie, everyone has to at one point or another) and the list goes on. I know how to host and I was chatting with everyone and worked my tush of. Biggest thing, I promote the dj and dancers to get some 'tip luvin' but....I suppose....I wasnt worth the same appriciation lol. Apparently if you are DJing or Dancing (dancer was on a pole, thats it, seriously) you get a LOT more in way of tips than the person hosting does.

I need to find a job as a dancer for pity sake, or learn how to DJ, hosting just doesnt seem to get the same tip luvin!

Good point!
I'm thoroughly confused why people go to a simulated chat room to listen to music they have little to no control over, that they end up just saying 'woot woot' or 'howwwlzz' in, and are expected to pay someone for the effort that this took to cook up.
I have a cafe, where nobody works but an occaisional DJ who has some very rare music that i can't get anywhere else, but only do the once a week party. It's a hangout, pure and simple. Nothing for sale, no ads, no sploders, no campers. I have the radios that allow for internet searches, so that you can tune in to hundreds of stations at your whim, and i actually hold real conversations there. I certainly don't demand tips there but have a jar out if one is so moved to contribute.
The only problem is that people come, see one or two people there, and leave before even venturing two steps. It's not that it's a bad build- it's an excellent build in fact. It's not due to lag and it's not that there's nothing to do/see. I think they are just starved for hordes of mindless 'wooters', which if that's the case, i'm not sad to see them go. I wonder how they visualize a cafe- if the expectation is a room packed full of eager chatters. But i digress from the subject of tipping...
Tipping the equivalent of one USD isn't really what it's cracked up to be. I see a lot of people treating 50L as though it were 50USD these days. Doesn't anyone "do the math" to realize they are giving away pocketchange? It's true that the DJ's and hosts work hard- and i've never seen one earn what they were truly worth. Giving them 1k isn't being Daddy Warbucks in all *reality*, it's barely buying them a RL drink, for their effort and investment that's pitifull. In light of this, i tend to work with DJ's who are in it for the fun of it, and i host myself for the same reasons. This eases the tension in a similar way that shopping in stores that don't give their salespeople commission does. I might say once during an event to please tip the DJ, but i leave that up to them, and feel that it only creates an atmosphere of guilt when i do. I'd rather people feel welcomed and relaxed than have their 1.78 any day personally.
I have a cafe because a)i have a related business nearby and b)i'm part of an active doll community who sometimes wants a hangout and c) i just like it. I look at tips more as a vote of confidence, not as a way to actually profit (it covers less than one percent of my tier) and would not be offended if someone only gave one single linden.

Thank you.........I think I'm a nice person too. And I see that you disagree with me. No harm in that at all. But, I do not need to go the clubs and poll the dancers to find out that most are there for the tips. Actually, I am too (when I dance) but my point (the part you missed I guess) is that a lot of dancer, excluding the escorts/dancers, are pretty much just like me. They are parked on a dance pole playing stripper for the pure fun of it as much as they are there for the tips...........but I'm talking about the fun dancers. The ones who make pretty good tips but not excessive amounts of tips. I can't brag about 1000 linden nights (though I've had a few......even one 5000 linden night). I've had a fair share of 500 linden nights but a ton of 100 or less nights.........and never "worked" for even one of those lindens. I put myself up there because I wanted to chat and be silly with anyone who was interested........the peeling off of the sexy outfit was expected and I did it. But never at some minimum met before hand. At my whim or for some specific "friend" is when I did that. It was fun...........not work. Call if easy money if you want.

I know very well what nearly every club in SL requires of the dancers in the way of tips. They all take a percentage of the tips.......10 to 20% in fact. I did my part about "making" money for the owners. I was (am) quite popular and every owner has been very happy with my performance. I think the attitude I have about dancing and tipping me for that dancing is the secret why I do pretty good at it. My first 14 or 15 months in SL my dancing tips enabled me to buy approximately 20 high quality skins (ranging in price from 1000 to 4000 lindens). My weekly stipend of 500 linden does not quite cover that. Yes, I'm grandfathered in at 500 L stipend. And I have only purchase lindens three times..........never more than 20 USD's worth at any time.

The mall analogy may be silly to you but it is not apples and oranges. I have been in a mall and struck up conversations with people and had a blast being silly and laughing just like I do in the club parked on a pole. The chat was not riske like in the club but every bit as much fun and entertaining. Same goes for non-strip clubs that I frequent (and not employed). I've been told that I'm as much fun as the DJ or Host. But does even one person think of tipping me? No..........I wouldn't accept it if they did anyway. It's your perspective. It's a game. You playing the life of the party or you playing the entertainment object on a pole. Tipping while on a pole is expected. Tipping just having fun is not. But, it's the same for me.......not speck of difference. So say again. Tip if you want. Tip as much as you want. But, never feel obligated to tip anything at all.......and your reasons for not doing so can as simple as you just don't want to. It's not going to hurt my feelings nor will it affect the way I interact with you.

And, Bradley, I'm not alone on this. Been doing it a long time. I do know quite a few "strippers". The ones who "work" at it don't last for some reason. They find something more profitable to do if they want real lindens for their efforts.

Isa, if you haven't been to an SL strip club yet, I'd like to suggest that this could be the next group outing. Think of the potential for fun and debauchery.

This is how I tip:

I always tip the venue "help pay the tier" tip jar, especially if it's somewhere I frequent.

I always tip the host/hostess, especially if it is a special event.

DJ's: Yep - if they are hired especially for the event, I will tip way more.

Dancers: Yep, just as a general rule. If they are exotic dancers and I get personal attention, as in great conversation, then of course they get a larger tip. But usually, before I go I will tip all the dancers a bit - they are working after all.

Live musicians usually get the highest tips from me.


my 2 cent

Thanks to everyone who's contributed so far, and I hope that adding in an owner's perspective to this debate won't get me shot down in flames.

I own/run/manage and lose sleep over a club in SL - a nice little formal place without none of yer pole dancing admittedly. I also have a wonderful team of 7 hostesses (bless you all, ladies) who run our events, ranging from Trivia nights where they go out and research all the questions and then pose them through themed contest nights and also your basic standard formal balls. And I must say that they all operate their events to a level of professionalism and with a level of pride and obvious enthusiasm which has drawn me compliments more than once from other business owners.

We've been up and running for 11 months now, and although we don't - and probably never will - feature in popular places, the steady and loyal client base seem to enjoy themselves.

But in terms of the tipping debate, I have always considered it to be an irritation to the patrons of any club to be solicited for tips, or to be made to feel guilty if they don't tip the hostess. With this in mind, I have made sure that I pay my ladies above the going rate, in such a way that they don't NEED to supplement their incomes with tips and gratuities. We've never had a personal tipjar in the place, and although there's a "call to woot" at the end of a particular hostess's event, that's as far as it goes.

Where I'm leading to in this is - should more owners take a similar approach, and look after their personnel properly to begin with, thus making sure that they're (a) happy and motivated in what they do and (b) not putting the patrons under pressure to tip?

I just want to add my $L2 to this. I'm still fairly new to SL, and I've gone to a few (music) clubs, though not that many. I may be very naive, but until recently I had NO idea that the only reason people are friendly to you in a club is because they hope for some money in return... Sorry, but that, to me, is incredibly distateful (and if I'm the only person who feels that way, so be it, but I should add that I found it very very heartening to read the comments of those who are friendly because they enjoy it). Maybe it's because I'm not from the US, and tipping is not so much part of the culture here.

I can understand tipping the DJ, especially if they play a request (though when I was newer, that's not something I was really aware of - I really do think it's a culture thing - and I'm learning...)... If that's what clubbing is like in SL, yes, I will stick to listening to the radio.

But tipping anybody else? Why couldn't I pay an entrance fee instead? To me, that would be sending the very clear message that the club/ live venue is a business, which I guess it has to be at least to a degree, because of tier/ rental fees or whatever, presumably? Then I can decide wether I can "afford" to visit the club or not, just like RL (different criteria, yes, but same principle). Again, maybe it's a cultural thing.

Are there places out there with an entrance fee and no tipping jars? or are the profits much greater with the tipping jars system, because of some kind of psychological pressure (ie people tipping much more than they would pay as in entrance fees, because they don't want to appear miserly?), and that's why it's so prevalent?

And - to Subversive and David: would love to visit your places, are they easy to find?